Requests For Competition Tweaks

(Dashiva) #1

First, let me apologize if this has been discussed before, it’s been ages since I’ve posted on the SD forums and though I’ve read through a few threads there’s a good possibility that I’m repeating someone’s idea.

My background: I’ve played class based FPS games since RtCW, which means everything from old school Wolf to ET to Quakewars and now Wolfenstein (which I’m also a league admin for) in some of the upper eschelons of competition. Unfortunately Wolfenstein MP is not even remotely what I’d consider a fun or competitive game at the moment, and it’s basically dead in the water, less than 100 people are playing it online at any given moment a week and a half after launch. This is currently being rectified in WolfPro, but the damage is done. That said ever since ET (or even RtCW really, which I still consider to be the high point in MP gaming) I haven’t really felt like there’s been a successful class/objective based FPS, and this feeling has included QuakeWars. I’ve had a lot of fun times playing QW but given the spam (I have nightmares that include the sound of the hyperblaster winding up behind me) it’s not a game that has lent itself to real competition like we had in RtCW or ET. Both went for 15 or so seasons, QW is having its last at season 4.

That said I think that QuakeWars could have been a contender given the success of etqwpro. Had it been released at the time of launch or some of its features incorporated in the game from the get go the competitive community might not have abandoned the game so quickly. I am really excited for Brink, it seems like it has incorporated a lot of the good ideas that QW brought to the table and stands to really move the genre forward. So, that being said, here are a few easy to implement ideas for brink that I think can help make it a competitive success from day 1.

  1. Tweakable spam cvars. Make common gameplay conditions controllable by serverside settings. This includes things like number of deployables, active vehicles, number of spammable weapons (think hyperblaster or rifle grenade) or artillery fire. Also, have these options on ranked servers so players can choose whether they’d like to play with full settings or not. If I had to choose only one thing on this list to get implemented this would be it.

  2. Fix the shot reg/lag issues. I can’t count how many times in an idtech4 game I’ve hit people and hit people and hit people and

  3. Brink.TV. QuakeWars had a tv setting and it was one of the things the game really did right.

  4. A process by which custom maps can be approved for ranked play. As with #1 bringing the whole community together on ranked servers would be a plus and reduce the fragmentation of the game.

  5. Competition graphics settings that are easily accessible in menus. Things like r_unlock_maxfps and r_threadedrender. Give everyone the advantage a good config gives players who choose to plumb the depths of the engine.

  6. In game clan matching. Got 5 friends on line? Why go to irc or xfire when you can setup a match in game? QuakeWars’ buddy system was one of its high points, and this would make it even better.

  7. An autodownload system. From the start. Wolfenstein does not have this and it has killed the game because nobody can download Wolfpro automagically.

  8. Extend the beta to entire teams. I had an invite to the closed beta of QW and I put off playing the game for a year because of the experience because the balance issues weren’t addressed. Having experienced teams scrim the game will work out balance issues. The Mp43 in Wolfenstein comes to mind.

Anyhow, I hope this reaches the ears (or eyes) of Splash Damage. I think Brink has great potential and I hope it can be the game that everyone (both casual and competition players) wants it to be.

(Loffy) #2

QW is quake world. :smiley:

(acidrain) #3

Queue the competition vs. casual player argument… now.

(Dashiva) #4

There’s no argument. I’m just asking for the tools to accommodate the competition crowd to be included in the game. Having lots of teams playing increases the number of people on servers and makes for success.

(DarkangelUK) #5

Do you think it’s maybe a little early for requests/demands? At this point you’ve seen screenshots, a shoddy phone camera clip of the demo, or if you’re lucky, managed to make it to see a demo in person. You’ve got no idea how the game plays, could be the absolute opposite of a competition game (RPG elements, consistent XP and upgrades would uneven clans that don’t practice as much as others), it could be the worst game you’ve ever played :slight_smile: All anyone’s seen at the moment is an alpha… you could be requesting stuff for a game you’ll never even buy cos at this point, i dont think anyone’s really seen enough to make an informed decision.

(Dashiva) #6

Granted I’m assuming a lot. I’ve several friends who were at the quakecon demo, so I have a small idea of what the game is like based on a few limited first hand accounts. These suggestions work for any multiplayer FPS, though, so I don’t think you should discount them. It might be completely different, but given the last two games SD has released and what I’ve heard from people who have seen the game, it’s reasonable to expect a certain type of game.

(Nail) #7

Well, you all know my feelings on the subject but BrinkTV for sure

(Feelgood) #8

Well until Dashiva gets past his Chicago lag bots, it wont really matter. :smiley: He can’t really compete with that triple digit ping. :eek:

(Nail) #9

“8. Extend the beta to entire teams. I had an invite to the closed beta of QW and I put off playing the game for a year because of the experience because the balance issues weren’t addressed. Having experienced teams scrim the game will work out balance issues. The Mp43 in Wolfenstein comes to mind.”

This point I’d have to strongly disagree with, while league players should definitely be involved with any competition settings (server cvar restrictions) I can’t see them being any use to the seamless single player to multiplayer aspect that the game has. This isn’t RTCW 2 (no, I don’t mean Wolfenstein)

btw, It sounds like you played the QW beta, didn’t like it and then went a year before playing again when you might have joined the community and made suggestions of what to fix, forgive me if I read it wrong, but not a team player imho

(DarkangelUK) #10

As far as I’m aware, there were quite a few clans in the ET:QW beta, and rather than use their scrims and clan wars to give feedback, they used them to create tactics before the game was released to give them the upper hand in up-coming leagues… and gave very little feedback at all, most gave absolutely none at all. That was after they would hijack servers, kick users, stack on normal pub games etc… you know, the usual clan stuff.

To put it politely, they had their chance with ET:QW and screwed it up.

(Shiv) #11

There was a clan call out for help in the qw beta, the lucky teams where among the first to try it.
i remember playing css and hearing about it :\

(Nail) #12

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;196975]As far as I’m aware, there were quite a few clans in the ET:QW beta, and rather than use their scrims and clan wars to give feedback, they used them to create tactics before the game was released to give them the upper hand in up-coming leagues… and gave very little feedback at all, most gave absolutely none at all. That was after they would hijack servers, kick users, stack on normal pub games etc… you know, the usual clan stuff.

To put it politely, they had their chance with ET:QW and screwed it up.[/QUOTE]

yepper, pretty much my take on it too

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #13

-Get a quality game out first.
-Get the SDK out quickly, even in rough form. Let the community make a competition mod and let the game devs work on fixing problems with the core game.
-Or if a proven modder is willing, give them a sneak peak so they can put in the most basic competition settings soon after release.

If a game is successful enough it will have modders willing to put in the time. If not, it’s not work wasting dev time on a mod that nobody will play.

(Joe999) #14

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;196975]As far as I’m aware, there were quite a few clans in the ET:QW beta, and rather than use their scrims and clan wars to give feedback, they used them to create tactics before the game was released to give them the upper hand in up-coming leagues… and gave very little feedback at all, most gave absolutely none at all. That was after they would hijack servers, kick users, stack on normal pub games etc… you know, the usual clan stuff.

To put it politely, they had their chance with ET:QW and screwed it up.[/QUOTE]

yeah, one of my favs was when they vote-kicked players of other clans from their beta games and said it was because they were “spying” on their tactics … and that in a beta where they’re supposed to help improve the game :rolleyes:

(Dashiva) #15

[QUOTE=Nail;196933]
btw, It sounds like you played the QW beta, didn’t like it and then went a year before playing again when you might have joined the community and made suggestions of what to fix, forgive me if I read it wrong, but not a team player imho[/QUOTE]

I did give suggestions to the devs, lots of them. I was in the closed beta, and by the open beta the game was in a state where I wasn’t really interested in playing it. When etqwpro came out I started enjoying it again. Your pretentiousness and backhanded comments really undermine what’s supposed to be a constructive thread.

(Zhou Yu) #16

To be fair Dashiva, I got a similar impression and the clans that were invited to the ET:QW beta did give astonishingly little feedback for their playtime, outside of a few notable exceptions.

Still doesn’t need to cause angst now though.

Otherwise though, in order:

1, I agree with to an extent, though I think its a little early to decide there is a desperate need for it now.
2, 3 and 4 are simply no-brainers
5 is a fair point, things shouldn’t be hidden away beyond more than an “advanced options” button if they can be accessed through the console (obviously common sense needs to be applied here somewhat).
6 would be very nice indeed. Even though World In Conflict was not a massive success, it still had one of the very best clan support systems I have seen with a really intelligent and efficient clan manager and clan-match system. It was easy enough that me and a couple of friends, none of whom have ever played anything competitively, were able to have some amazing skirmish games.
7 would be another no-brainer and 8 I have addressed above.

(Nail) #17

“It sounds like” and “forgive me if I read it wrong” are neither “pretentiousness” nor “backhanded” comments.
Quite a few of us have had, let’s say “bad experiences” with many of the clans involved in the beta

(Joe999) #18

well, “remove the vehicles” and the likes wasn’t really constructive feedback :rolleyes:

(aimology) #19

Basically, I agree with Dashiva… No offense, but Darkangel needs to shut his mouth. nothing but utter garbage has spewed out of it and pointless rambling from day 1.

The fact of the matter is no company has made a “newer” game that has been good for the regular gaming community and competitive gaming community recently in the past 3 years except for team fortress 2 ( valve ) and call of duty series ( activision ) .

quake 4 was a utter shit until they patched it, which took over 7 months to make it right ( majority of community was dead by then

call of duty 5 ( made by console idiots ) was complete crap

wolfenstein 2 is utter garbage for pubbers and competition

quakewars ( I was in the beta ) was garbage. The majority of the teams that played the game just for quakecon didnt even like it. They played it because no one else played it and were able to compete at the stupid tournament

unreal tournament 3? Lets be serious

doom 3? LOL

Rage is gonna be a joke as far as competition is concerned, read and its easily seen.

So it comes down to two games

brink and cod mw2 unless you wanna play starcraft 2 ( weee clicking buttons ) or diable 3 ( weee smashing keyboard to do stuff ) Dont know about you, but I like to actually aim at people.

This needs to have a beta for a select few known gamers ( some pubbers ) to get idea’s from both sides added into the game. A pub friendly game sells huge ( tf2 prime example ) but it should have the “options” for the competition side of things, which also sells huge numbers also because of word of mouth ( cod series / cs:s prime example ) both games sold huge because it had the option to being tweaked for full blown out competition, but also has the pubbing ability… word of mouth spread all over and bam the games are hits. Dont you think cod mw2 will sell HUGE even though cod 5 was total crap? Of course, because people know from word of mouth how big the game is and good activision is…

It should have specific options / features for both worlds that can easily be enabled. I want them to succeed on all levels. I want them make a well made game for us competition gamers, and a good game for them too profit from, from the every day pubber.

For someone to say its too early to ask for stuff now, has no clue about making a perfect product.

" Hey, Dont ask for nothing before the product is made because you might just get it "

Nice philosophy .

Where did you learn that one?

I’ve been gaming for over 12 years, have been in the higher invite and professional leagues for 8 games, I have played another 3 games just for fun and have beta tested 5. I would really like if this company would actually listen to the community some what, BEFORE yes angelUK, BEFORE the game is released.

  1. If its shit the day its released ( cod 5 / wolfenstein / doom 3 ) it will be spread via word of mouth how bad it is and wont sell or have a community 2 begin with. Even if you update / patch it. ( q4 / qwars examples )

  2. It will need less “patchs” and “fixes” from the start to be league ready, which means it will bring in top clans from the NA point of view ( pandemic / doctors / complexity or whatever ) which means people will say, " omg the game must be good lets buy it and try it " its all about word of mouth these days for the computer people.

  3. Your sequels will sell alot and you have a chance as a community to “de-thron” the cod series as the series to beat ( cs does not count )

  4. Alot of people from multiple communities ( Im very active in alot ) are just WAITING for a new game to take over their passion to play something new is there, you just have to make that game and bam you have a huge hit.

Making suggestions and ideas of what you would like to see now Must be said, so maybe they will actually listen and think about those idea’s… We dont need anything over the top, its been done before in all these games and guess what? They suck. Its too much… We want a good game, with smooth netcode and replayability ( alot of map choices or ways for people to create maps ) fast paced, in your face action…

You guys should have a poll or a open beta, months before release to start pulling in real ideas and games, as soon as you have made it too a “beta” stage. Word of mouth is what sell’s " computer " games these days.

(Joe999) #20

hu? what about me? am i not worth offending? makes me kinda sad :frowning: