Refunding Phantom

[Amerika]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;52268”][quote=“Ardez;52261”]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.[/quote]

Exactly

This is part of his role, and the cloak currently does NOT allow him to do this. If you can see him coming down the street on Chapel, then cloak has failed at it’s purpose. It it not a damage sponge, it is stealth tool, and Splash needs to change it to suit that purpose. Otherwise Phantom has no role, because he can’t spot, and eventually some mercs will even have the Katana, so there is nothing that he will do that someone else can’t do but better.

[/quote]

Why are you running straight down the street of Chapel. You expect to be completely invisible until you finally decide to uncloak? That’s what it sounds like. I know you played TF2 and that’s probably exactly what you want but this is a completely different style of game. You should be using the side entrances on Chapel to flank. Yes, your cloak might not be completely invisible but you still have to catch it in your peripheral which can be a challenge. This puts Phantom in a heck of a position to get in the first shots and laser down one or two people and still be able to retreat.

I honestly don’t understand how people could expect to be fully invisible, run straight towards people and lunge at them getting cheap kills and not expect that to be changed in a game like Dirty Bomb. And that wasn’t even a good style to play as you would almost always be killed which didn’t help your team much compared to actually using your gun to pick people off, retreat, pick more people off. If somebody chased you there was the katana.

Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted. Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out. I LOVED it when Fragger nades could kill 5 people in a room. Now, if you throw into a group, you’re lucky to kill two and even wound any of the rest. However, I know full well that was fun for me but terrible for others and the game overall. So I was fine when it was changed. Phantom is in a similar boat. The cheap melee kills make him bad for the player experience in a lot of people’s eyes and it’s not something that fits the game currently as it’s very very gun-centric. Phantom is still pretty amazing…but only if you play him as a recon and not just go for giggle melee kills.

That’s of course my opinion and people can disagree with it but it was hard to miss all of the information about Phantom getting his cheap kill tendency toned down. You might enjoy that play-style but a lot of people don’t. Especially those on the receiving end.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Amerika;52362”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;52268”][quote=“Ardez;52261”]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.[/quote]

Exactly

This is part of his role, and the cloak currently does NOT allow him to do this. If you can see him coming down the street on Chapel, then cloak has failed at it’s purpose. It it not a damage sponge, it is stealth tool, and Splash needs to change it to suit that purpose. Otherwise Phantom has no role, because he can’t spot, and eventually some mercs will even have the Katana, so there is nothing that he will do that someone else can’t do but better.

[/quote]

Why are you running straight down the street of Chapel. You expect to be completely invisible until you finally decide to uncloak? That’s what it sounds like. I know you played TF2 and that’s probably exactly what you want but this is a completely different style of game. You should be using the side entrances on Chapel to flank. Yes, your cloak might not be completely invisible but you still have to catch it in your peripheral which can be a challenge. This puts Phantom in a heck of a position to get in the first shots and laser down one or two people and still be able to retreat.

I honestly don’t understand how people could expect to be fully invisible, run straight towards people and lunge at them getting cheap kills and not expect that to be changed in a game like Dirty Bomb. And that wasn’t even a good style to play as you would almost always be killed which didn’t help your team much compared to actually using your gun to pick people off, retreat, pick more people off. If somebody chased you there was the katana.

Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted. Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out. I LOVED it when Fragger nades could kill 5 people in a room. Now, if you throw into a group, you’re lucky to kill two and even wound any of the rest. However, I know full well that was fun for me but terrible for others and the game overall. So I was fine when it was changed. Phantom is in a similar boat. The cheap melee kills make him bad for the player experience in a lot of people’s eyes and it’s not something that fits the game currently as it’s very very gun-centric. Phantom is still pretty amazing…but only if you play him as a recon and not just go for giggle melee kills.

That’s of course my opinion and people can disagree with it but it was hard to miss all of the information about Phantom getting his cheap kill tendency toned down. You might enjoy that play-style but a lot of people don’t. Especially those on the receiving end.[/quote]

I’ll just summarize this

If I can’t run in front of the enemy to get behind them with cloak, if my only option is to flank them to reduce my chances of being spotted…why am I playing Phantom?

I can flank with ANY other merc, and any one of their abilities would be more useful.

The reality is that if Phantom has to flank to use his cloak, then there really is no point. Because his ability offers nothing distinct, nothing that other classes can’t do better, or do the same with more to offer.

I expect to be able to run past enemies on chapel from the front because that’s what is supposed to do.

If I was dumb enough to go for the quick Sparks kill then that would be a waste, because I would die the moment I tried that so at best we’d trade 1 for 1…big freaking whoop. It’s still an even 4v4 fight, and there’s almost always a standard of at least TWO medics per team. So, like I said, if the cloak isn’t fully invisible, then Phantom serves no role.

No matter what you feel about cheap kills the reality is they are everywhere, Proxy’s Mines, Fragger’s Nades, a Vasilli that you didn’t notice since nobody called it, a turret, I can go on all day. Something feeling cheap is purely based on player opinion and perspective, may seem cheap to you but using it is an entirely different story.

If they wanna prevent cheap kills from the front, nerf the Katana’s damage, and have it give a 25% damage boost from behind, so it’ll only instantly kill certain mercs from surprise attacks, not front slashes. And even then, like I said, no smart Phantom will trade 1 for 1 since they’ll respawn in 20 seconds anyhow. Or better yet, add a windup, so the Phantom has to hold down the lunge attack to use it, and gain a potential damage boost even. That will actually add some depth to it and make it feel less cheap.

[Ardez1]

So I think I am all good for bashing my head against a brick wall for today. Phantom is still more than viable in the right hands. Yes, other mercs can do a similar role, but that is true about any merc in the game. Not 1 is quantifiably better then every other merc at something. In the end it usually comes down to a matter of opinion.

[triteTongs]

So I think I am all good for bashing my head against a brick wall for today. Phantom is still more than viable in the right hands. Yes, other mercs can do a similar role, but that is true about any merc in the game. Not 1 is quantifiably better then every other merc at something. In the end it usually comes down to a matter of opinion.

I’d actually love to see the statistics of how many players use phantom now

Most players used phantom pre-patch but switched off when they couldn’t get a few kills against a few competent players watching out for him.

I really do think he’ll be a ghost. The rarest merc to see in a game. His only ability is to cloak to flank, and you can do that with any merc without cloak (just take one of the many alternate paths that most teams never watch). He’s just a man with a gun now.

It’s like taking the grenade launcher away from nader. What makes nader unique? Her marty and her nades. Sure, she can be still be viable since everyone owns a gun, but that’s not what made her nader.

I’d be happy if they simply reduce the cooldown on the cloak by at least 2 seconds, revert the turn limit for everything and rethink their strategy to reward ‘initial aim’ for the hard stab attack, and don’t touch the quick swipes for any knife.

[winrarphile]

I think over reaction is an understatement here.

[Merci1ess]

Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted.

Personally I think this game is a fully released game with working (of course) micro-transactions with BETA stamped on it to allow @*($ ups or to use it as an excuse when things don’t go as planned just like how you used it here for example. Also… you say everyone that bought Phantom should shut up (You didn’t say that but… let’s be honest, It’s what you mean) because SD stated that he would be adjusted. This right after his release. Okay… Alright. His “Merc Role-Call” video was released a week before… Why didn’t SD say anything then? Why say something after releasing him, knowing full well that alot of people won’t go and look for information on forums before buying him…

Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out.

Yes… “A few” is a very important statement here. I think alot of people can live with “A few” nerfs here and there. I don’t think Phantom got “A few” nerfs. Let’s just… go back and see what happened with Phantom.

Here’s my loadout card: http://puu.sh/iV7JB/e2179ef6a3.jpg

Yes, I got lucky enough to pull him out of a random, game rewarded case.

Now just in this loadout card (which is the best card, imo)… I have 10 nerfs.

1-Phantom’s health has been lowered to 110hp (from 120hp)
2-Refractive Armor maximum recharge time increased to 10s (from 6s)
3-Taking damage that exceeds remaining Refractive Armor energy will now also eat into health
4-Refractive Armor is now slightly more visible when Phantom is moving
5-Cloaking/de-cloaking audio is now more audible to other players
6-Added a turn-speed-limit for melee attacks to prevent exploits and to reward initial aim
7-Katana - Reduced run speed when equipped by 2.5%
8-Katana - Secondary attacks now deal damage for a shorter period of time
9-Chopper Augment melee damage bonus reduced to +15% (down from +20%)
10-KEK-10 SMG - Bullet spread now increases ~7% faster than before while firing

It’s just a few nerfs. It’s no big deal.

I’m not saying that Phantom didn’t deserve any nerf… He probably did. I’m saying probably because when I played against players who knew what the hell they were doing, I had a very good amount of challenge. It was balanced from my experience against those types of players. If this game makes changes based on what the players that don’t know how to actually play say… Then this game is digging its own grave.

[Amerika]

[quote=“vastMall;52426”][quote=“Amerika;52362”]
Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted.
[/quote]

Personally I think this game is a fully released game with working (of course) micro-transactions with BETA stamped on it to allow @*($ ups or to use it as an excuse when things don’t go as planned just like how you used it here for example. Also… you say everyone that bought Phantom should shut up (You didn’t say that but… let’s be honest, It’s what you mean) because SD stated that he would be adjusted. This right after his release. Okay… Alright. His “Merc Role-Call” video was released a week before… Why didn’t SD say anything then? Why say something after releasing him, knowing full well that alot of people won’t go and look for information on forums before buying him…

Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out.

Yes… “A few” is a very important statement here. I think alot of people can live with “A few” nerfs here and there. I don’t think Phantom got “A few” nerfs. Let’s just… go back and see what happened with Phantom.

Here’s my loadout card: http://puu.sh/iV7JB/e2179ef6a3.jpg

Yes, I got lucky enough to pull him out of a random, game rewarded case.

Now just in this loadout card (which is the best card, imo)… I have 10 nerfs.

1-Phantom’s health has been lowered to 110hp (from 120hp)
2-Refractive Armor maximum recharge time increased to 10s (from 6s)
3-Taking damage that exceeds remaining Refractive Armor energy will now also eat into health
4-Refractive Armor is now slightly more visible when Phantom is moving
5-Cloaking/de-cloaking audio is now more audible to other players
6-Added a turn-speed-limit for melee attacks to prevent exploits and to reward initial aim
7-Katana - Reduced run speed when equipped by 2.5%
8-Katana - Secondary attacks now deal damage for a shorter period of time
9-Chopper Augment melee damage bonus reduced to +15% (down from +20%)
10-KEK-10 SMG - Bullet spread now increases ~7% faster than before while firing

It’s just a few nerfs. It’s no big deal.

I’m not saying that Phantom didn’t deserve any nerf… He probably did. I’m saying probably because when I played against players who knew what the hell they were doing, I had a very good amount of challenge. It was balanced from my experience against those types of players. If this game makes changes based on what the players that don’t know how to actually play say… Then this game is digging its own grave.[/quote]

Please do not put words into my mouth. I did not tell everyone to shut up nor imply it. Every game with support behind it evolves. DB is in beta regardless of what you believe. It says beta everywhere all over it and anything and everything is subject to change whether there is a price attached or not.

Even if the game wasn’t in beta mercs would still be subject to change just like there are balance changes to any other game. Many games change over time and I’ll cite a number of examples here that have personally affected me. Quake Live isn’t the same game it was two years ago and it’s not the same game that was Quake 3 that I’m used to. I put money into those. In BC2 I really loved the engineer but his rocket launcher early on was a bit too destructive. It was adjusted because it degraded everyone’s experience. Same goes for sniper shotguns in that game early on. Every single patch for a fighting game has, sometimes significant, character changes. I played a Death Knight at WoW’s launch that had a roller coaster of changes and bugs (some good for me and some very bad). I knew it would be changed and it was.

Yes, it might make you unhappy that something you loved was changed but that doesn’t mean it didn’t need to change to make the game better overall for everyone. You can’t please everyone.

[AnemoneMeer]

As I said before and was poorly argued against, his cloak gives him enough shield to take a more guarded route. It does NOT let him facetank damage, and it doesn’t let him blindly charge, but it does notably improve his ability to flank, since a few stray rounds into his cloak from that skyhammer who just respawned aren’t going to reduce his HP once he starts shooting.

He’s harder to spot with peripheral vision than any other merc and shielded from opening fire while he’s moving, which means he can flank FAR better by being able to run through guarded sightlines into flanks. Which means he has an easier time getting to enemy snipers/medics. Don’t forget he still oneshots medics.

70 HP does not regenerate in 10 seconds. His cloak does. This means that if he does get shot while cloaked, it doesn’t have the same effect as if he was shot when he was not cloaked.

Phantom will be rare, because alot of people who want to play stealth characters do not have the faintest understanding of how to stealth. You see it all the time in TF2 with people being incredibly blatant spies and trying to stealthily run through a heated battlefield only to die to rockets. Now you need to play like an ambusher and flank even though you have cloaking.

[triteTongs]

I think over reaction is an understatement here.

I hope I’m wrong. Time will only tell and I really hope a free weekend comes by soon so people can play him. Maybe people will be better informed on what needs to change.

Like I said, what would make me happy with him isn’t that much… Just tweak the cooldown on the cloak (or give a longer cloak duration) and then rethink the melee turn mechanic since no one really likes it anyways (at least for everything but the katana. But if they are giving the Katana to other mercs, then rethink the entire strategy. See the countless other threads on why suddenly taking away mouse control from a player is a terrible idea).

Rest of the changes are fine. I hardly call my suggestions kneejerk and over-reactive.

[Amerika]

@Watsyurdeal

[left]

I’ll just summarize this

If I can’t run in front of the enemy to get behind them with cloak, if my only option is to flank them to reduce my chances of being spotted…why am I playing Phantom?

Because the cloak still allows you to be missed/not seen when used in an intelligent manner. Running straight at them and them not seeing you is pretty awful in a game that is heavily based on skillful play and aim.

I can flank with ANY other merc, and any one of their abilities would be more useful.

The reality is that if Phantom has to flank to use his cloak, then there really is no point. Because his ability offers nothing distinct, nothing that other classes can’t do better, or do the same with more to offer.

You can flank with any merc. You can flank much better with Phantom. The cloak definitely lets you be ignored/not seen much more often than you seem to want to admit.

I expect to be able to run past enemies on chapel from the front because that’s what is supposed to do.

Who said Phantom was supposed to do this? What you want isn’t the same thing as what a character was designed to be. And you honestly expect to just run directly at a group of people, get behind them and then stab the low HP one and get a cheap kill with no way to avoid it? That’s your idea of good gameplay? All while you can then start shooting the other people left?

If I was dumb enough to go for the quick Sparks kill then that would be a waste, because I would die the moment I tried that so at best we’d trade 1 for 1…big freaking whoop. It’s still an even 4v4 fight, and there’s almost always a standard of at least TWO medics per team. So, like I said, if the cloak isn’t fully invisible, then Phantom serves no role.

So you’re fine with being able to completely destroy low HP mercs without them having any chance to counter you…because the numbers still add up after you die? And being able to flank better than anybody else and call out where people are better than anybody else servers no purpose? Sorry, can’t agree with that.

No matter what you feel about cheap kills the reality is they are everywhere, Proxy’s Mines, Fragger’s Nades, a Vasilli that you didn’t notice since nobody called it, a turret, I can go on all day. Something feeling cheap is purely based on player opinion and perspective, may seem cheap to you but using it is an entirely different story.

Proxy’s mines were nerfed. The arm time and the explosive power IIRC. Fragger nades have been HEAVILY nerfed. Vassili just had is PDP nerfed and the Moa might be next (I’d be fine with the FEL IX allowing HS gibs and removing it from the Moa…it would make the FEL IX less worthless than it is now). Turrets have had their HP nerfed…they are also easy to hear/spot. Nader’s martyrdom and grenades have been nerfed compared to where they once were in closed. Martyrdom has been adjusted a few times. Almost all of these changes were made because the abilities in question were either cheap, overpowered or both.

If they wanna prevent cheap kills from the front, nerf the Katana’s damage, and have it give a 25% damage boost from behind, so it’ll only instantly kill certain mercs from surprise attacks, not front slashes. And even then, like I said, no smart Phantom will trade 1 for 1 since they’ll respawn in 20 seconds anyhow. Or better yet, add a windup, so the Phantom has to hold down the lunge attack to use it, and gain a potential damage boost even. That will actually add some depth to it and make it feel less cheap.

If you can’t be seen at all then you’d just kill people from the back and nothing changes. You’d take out the sparks in one swing and switch to your gun and take on one to two others. You’d get the jump on a player death and possibly kill the other medic before you went down. That kind of play is still possible now…but it actually has risk involved. You want to remove that risk and I disagree with that entirely. I also disagree with the idea that the TF2 spy needs to be in this game.[/left]

[robustWonder]

[quote=“winrarphile;52411”]I think over reaction is an understatement here.

I hope I’m wrong. Time will only tell and I really hope a free weekend comes by soon so people can play him. Maybe people will be better informed on what needs to change.

Like I said, what would make me happy with him isn’t that much… Just tweak the cooldown on the cloak (or give a longer cloak duration) and then rethink the melee turn mechanic since no one really likes it anyways (at least for everything but the katana. But if they are giving the Katana to other mercs, then rethink the entire strategy. See the countless other threads on why suddenly taking away mouse control from a player is a terrible idea).

Rest of the changes are fine. I hardly call my suggestions kneejerk and over-reactive.[/quote]

Why does only the Katana deserve the turn-speed-limit?

It is a “terrible idea” to take away mouse control from every character but the one that was designed specifically for melee?

Cloak cooldown is too long, melee damage needs to be reverted for all melee weapons because it now forces anyone playing Phantom to use only Chopper, the turn-speed-limit needs to be eliminated and instead of allowing players to do a 360 turn while striking with melee, melee weapons need to be limited to 90 degree turn right and left from the point of origin.

[Fap_Fap_Master]

[quote=“Ghosthree3;52206”]They just nerfed him in every single aspect when he really wasn’t that OP to begin with. Talk about overkill, seriously.

Nerfing his health, halving his shield and fixing Katana hitframes would have been enough.[/quote]

Extactly this, he is now dead.

[Ardez1]

He is not dead, his invisible katana only playstyle is dead.

[NaIKoLDY]

SOOOOO sad that people getting mad doin him moore fair…u are all a bunches of…
http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13613441692075017293.GIF

[aSheepamongWolves]

Honestly I don’t understand why they don’t just make him vulnerable when he is invisible. He is supposed to be stealthy and not a tank. That way he doesn’t rush you when he is invisible, because he does take damage. He would be more of a infiltrator behind enemy lines and maybe get some strikes against the team. For those who bought him and want a refund. IT’S A BETA and as such your mercenary is subject to change.

[titaniumCrouton]

[quote=“Amerika;52474”][quote=“vastMall;52426”][quote=“Amerika;52362”]
Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted.
[/quote]

Personally I think this game is a fully released game with working (of course) micro-transactions with BETA stamped on it to allow @*($ ups or to use it as an excuse when things don’t go as planned just like how you used it here for example. Also… you say everyone that bought Phantom should shut up (You didn’t say that but… let’s be honest, It’s what you mean) because SD stated that he would be adjusted. This right after his release. Okay… Alright. His “Merc Role-Call” video was released a week before… Why didn’t SD say anything then? Why say something after releasing him, knowing full well that alot of people won’t go and look for information on forums before buying him…

Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out.

Yes… “A few” is a very important statement here. I think alot of people can live with “A few” nerfs here and there. I don’t think Phantom got “A few” nerfs. Let’s just… go back and see what happened with Phantom.

Here’s my loadout card: http://puu.sh/iV7JB/e2179ef6a3.jpg

Yes, I got lucky enough to pull him out of a random, game rewarded case.

Now just in this loadout card (which is the best card, imo)… I have 10 nerfs.

1-Phantom’s health has been lowered to 110hp (from 120hp)
2-Refractive Armor maximum recharge time increased to 10s (from 6s)
3-Taking damage that exceeds remaining Refractive Armor energy will now also eat into health
4-Refractive Armor is now slightly more visible when Phantom is moving
5-Cloaking/de-cloaking audio is now more audible to other players
6-Added a turn-speed-limit for melee attacks to prevent exploits and to reward initial aim
7-Katana - Reduced run speed when equipped by 2.5%
8-Katana - Secondary attacks now deal damage for a shorter period of time
9-Chopper Augment melee damage bonus reduced to +15% (down from +20%)
10-KEK-10 SMG - Bullet spread now increases ~7% faster than before while firing

It’s just a few nerfs. It’s no big deal.

I’m not saying that Phantom didn’t deserve any nerf… He probably did. I’m saying probably because when I played against players who knew what the hell they were doing, I had a very good amount of challenge. It was balanced from my experience against those types of players. If this game makes changes based on what the players that don’t know how to actually play say… Then this game is digging its own grave.[/quote]

Please do not put words into my mouth. I did not tell everyone to shut up nor imply it. Every game with support behind it evolves. DB is in beta regardless of what you believe. It says beta everywhere all over it and anything and everything is subject to change whether there is a price attached or not.

Even if the game wasn’t in beta mercs would still be subject to change just like there are balance changes to any other game. Many games change over time and I’ll cite a number of examples here that have personally affected me. Quake Live isn’t the same game it was two years ago and it’s not the same game that was Quake 3 that I’m used to. I put money into those. In BC2 I really loved the engineer but his rocket launcher early on was a bit too destructive. It was adjusted because it degraded everyone’s experience. Same goes for sniper shotguns in that game early on. Every single patch for a fighting game has, sometimes significant, character changes. I played a Death Knight at WoW’s launch that had a roller coaster of changes and bugs (some good for me and some very bad). I knew it would be changed and it was.

Yes, it might make you unhappy that something you loved was changed but that doesn’t mean it didn’t need to change to make the game better overall for everyone. You can’t please everyone.[/quote]

That moment when everyone disagrees with you, but you refuse to see why. No, plenty of use didn’t use the katana only style, like me. He’s fucking dead. His ability is useless. Before the nerf I was already getting hit across the damn map by people while trying to get into position, now a downy kid could pick a phantom out from the crowd. It’s pathatic. Combined with the melee nerfs which not only helped kill that particular style of plaiyng but it killed the entire OPTION of melee.

and yes you basically do tell people to shut up ._. in every thread I see it, you speak as if an all knowing authoritay. It’s annoying. Even more so when you’re wrong.

Edit; Quoted wrong person. Speaking to Ardez mostly.

[NaIKoLDY]

I bought him the same day he was released…spent around 105€ to get at cobalt…played like 10 rounds with him…not my kind of guy…its a f2p game…THEEEE best out right now…so u spent a few euros or dollars…but u know they are keppin it a fair game…man up and take it!!!

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“Amerika;52474”][quote=“vastMall;52426”][quote=“Amerika;52362”]
Also, very quickly after Phantom was released there was a ton of information given out by SD stating that he would be adjusted. And this game is in beta so of course things will be adjusted.
[/quote]

Personally I think this game is a fully released game with working (of course) micro-transactions with BETA stamped on it to allow @*($ ups or to use it as an excuse when things don’t go as planned just like how you used it here for example. Also… you say everyone that bought Phantom should shut up (You didn’t say that but… let’s be honest, It’s what you mean) because SD stated that he would be adjusted. This right after his release. Okay… Alright. His “Merc Role-Call” video was released a week before… Why didn’t SD say anything then? Why say something after releasing him, knowing full well that alot of people won’t go and look for information on forums before buying him…

Fragger has went through tons of them, Vassili a few (and then reverted), Nader a few etc. It comes with the territory when a new character comes out.

Yes… “A few” is a very important statement here. I think alot of people can live with “A few” nerfs here and there. I don’t think Phantom got “A few” nerfs. Let’s just… go back and see what happened with Phantom.

Here’s my loadout card: http://puu.sh/iV7JB/e2179ef6a3.jpg

Yes, I got lucky enough to pull him out of a random, game rewarded case.

Now just in this loadout card (which is the best card, imo)… I have 10 nerfs.

1-Phantom’s health has been lowered to 110hp (from 120hp)
2-Refractive Armor maximum recharge time increased to 10s (from 6s)
3-Taking damage that exceeds remaining Refractive Armor energy will now also eat into health
4-Refractive Armor is now slightly more visible when Phantom is moving
5-Cloaking/de-cloaking audio is now more audible to other players
6-Added a turn-speed-limit for melee attacks to prevent exploits and to reward initial aim
7-Katana - Reduced run speed when equipped by 2.5%
8-Katana - Secondary attacks now deal damage for a shorter period of time
9-Chopper Augment melee damage bonus reduced to +15% (down from +20%)
10-KEK-10 SMG - Bullet spread now increases ~7% faster than before while firing

It’s just a few nerfs. It’s no big deal.

I’m not saying that Phantom didn’t deserve any nerf… He probably did. I’m saying probably because when I played against players who knew what the hell they were doing, I had a very good amount of challenge. It was balanced from my experience against those types of players. If this game makes changes based on what the players that don’t know how to actually play say… Then this game is digging its own grave.[/quote]

Please do not put words into my mouth. I did not tell everyone to shut up nor imply it. Every game with support behind it evolves. DB is in beta regardless of what you believe. It says beta everywhere all over it and anything and everything is subject to change whether there is a price attached or not.

Even if the game wasn’t in beta mercs would still be subject to change just like there are balance changes to any other game. Many games change over time and I’ll cite a number of examples here that have personally affected me. Quake Live isn’t the same game it was two years ago and it’s not the same game that was Quake 3 that I’m used to. I put money into those. In BC2 I really loved the engineer but his rocket launcher early on was a bit too destructive. It was adjusted because it degraded everyone’s experience. Same goes for sniper shotguns in that game early on. Every single patch for a fighting game has, sometimes significant, character changes. I played a Death Knight at WoW’s launch that had a roller coaster of changes and bugs (some good for me and some very bad). I knew it would be changed and it was.

Yes, it might make you unhappy that something you loved was changed but that doesn’t mean it didn’t need to change to make the game better overall for everyone. You can’t please everyone.[/quote]

I understand what you mean. The problem is I paid for something that I enjoyed playing. I had fun. Now that fun was taken away from me due to DRASTIC changes that made that mercenary unplayable for me. So my 10 dollars is going bye bye right now because I don’t want to play that character anymore. When I spend money on something, I want to enjoy it. It’s like when you buy a game. If the game I bought is shit, I don’t want it. I have the right to return it. Give me value for what I’m paying you. The nerf is so strong that it looks really really bad and shady. It looks like blatant cash grab. There’s no way that this merc was released the way it was at first… then nerfed THIS bad. Someone somewhere isn’t doing his job properly.

For the examples you used… Quake Live is free to play with no micro-transactions, as far as I know. I played it and enjoyed all the contents in the game without spending a dollar. You didn’t pay to be able to make a Death Knight. You paid for the expansion yes… For the extra content and raids. But you didn’t pay for the character itself. You just make it… For free. It didn’t cost you anything. Did you pay for the engineer class in BC2? I don’t think so.

Me being unhappy is an understatement and the game is just better for the whiners that cried because they couldn’t or simply didn’t want to counter Phantom. Plain and simple. So I’ll go ahead and assume that by “everyone” you mean the bad players. I’ve played against Phantoms countless times using Vassili and several other mercs. Some killed me, some got killed.

[goodSalad]

I consistently go 40/10 and my first match back with nerfed phantom i went 54/3, he’s perfectly fucking fine if you know what to do
Play him like an ASSASSIN not like an assault like shitters used to do for him, and don’t purely use melee, he’s got a gun for a reason
the shitters saying hes 2 nerfed, are just bad at the game, they’re innately trash and need a crutch, ignore them and continue on your way

[Bottlecaps]

This is why people need better buying skills. Stop buying things Day 1. Wait for feedback then purchase. If you did that you would have known there was most likely a balance for Phantom coming. And Phantom is still good for flanking, he just isn’t a melee beast.