Requests For Competition Tweaks

[aimology]

1. Biggest thing I would like to see is a sweet netcode. Something where a 100 ping player can still compete with a 55 / 75 pinger. Where bullets register great. I myself have never had this problem, but I also ping good every where. I do know alot of people have this problem and its ashame.

2. Fast paced, you have the right modes going in. I would suggest not doing things to slowing it down … Like adding iron sight, rtcw didnt need it, this game doesnt need it. Just make the recoil some what big and you have to actually control the spread. 3 bullet burst from a distance and pulling the gun down up close. That would be sweet.

3. vehicles suck, pretty sure tihs isnt a race car game and nobody that buys this game cares for vehicles, otherwise they would be buying bf1942 which actually implemented them the correct way ( even though I hate that game )

4. make it spectator friendly, this is a huge selling point. being able to spectate the game and making demos is a must have, unless you wanna be like f.e.a.r and fail miserably after a few months of release ( where nobody buys your sequel )

5. I understand you’re gonna add perks and all that crap you think is “cool” but seriously we dont need it, so let me make a simply idea for you. Make it so we can disable it for leagues, pretty sad we have to constantly rely on coders in the communities to do your job… You make the money, We spend the money can we get what we want for once?

Those are just simply request, nothing major… Game is not made yet so obviously cant go into details, but those are things I know the “majority” want too see… I know the majority of people just want something fast paced, alot of “teamwork”, yet vanilla aka simple. We dont care about money to buy perks, we dont care about “leveling” up ( yes pubbers do thats cool ) but you can always have a simple add-on ( disable perks ) and there ya go done deal, weeeeeeeeeeeee

anyways… Make a beta and I will direct you to emails of some of the finest gamers in the U.S from
quake
call of duty
1.6
team fortress 2

so you can get idea’s and we together can do this right.

Keep people like darkangel from speaking their input. People like him have been making companies like you… Make awful games for the past 3? 4? years… Its been so long I cant remember…

Aimology 101

#brink @gamesurge network

[aimology]

hu? what about me? am i not worth offending? makes me kinda sad

No, because you made a valid point. You simply said … to sum it up

" If you play a beta, make valid points / comments to help fix the game "

I do think what you said was pretty stupid though, because you have no idea what he said in the “beta” forums, so what you said was pointless and makes no sense

Did you see what he posted in the quakewar forums? No you didnt, shit I was in the beta and I didnt see what he posted. I know alot of us posted alot of useful stuff…

Me
Sabotage from team paradigm
Hollywood from teamHOT ( quakecon team )
viD from team 20id ( bf 1942 and tf2 )

are just some, and we have all played for great teams in multiple games, its not our fault they waited so long to fix the problems before the “release” is it?

“We” as a community can only try to help, we cant make them do it, we can only point them in the right direction.

Its getting very very old too.

[DarkangelUK]

Wait, so you’re allowed vomit complete crap cos you believe your view is what makes a game and you have no idea what an ‘opinion’ is? In any beta i’ve been in the clan view is ‘make a game we want’, and when that doesn’t get done, it’s stomp and whine and “this game is crap” then like a wretched scourge you all inhabit another beta and start spewing the same crap you just did now.

I was one of the very 1st into the ETQW beta, and the clan feedback and general behaviour was atrocious. And of course as soon as anyone pointed this one, people like yourself would start shouting obscenities as if what you had to say was worth a damn.

Sorry m8 but with that wall of crap above you’re just proving my point, clannies are pretentious prats that can’t see past their own noses.

Oh yeah, i’ll keep mouthing off… just cos I can

EDIT: And oh, all my points were based on FACT (cos i was there), your points are based on the small mind of a child gamer

[namlot]

[QUOTE=aimology;197095]
2) Fast paced, you have the right modes going in. I would suggest not doing things to slowing it down … Like adding iron sight, rtcw didnt need it, this game doesnt need it. Just make the recoil some what big and you have to actually control the spread. 3 bullet burst from a distance and pulling the gun down up close. That would be sweet. [/QUOTE]

I agree with not slowing the game down… but not in this way, we have already been told it’s being made fast-paced, hence the SMART button, but have also been told Brink is likely (certain??) to have iron sights and quite ‘precise’ shooting.

[DarkangelUK]

Let’s look at my points for ETQW when i was in the beta.

My testing was all on movement since that’s what I do, i wanted it kept fast, i wanted ramping increased, the kick for EMP nades left in, hops on slopes introduced ET style and more map specific jumps kept in that couldn’t be accessed by vehicles. I left the competition feedback to the clannies cos that wasn’t my thing. None of them provided much feedback beyond “remove vehicles”, this was on observation made by developers as well as regulars who played. The behaviour observed by the clan players again was observed by devs as well as regular players. Get your head out the clouds m8 and post facts… ive not seen one yet

[aimology]

Do you think it’s maybe a little early for requests/demands? At this point you’ve seen screenshots, a shoddy phone camera clip of the demo, or if you’re lucky, managed to make it to see a demo in person. You’ve got no idea how the game plays, could be the absolute opposite of a competition game (RPG elements, consistent XP and upgrades would uneven clans that don’t practice as much as others), it could be the worst game you’ve ever played All anyone’s seen at the moment is an alpha… you could be requesting stuff for a game you’ll never even buy cos at this point, i dont think anyone’s really seen enough to make an informed decision.

Pretty sure if you know how to read, you can see the game is going to be fast paced. So what you’ve said makes no sense.

1. there are classes, this has been stated. Soldier / medic / LT / CO OPS ( names might change, but there are classes

2. there are mods stopwatch / objective ( the ones I care only to mention ) that have been said, which means its going to be “competitive” offense and defense

3. there are weapons / guns and FPS control-ability, which means its a FPS game… That doesnt means it will make teams more “advanced” that play more. The game will be tweaked either modded by them ( disable ability server side ) or by a community modder, for league play.

4. Its faster paced, they said they dont want vehicles because they want Boot to Boot combat, and not firing at tin cans " vehicles "

why even post if you dont even understand the game they are making?

Im wondering have you played any game at a high level? If so, what team? what game…
What is your gaming experience?

you might find that irrelevant, but by your postings you seem to be a older man, probably in his 30’s… That just read the forums, buy random games and play for fun and post just for the sake of posting… Ok… This is all fine and dandy, but dont try to step into a conversation you dont understand, which is someone ( dashiva ) who is asking for stuff that alot of people from the “COMPETITIVE” side would like to see. Stay out of it and stick to talking about how cool it is that the character blows up and bleeds apple sauce, or how the mp43 looks like a squirt gun, or how you can crouch and wobble around a corner… Stick to what you know man… The basic stuff

[aimology]

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;197099]Let’s look at my points for ETQW when i was in the beta.

My testing was all on movement since that’s what I do, i wanted it kept fast, i wanted ramping increased, the kick for EMP nades left in, hops on slopes introduced ET style and more map specific jumps kept in that couldn’t be accessed by vehicles. I left the competition feedback to the clannies cos that wasn’t my thing. None of them provided much feedback beyond “remove vehicles”, this was on observation made by developers as well as regulars who played. The behaviour observed by the clan players again was observed by devs as well as regular players. Get your head out the clouds m8 and post facts… ive not seen one yet[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure vehicles are being removed because they see this as a problem and know its not the direction to go

Im also pretty sure when we gave advice on the forums it had to do with…

Hit box locations
Netcode Problems
Reload times
jumping / sprinting errors
Defuse times
many other items, this are just a few, majority of us did not buy the retail version after beta, because we knew it was bad… People bought and told us it was just like beta and bam, game hardly sold ( word of mouth ) interesting…

Looks like you’re just copying what joe said about “removing vehicles” if you were actually on the beta forums, you would know there was alot said. If this has open beta, I guarantee an ACTIVE beta / testing from the U.S side of things. If Im involved.

Im looking forward to this game, I want it made good.

[Rahdo]

Don’t worry, Aim, I do fully plan to listen and be responsive to the competitive community too (for the reasons you very nicely point out in your reply to Joe & Dark, in the non-toasty parts ). The ET’s wouldn’t be as successful as they have been without that fanbase. Still, no need to tell anyone to shut up. Everyone’s opinion is valid here, as far as I’m concerned.

[Slade05]

“Keep people like darkangel from speaking their input. People like him have been making companies like you… Make awful games for the past 3? 4? years… Its been so long I cant remember…”

That is a competition scene for you SD. So correct, no ego at all and always open for innovation.
Does anybody here aside from crossfire twerps really believe you could please THAT audience, no matter what you do?

[Joe999]

I do think what you said its pretty stupid though, because you have no idea what he said in the “beta” forums, so what you said was pointless and makes no sense

that’s because it doesn’t matter what he said back then. but it matters what he says here:

I did give suggestions to the devs, lots of them. I was in the closed beta, and by the open beta the game was in a state where I wasn’t really interested in playing it. When etqwpro came out I started enjoying it again. Your pretentiousness and backhanded comments really undermine what’s supposed to be a constructive thread.

there are 2 implications to this:

1. sd did listen and all his suggestions lead to the fact that the game turned out to be not his type of game, so everything he said was bad
2. sd didn’t listen to what he said and he’s the best game designer ever in his opinion. well, if that’s the case, he should create his own gaming company and show how to make a game instead of showing his ability to play a computer game and to pick out things from previous games.

it’s always the same with people like him. i don’t say that there aren’t valid points in what people bring up. but there also should be considered that game devs are designing a game with a certain direction in mind which has to be considered as well. mentioned “removing vehicles” in a vehicle based game isn’t really something that’s helpful.

Make it so we can disable it for leagues, pretty sad we have to constantly rely on coders in the communities to do your job… You make the money, We spend the money can we get what we want for once?

good example of the attitude of “pro” gamers and their “constructive” contributions. see what i mean?

[aimology]

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;197097]Wait, so you’re allowed vomit complete crap cos you believe your view is what makes a game and you have no idea what an ‘opinion’ is? In any beta i’ve been in the clan view is ‘make a game we want’, and when that doesn’t get done, it’s stomp and whine and “this game is crap” then like a wretched scourge you all inhabit another beta and start spewing the same crap you just did now.

I was one of the very 1st into the ETQW beta, and the clan feedback and general behaviour was atrocious. And of course as soon as anyone pointed this one, people like yourself would start shouting obscenities as if what you had to say was worth a damn.

Sorry m8 but with that wall of crap above you’re just proving my point, clannies are pretentious prats that can’t see past their own noses.

Oh yeah, i’ll keep mouthing off… just cos I can

EDIT: And oh, all my points were based on FACT (cos i was there), your points are based on the small mind of a child gamer[/QUOTE]

Lets Take a look at some of that well educated thought out questions from “facts” you came up with shall we…

“ever cared about was the main objective and the small XP gains for side missions never really made me want to go ahead with them. Now the fact that XP is persistent now will hopefully make me want to participate with the smaller side missions, and get me out of the “there is one main objective, it MUST be done” mindset.”

( So you wanna have fun and run around doing side missions instead of competition to set a time or doing a main objective? k, so basically no league play for you )

“I’d like to see a novel released that gives us an in-depth look of the entire story line. The Halo series, regardless of gameplay, totally suckered me in with the story. I’ve played all the games more for the story than the action itself. I’ve read all of the Halo books to date (well part way through The Cole Protocol), and it’s the depth to the Halo universe keeps bringing me back.”

( interesting, looks like you rather read the book then play the game, maybe pick up harry potter trilogy instead? Im just sayin… )

"Are the weapons customisable just like the characters? (visually i mean, paint job etc) "

( We all know how important eye candy is, I mean if my gun isnt pink with tiny little fairies on it, I might miss my target … Solid question)

“Will there be achievements included on the other platforms if they’re in the 360 version? Seems to be a popular thing these days. Will it also be a Games for Windows game?”

( Achievements are awesome, I like being able to play 100 hours and getting to level 80 like Im playing world of warcraft, so I can add that extra flank jacket and juggernaut feature… If it wasnt for that I wouldnt play, I need those “special” items)

I can see what direction you’re going. Ya, do us “the competitive” side of the community a favor, stay out of those conversations, because thats not your thing. Especially when you mentioned in quakewars ( you stayed out of the clan stuff ) in beta.
Stick to the pretty colors
Tattoos
and weight limits of the toons. More on your level my friend

[tokamak]

Look, side missions aren’t just bonuses to play with if you’re bored, most alternative objectives in Quake Wars had huge effect in the overall game. They allowed vehicles to enter certain areas, opened up new routes, gave mounted machine guns and provided you with important spawn points. Games are won or lost on these things. Doing them just for the xp bonus is a very silly reason, you want to do them even if they had no reward.

That brings me to another point. EVERYTHING you do in a game should be important enough to do even if they had no xp reward. You’re not leaving that soldier who died during a charge plant lying around if reviving him gave no reward, you’re not letting enemy players walk around if kill them suddenly isn’t rewarded any more.

Xp is there to reward players for being useful and contributing towards winning the game. In fact, people doing things only for the xp is one of the bigger problems in Quake Wars, because some things gave too much xp, this resulted in statpadders, players flying around spawnpoints just destroying deployables while the air support was desperately needed somewhere else.

[QUOTE=aimology;197101]Pretty sure vehicles are being removed because they see this as a problem and know its not the direction to go
[/QUOTE]

No they left it out because they went for a totally different scale of warfare then Quake Wars.

[Slade05]

As if he hears you, Gorker.

[Rahdo]

As to the 5 Aim points:

1. netcode… yeah, better is good I’m a caveman though, so this is beyond my simple ken to talk about. I do hope for the smoothest experience for everyone. The best thing I can do about it though is design the interface for getting into games in such a way that it minimizes the worst problems. Coders would have to comment on the rest though…

2. i’d defintiely say we’ll be faster paced than some of our competetion. But I have to say right now, I doubt we’ll ever be as fast paced as W:ET, out of the box. Games of that ilk are just too crazy crazy fast for a broader market to be able to deal with, and it is important to us to make a game that works equally well for pubbing and scrimming. However, I’ll never understand the ironsight hate. You slow yourself down to get more accuracy. In W:ET you do the same thing with crouching, no? That said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that you can still play effectively firing from the hip. That’s a totally reasonable expectation for the game

3. well, i will admit that I do like vehicles, but they’re not right for what this game is all about (intimate, up close, infantry combat)

4. yeah, this is on the list of stuff that’s being worked on

5. agreed – well, not that it’s “crap” (I love that stuff), but that it does need to be toggleable for competitive stuff…

[Rahdo]

guy guys guys! can we cool down? please, do it for me? people on both sides are being a bit heated and egging each other on (i.e. “vommiting crap” “shut up” etc.). we don’t need to do that. can a brother get a hand shake? (or a fist bump will suffice)?

[darthmob]

You know what one big problem is aimology, people - especially the competitive community - can’t adapt.

You won’t see any game like those on idtech3 anymore. And yet everytime a new game gets released on idtech the same complaints come up. Remove iron sights, enable strafejumping, enable sprint + shoot, bring in hitscan weapons and remove random spread. You have to face it, it just won’t happen!

I have to agree on one thing: if a game is supposed to attract the competitive crowd it has to do that from the very beginning. If server binaries, sdk and basic competitive features get released weeks after the game then it’s most likely already doomed. Q4, ETQW and Wolfenstein speak for themselves.

PS: The difference in netcode between beta and release client of ETQW were like day and night. It got further improved in one of the patches as well. But then it was already too late for the impatient.

[aimology]

[QUOTE=Joe999;197104]that’s because it doesn’t matter what he said back then. but it matters what he says here:

there are 2 implications to this:

1. sd did listen and all his suggestions lead to the fact that the game turned out to be not his type of game, so everything he said was bad
2. sd didn’t listen to what he said and he’s the best game designer ever in his opinion. well, if that’s the case, he should create his own gaming company and show how to make a game instead of showing his ability to play a computer game and to pick out things from previous games.

it’s always the same with people like him. i don’t say that there aren’t valid points in what people bring up. but there also should be considered that game devs are designing a game with a certain direction in mind which has to be considered as well. mentioned “removing vehicles” in a vehicle based game isn’t really something that’s helpful.

good example of the attitude of “pro” gamers and their “constructive” contributions. see what i mean? :)[/QUOTE]

I dont consider myself a “pro” gamer. I dont think there are many professional gamers. I consider myself someone who likes to compete at a higher level then just your daily pubber.

I dont know if that last point is sarcastic or not, but I dont have an attitude. I give alot of constructive feedback. I dont think its fair the community always has to “fix” a game to an EXTREMELY high level. They make the money, not us.

Some things like “netcode” … " hitboxs "… “registration tweaking” … graphic tweaking “entirely” should not have to be fixed by the community. Thats a fact. I dont recall old games from RTCW and older being worked on constantly. Yes config tweaks and special mods came out, but not entire cvar list / hitbox and registration tweaks were made. Its been that case for the past what? 5 years or so. Those are just must haves in a game. Dashiva was simply asking for some things that would be nice to have, nothing wrong with that.
He also might of point relevant comments on the QUAKEWARS forums. For you to state there are 2 implications is also pretty stupid. They most likely didnt listen to what he asked, and his idea’s might be the best idea’s out there, but to say he should start a company is pretty retarded. Funny how when CS 1.6 community said stuff and made their own shit. Valve listened and its the biggest FPS game played to this date and its how old? But hey, the idea’s came from someone like Dashiva who posted on the forums and bitched and moan till it was made through the help of lan support. Interesting how that works. You should think about what you say. Cause you fail.

[acidrain]

Queue the competition vs. casual player argument… now.

Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

:stroggbanana:

[aimology]

[QUOTE=darthmob;197111]You know what one big problem is aimology, people - especially the competitive community - can’t adapt.

You won’t see any game like those on idtech3 anymore. And yet everytime a new game gets released on idtech the same complaints come up. Remove iron sights, enable strafejumping, enable sprint + shoot, bring in hitscan weapons and remove random spread. You have to face it, it just won’t happen!

I have to agree on one thing: if a game is supposed to attract the competitive crowd it has to do that from the very beginning. If server binaries, sdk and basic competitive features get released weeks after the game then it’s most likely already doomed. Q4, ETQW and Wolfenstein speak for themselves.

PS: The difference in netcode between beta and release client of ETQW were like day and night. It got further improved in one of the patches as well. But then it was already too late for the impatient.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly, Maybe they fix stuff, but by then its too late. why? because " we shouldnt give advice before we know anything about the game" cough darkangel statement.

I also think it has nothing to do with people not being able to adapt. If you read I said I’ve competed in over 8 games. I’ve adapted fine. My list

quake 2
halo
return to castle wolfenstein
quake 4
call of duty 1
call of duty 2
call of duty 4
enemy territory
warsow ( haha )
team fotress 2
F.E.A.R

not to mention I played for shit n giggles

cs 1.6
cs:s
quakwars ( just beta retail was bad )
soldier of fortune 2
call of duty 5 ( which I put on ebay cause it was bad )
quakelive
world of conflict ( beta didnt like it, not my cup of tea )
world of warcraft ( I was bored for a few months, in the era as of now )

( Im sure Im not the only person who can adapt in this world )

which I can honestly say, I have been good at every game I’ve played. I might of not been the “best” in every game, but I’ve been able to compete with the “best” in every game. Adapting is not the problem. The problem is if people wanna learn too adapt. If the game is bad straight from retail, They dont want too learn. Team Fortress 2 ( a game I no longer play ) was good straight from retail for competition and pubbers. Well guess what it had a small community when I played like 15 teams in cevo.com, I quit for call of duty 4… The game is / was bigger the past 8 months then it ever was when I played. I wonder why? I think it might have something to do with it being solid straight from retail, which gave the game “time” for the community to grow bigger and bigger. Where a new game thats bad ( wolfenstein ) is complete crap and nobody wants to even play it in the first place, and people bitch and moan how bad it is.

Im glad the guys at SD are gonna take some information from the competitive scene, I just hope its really the “competitive” scene and not the average joe. Im not even here to argue, I just dont like when random pepole who just wanna say something for the sake of saying something, do.

When someone makes a pretty interesting post and has good idea’s like dashiva did. It doesnt need some random person saying blah blah blah blah blah.

Im out its 8 am, Heading to Universal Studios, Thanks for all the great conversations I had a really good time. If you want to continue this some day

IRC
#brink
@gamesurge network.

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=acidrain;197114]Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

:stroggbanana:[/QUOTE]

Get your purses ready!