Refunding Phantom

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-23 16:33:40 UTC

[quote=“Ardez;52250”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;52246”][quote=“Alphafox;52239”][quote=“Ardez;52229”]Dirty Bomb is supposed to be a gunplay based game. The main outcry on Phantom was a merc being so breaking away from the core gameplay.

The recent patch pretty much brought the game back to very strong core values of encouraging gunplay by nerfing melee.

Learn to use Phantom as a skilled flanker with strong SMG options, not as an invisible katana.[/quote]

Then what’s the point of melee at all? Don’t you think it’s a bit ridiculous that now you have difficulty to even finish your opponents? Let’s not lie to ourselves having 1 character that was decent( Noticed how I didn’t even say good?) at melee can’t be considered like ‘‘breaking away fro the core gameplay’’. It’s just flat out ridiculous that a aspect of the game just got transformed to a cosmetic decision. [/quote]

This is a good point to remember to those saying a melee centric merc goes against Dirty Bomb’s design.

We have to use our knife to finish enemies quickly if we want to deny a revive, so what is wrong with a Merc who can use cloak, to get behind enemy lines, and effectively kill enemies and finish them before a Medic has a chance to revive them, or better yet killing the Medic and cutting the head of the snake so to speak.

The answer, nothing, there’s nothing wrong with it other than people don’t like change.
[/quote]

Nobody is required to use melee to finish, it is just encouraged. In particular from long range you need to use bullets if you want to finish.

There is a badge for getting melee kills because getting melee kills is supposed to be hard. Judging by the reward for the badge it is supposed to be roughly as hard as a triple kill. I think that post patch the balance, at least as far as the badges go, is closer to accurate. If the devs had wanted Phantom to primary the Katana, why would they give him the option of not getting one or giving him a primary?

The katana is supposed to be a cool little thing that some mercs get. Along that line it is still the best melee weapon in the game. It was not supposed to be a primary weapon. [/quote]

I disagree completely, if you want to kill someone for good and force them to respawn, you have to gib them. And the knife is the best tool for that, bullets do not kill people fast enough to stop a revive. Rhino and Fragger for example, and soon to be Thunder.

And yes, we get that, melee kills are supposed to be hard.

But Phantom’s niche is that he should be able to get close enough to get them in the first place, with relative ease.

Saying just use your gun is kinda pointless, because if my ability doesn’t work well enough to get me within close proximity…why should I use him? Why not use another merc with the same weapons and the same health, but better abilities that contribute more?

If his cloak was actually good at it’s intended purpose Phantom would be a much more viable merc, but currently, you won’t see him in competitive at all.

[quote=“Alphafox;52251”]
They have the same role, but do it with different tools, so that’s why people compare them, nothing complicated here.[/quote]

Exactly, it’s like comparing different flavors of the same type of food or drink, or comparing a pen to pencil, they both do the same thing, just different niches.

Alphafox1 · 2015-07-23 16:35:33 UTC

[quote=“Ardez;52253”][quote=“Alphafox;52251”][quote=“Cesmode;52240”]Why people compare Vassilli or Fragger to Phantom is outrageous.

Fragger vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Fragger coming 99% of the time unless you set up shop in a position where a fragger was already behind you.
-Fragger is slower than Phantom(much slower).
-You see the grenade being tossed by a fragger, you had a much much harder time seeing a phantom coming at you with a one-shot kitana with no time to react, unlike if you see a fragger nade. Hell, didn’t they also make his nades more noticeable via sound?

Vasilli vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Vasilli camping a spot. The only time you have a difficult time seeing vasilli is if they are quick-sniping you via straffing in and out of field of view . Believe it or not, this takes skill, and if they manage a headshot doing so, it takes even more skill. Vs a Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming. Less skill with the melee, and less visability.
-Vasilli does have a support ability, believe it or not…heartbeat sensor which can be seen by the team. Team ability, in my opinion. Phantom has nothing to boost his teammates abilities.
-Vasilli has less HP than Phantom.

[/quote]

It’s just 100% logic to compare mercs that have the same role. Their role is to kill, this is why people compare them.

Your point is? Phantom can clearly be seen too, if you have situational awareness of course. The same thing can be said about Phantom. 99% of the time if someone is behind you he can get the kill, your argument doesn’t stand on anything sorry.
All the mercs have different speed, what’s the point of that argument?
Any decent player will know to cook their frags, you can see them but if you saw them that mean you are already dead, so once again your argument doesn’t show anything.The sound was never made more noticeable.
You said it yourself: ‘‘Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming.’’ are you blaming people stupidity on the Phantom players? If you have no situational awareness once again, you deserve to be killed.
Huh alright? Fragger doesn’t have a support ability, Rhino doesn’t have a support ability, Nader doesn’t have a support ability, their jobs once again is to kill, not to support. Killing by itself is making the game advance
Your point is?

Not sure of what you are trying to say, are you saying that all mercs should be a excat copy of each other? Because this is why I understood from that.

They have the same role, but do it with different tools, so that’s why people compare them, nothing complicated here.[/quote]

One thing that people seem to forget is that Phantom fills a Recon slot in the merc roles. The same slot that Vassili and Redeye are members of. You should not be comparing Phantom to Fragger, Nader and Rhino as he is NOT intended to fulfill the same role.[/quote]

Since he doesn’t have the distinctive trait of a recon: spotting, he can be compared to those who are modelled to kill. He’s a recon with a assault role.

Ardez1 · 2015-07-23 16:40:00 UTC

[quote=“Alphafox;52255”][quote=“Ardez;52253”][quote=“Alphafox;52251”][quote=“Cesmode;52240”]Why people compare Vassilli or Fragger to Phantom is outrageous.

Fragger vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Fragger coming 99% of the time unless you set up shop in a position where a fragger was already behind you.
-Fragger is slower than Phantom(much slower).
-You see the grenade being tossed by a fragger, you had a much much harder time seeing a phantom coming at you with a one-shot kitana with no time to react, unlike if you see a fragger nade. Hell, didn’t they also make his nades more noticeable via sound?

Vasilli vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Vasilli camping a spot. The only time you have a difficult time seeing vasilli is if they are quick-sniping you via straffing in and out of field of view . Believe it or not, this takes skill, and if they manage a headshot doing so, it takes even more skill. Vs a Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming. Less skill with the melee, and less visability.
-Vasilli does have a support ability, believe it or not…heartbeat sensor which can be seen by the team. Team ability, in my opinion. Phantom has nothing to boost his teammates abilities.
-Vasilli has less HP than Phantom.

[/quote]

It’s just 100% logic to compare mercs that have the same role. Their role is to kill, this is why people compare them.

Your point is? Phantom can clearly be seen too, if you have situational awareness of course. The same thing can be said about Phantom. 99% of the time if someone is behind you he can get the kill, your argument doesn’t stand on anything sorry.
All the mercs have different speed, what’s the point of that argument?
Any decent player will know to cook their frags, you can see them but if you saw them that mean you are already dead, so once again your argument doesn’t show anything.The sound was never made more noticeable.
You said it yourself: ‘‘Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming.’’ are you blaming people stupidity on the Phantom players? If you have no situational awareness once again, you deserve to be killed.
Huh alright? Fragger doesn’t have a support ability, Rhino doesn’t have a support ability, Nader doesn’t have a support ability, their jobs once again is to kill, not to support. Killing by itself is making the game advance
Your point is?

Not sure of what you are trying to say, are you saying that all mercs should be a excat copy of each other? Because this is why I understood from that.

They have the same role, but do it with different tools, so that’s why people compare them, nothing complicated here.[/quote]

One thing that people seem to forget is that Phantom fills a Recon slot in the merc roles. The same slot that Vassili and Redeye are members of. You should not be comparing Phantom to Fragger, Nader and Rhino as he is NOT intended to fulfill the same role.[/quote]

Since he doesn’t have the distinctive trait of a recon: spotting, he can be compared to those who are modelled to kill. He’s a recon with a assault role.[/quote]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-23 16:43:10 UTC

[quote=“Ardez;52261”]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.[/quote]

Exactly

This is part of his role, and the cloak currently does NOT allow him to do this. If you can see him coming down the street on Chapel, then cloak has failed at it’s purpose. It it not a damage sponge, it is stealth tool, and Splash needs to change it to suit that purpose. Otherwise Phantom has no role, because he can’t spot, and eventually some mercs will even have the Katana, so there is nothing that he will do that someone else can’t do but better.

Alphafox1 · 2015-07-23 16:45:47 UTC

[quote=“Ardez;52261”][quote=“Alphafox;52255”][quote=“Ardez;52253”][quote=“Alphafox;52251”][quote=“Cesmode;52240”]Why people compare Vassilli or Fragger to Phantom is outrageous.

Fragger vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Fragger coming 99% of the time unless you set up shop in a position where a fragger was already behind you.
-Fragger is slower than Phantom(much slower).
-You see the grenade being tossed by a fragger, you had a much much harder time seeing a phantom coming at you with a one-shot kitana with no time to react, unlike if you see a fragger nade. Hell, didn’t they also make his nades more noticeable via sound?

Vasilli vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Vasilli camping a spot. The only time you have a difficult time seeing vasilli is if they are quick-sniping you via straffing in and out of field of view . Believe it or not, this takes skill, and if they manage a headshot doing so, it takes even more skill. Vs a Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming. Less skill with the melee, and less visability.
-Vasilli does have a support ability, believe it or not…heartbeat sensor which can be seen by the team. Team ability, in my opinion. Phantom has nothing to boost his teammates abilities.
-Vasilli has less HP than Phantom.

[/quote]

It’s just 100% logic to compare mercs that have the same role. Their role is to kill, this is why people compare them.

Your point is? Phantom can clearly be seen too, if you have situational awareness of course. The same thing can be said about Phantom. 99% of the time if someone is behind you he can get the kill, your argument doesn’t stand on anything sorry.
All the mercs have different speed, what’s the point of that argument?
Any decent player will know to cook their frags, you can see them but if you saw them that mean you are already dead, so once again your argument doesn’t show anything.The sound was never made more noticeable.
You said it yourself: ‘‘Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming.’’ are you blaming people stupidity on the Phantom players? If you have no situational awareness once again, you deserve to be killed.
Huh alright? Fragger doesn’t have a support ability, Rhino doesn’t have a support ability, Nader doesn’t have a support ability, their jobs once again is to kill, not to support. Killing by itself is making the game advance
Your point is?

Not sure of what you are trying to say, are you saying that all mercs should be a excat copy of each other? Because this is why I understood from that.

They have the same role, but do it with different tools, so that’s why people compare them, nothing complicated here.[/quote]

One thing that people seem to forget is that Phantom fills a Recon slot in the merc roles. The same slot that Vassili and Redeye are members of. You should not be comparing Phantom to Fragger, Nader and Rhino as he is NOT intended to fulfill the same role.[/quote]

Since he doesn’t have the distinctive trait of a recon: spotting, he can be compared to those who are modelled to kill. He’s a recon with a assault role.[/quote]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.[/quote]

Great that you said it yourself! He’s role is to kill key players, I feel like i’m repeating myself, phatom is a recon with a assault kit. If simply going behind the enemy lines can be considered a recon then most if not all mercs could do it. Spotting(The mechanic in game not what is conveyed with voice message) is the main feature of the recon class in Dirty Bomb, which Phantom lack.
Based on the description you gave me, anyone that can get behind enemy lines and use voice chat or quick chat can be considered a recon.

aRagRappy · 2015-07-23 16:48:16 UTC

never a could idea to post, write email or text when angry, usually leads you to saying dumb stuff.

On another note, these changes wont be the last to phantom, though it isnt buffs/nerfs he needs, hes so broken at his core that they need to rework him a bit. Hopefully they actually move him into the stealth direction instead of tanky warrior.

Cesmode · 2015-07-23 16:50:02 UTC

[quote=“Alphafox;52239”][quote=“Ardez;52229”]Dirty Bomb is supposed to be a gunplay based game. The main outcry on Phantom was a merc being so breaking away from the core gameplay.

The recent patch pretty much brought the game back to very strong core values of encouraging gunplay by nerfing melee.

Learn to use Phantom as a skilled flanker with strong SMG options, not as an invisible katana.[/quote]

Then what’s the point of melee at all? Don’t you think it’s a bit ridiculous that now you have difficulty to even finish your opponents? Let’s not lie to ourselves having 1 character that was decent( Noticed how I didn’t even say good?) at melee can’t be considered like ‘‘breaking away fro the core gameplay’’. It’s just flat out ridiculous that a aspect of the game just got transformed to a cosmetic decision. [/quote]

I agree that DB is a gunplay game. What is the point of melee?

Two scenarios:

Run out of ammo(whether or completely or during a quick fight with someone)…if you dont have the time to reload, whip out the knife.
Finishers when people are bleeding out.

irishrOy · 2015-07-23 16:50:55 UTC

That’s an interesting way to spell useless.[/quote]
Yeah, I know.
Nerfing often ends up by bashing an Item into the uselessness, but you also gotta admit that Phantom was pretty hefty the last week…

[center]The ones who bought Phantom 100% knew what they were in for.
They were buying unbalanced advantages over time, that was obvious.[/center]
And now that the Nerf-Hammer (that was swung by Fletcher) came around, I don’t see the reason behind wanting a refund.

I am pretty sorry, but that’s what happens quite often in F2P-games(if unintentionally or not is to be discussed).
Unbalanced items are released, people buy it, the same Item receives a balance-patch aka Nerf-Hammer to the face and that’s it.

I admit, right now he might be useless (I haven’t played that much, and not against medium-skilled Phantoms), but the Phantom-buyers knew what they bought.

Cesmode · 2015-07-23 16:54:31 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;52246”][quote=“Alphafox;52239”][quote=“Ardez;52229”]Dirty Bomb is supposed to be a gunplay based game. The main outcry on Phantom was a merc being so breaking away from the core gameplay.

The recent patch pretty much brought the game back to very strong core values of encouraging gunplay by nerfing melee.

Learn to use Phantom as a skilled flanker with strong SMG options, not as an invisible katana.[/quote]

Then what’s the point of melee at all? Don’t you think it’s a bit ridiculous that now you have difficulty to even finish your opponents? Let’s not lie to ourselves having 1 character that was decent( Noticed how I didn’t even say good?) at melee can’t be considered like ‘‘breaking away fro the core gameplay’’. It’s just flat out ridiculous that a aspect of the game just got transformed to a cosmetic decision. [/quote]

This is a good point to remember to those saying a melee centric merc goes against Dirty Bomb’s design.

We have to use our knife to finish enemies quickly if we want to deny a revive, so what is wrong with a Merc who can use cloak, to get behind enemy lines, and effectively kill enemies and finish them before a Medic has a chance to revive them, or better yet killing the Medic and cutting the head of the snake so to speak.

The answer, nothing, there’s nothing wrong with it other than people don’t like change.

[quote=“Cesmode;52240”]Why people compare Vassilli or Fragger to Phantom is outrageous. Admit it, your one-kill hit stick has been nerfed and you can no longer top the K/D meters by stealthing around. Your ‘OP build’ is nerfed. This happens in every game, MMOs, ARP, first person shooters…people have an OP build which gets nerfed and then theres an outcry because they can no longer sleep through the game.
[/quote]

Please understand the following

[list]
[] Fragger is still a dominant slayer, even in competitive, he can’t heal, deal with objectives, throw ammo down, or deal with the EV well, but if you wanna just kill people, he’s the man to do it. He can gib and kill whole groups of people with one grenade.
[] Oh and let’s not forget Vasilli, a guy who can gib people on headshot, basically destroying and dismantling a push one pick at a time from a safe distance.
[] Phantom is an alternative to those, where Fragger is good at mid range, and Vasilli is good at long range, Phantom was the go to guy for close range slayer. Get in close with cloak, go nuts with your smg or katana, and finish them since you are close enough already to make it happen.
[] Until you’ve actually used all 3 of these mercs yourself, in a competitive environment, you have literally zero clue what we’re trying to get across. So please do us a favor and go play them before talking crap to people who are obviously annoyed that Phantom no longer has a niche.
[/list][/quote]

You assume I havent played him.

Onto your points…

Fragger has to be in range to throw that cooked nade. And you have to know how long to cook it for the distance thrown…and people can spot you while doing so.
Sniping requires more skill than any other style IMO. For some people, getting headshots while sniping is easy. For most, it is not. For a phantom that stealthed his way to his target, he just had to swing his blade once and the target is down. For the Vasilli, he has to pop his head out long enough to line up a headshot without getting shot himself. He can be seen.

Ardez1 · 2015-07-23 16:55:09 UTC

[quote=“Alphafox;52269”][quote=“Ardez;52261”][quote=“Alphafox;52255”][quote=“Ardez;52253”][quote=“Alphafox;52251”][quote=“Cesmode;52240”]Why people compare Vassilli or Fragger to Phantom is outrageous.

Fragger vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Fragger coming 99% of the time unless you set up shop in a position where a fragger was already behind you.
-Fragger is slower than Phantom(much slower).
-You see the grenade being tossed by a fragger, you had a much much harder time seeing a phantom coming at you with a one-shot kitana with no time to react, unlike if you see a fragger nade. Hell, didn’t they also make his nades more noticeable via sound?

Vasilli vs Phantom:
-You can see, clear as day, a Vasilli camping a spot. The only time you have a difficult time seeing vasilli is if they are quick-sniping you via straffing in and out of field of view . Believe it or not, this takes skill, and if they manage a headshot doing so, it takes even more skill. Vs a Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming. Less skill with the melee, and less visability.
-Vasilli does have a support ability, believe it or not…heartbeat sensor which can be seen by the team. Team ability, in my opinion. Phantom has nothing to boost his teammates abilities.
-Vasilli has less HP than Phantom.

[/quote]

It’s just 100% logic to compare mercs that have the same role. Their role is to kill, this is why people compare them.

Your point is? Phantom can clearly be seen too, if you have situational awareness of course. The same thing can be said about Phantom. 99% of the time if someone is behind you he can get the kill, your argument doesn’t stand on anything sorry.
All the mercs have different speed, what’s the point of that argument?
Any decent player will know to cook their frags, you can see them but if you saw them that mean you are already dead, so once again your argument doesn’t show anything.The sound was never made more noticeable.
You said it yourself: ‘‘Phantom that stealths right to your face and slices the big target in front of him that didn’t see him coming.’’ are you blaming people stupidity on the Phantom players? If you have no situational awareness once again, you deserve to be killed.
Huh alright? Fragger doesn’t have a support ability, Rhino doesn’t have a support ability, Nader doesn’t have a support ability, their jobs once again is to kill, not to support. Killing by itself is making the game advance
Your point is?

Not sure of what you are trying to say, are you saying that all mercs should be a excat copy of each other? Because this is why I understood from that.

They have the same role, but do it with different tools, so that’s why people compare them, nothing complicated here.[/quote]

One thing that people seem to forget is that Phantom fills a Recon slot in the merc roles. The same slot that Vassili and Redeye are members of. You should not be comparing Phantom to Fragger, Nader and Rhino as he is NOT intended to fulfill the same role.[/quote]

Since he doesn’t have the distinctive trait of a recon: spotting, he can be compared to those who are modelled to kill. He’s a recon with a assault role.[/quote]

So infiltration is not a recon trait? He slips through the enemy lines and harms them from behind through a combination of information gathering(if they are playing as a team, which is implied based on the intended gameplay of competitive) and killing key players.[/quote]

Great that you said it yourself! He’s role is to kill key players, I feel like i’m repeating myself, phatom is a recon with a assault kit. If simply going behind the enemy lines can be considered a recon then most if not all mercs could do it. Spotting(The mechanic in game not what is conveyed with voice message) is the main feature of the recon class in Dirty Bomb, which Phantom lack.
Based on the description you gave me, anyone that can get behind enemy lines and use voice chat or quick chat can be considered a recon.[/quote]

Where the differences lie is that I believe he is fantastically stronger using gunplay combined with his stealth rather than melee. Yes, killing is involved, that is true with Vasilli as well.

And also, the difference between his stealth and any other merc sneaking behind the lines is that Phantom should be able to do it by sneaking past a guarded route.

I agree that with these changes I have no issue seeing his cloak become slightly more hidden, but he should definitely be noticeable by the average player when sprinting while cloaked.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-23 16:56:09 UTC

That’s an interesting way to spell useless.[/quote]
Yeah, I know.
Nerfing often ends up by bashing an Item into the uselessness, but you also gotta admit that Phantom was pretty hefty the last week…

And the ones who bought Phantom 100% knew what they were in for.
They were buying unbalanced advantages over time, that was obvious.

I admit, right now he might be useless (I haven’t played that much, and not against medium-skilled Phantoms), but the Phantom-buyers knew what they bought.[/quote]

But that doesn’t justify a damn thing does it? That’s like giving shit to people who bought Rhino or Nader when they were released, and then pointing the finger and saying “ha” if they were nerfed. It’s nothing to laugh about, it’s detrimental to the game to make a merc basically have no real point in it’s existence.

Arty knows that feel, arguably his ability is what keeps him from being used over Kira or Skyhammer.

Ghosthree3 · 2015-07-23 16:59:05 UTC

[quote=“irishroy;52277”]Yeah, I know.
Nerfing often ends up by bashing an Item into the uselessness, but you also gotta admit that Phantom was pretty hefty the last week…[/quote]
I absolutely agree he had deserved nerfs coming. But I feel he got nerfed at least 3x as hard as he should have been.

Anaconda1 · 2015-07-23 17:00:56 UTC

All Melee got destroyed not just Phantom which sucks. I tried to switch over to play Melee as Aura but her Melee is ruined too. Why ruin ALL OF MELEE because of one guy?

AnemoneMeer · 2015-07-23 17:36:23 UTC

Something I think alot of people are missing is that phantom’s cloak isn’t just for sneaking. That bonus free HP it gives means you can afford to run through guarded routes, as you’re almost as tanky as rhino and are getting that HP back a few seconds later anyway.

Phantom’s kit is literally designed to let him slip through guarded areas, even if he has to get shot to do it. The fact they know you’re there doesn’t matter if you’re able to outrun most of them, and outshoot the rest, which due to kek-10 and katana, he can.

He’s stealthy, yes. He’s not Solid Snake. If you get shot a few times while cloaked, you’re not going to lose any HP. Just duck around a corner and back out of sight for a few seconds and continue circling them.

As for not having a role, Phantom is the best character in the game for clearing overlooks. Katana still hits like a truck, his SMG is great, he has the bonus HP and speed to actually get into overlooks via trickjumps and running across open ground safely, and once he gets up there, it’s a simple matter for him to oneshot the medic and then shoot his way through the rest before they can react. This is very visible in places like Chapel A where phantom can easily get behind enemy lines on either side, and pick up multiple kills.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-23 17:55:01 UTC

[quote=“AnemoneMeer;52316”]Something I think alot of people are missing is that phantom’s cloak isn’t just for sneaking. That bonus free HP it gives means you can afford to run through guarded routes, as you’re almost as tanky as rhino and are getting that HP back a few seconds later anyway.

Phantom’s kit is literally designed to let him slip through guarded areas, even if he has to get shot to do it. The fact they know you’re there doesn’t matter if you’re able to outrun most of them, and outshoot the rest, which due to kek-10 and katana, he can.

He’s stealthy, yes. He’s not Solid Snake. If you get shot a few times while cloaked, you’re not going to lose any HP. Just duck around a corner and back out of sight for a few seconds and continue circling them.

As for not having a role, Phantom is the best character in the game for clearing overlooks. Katana still hits like a truck, his SMG is great, he has the bonus HP and speed to actually get into overlooks via trickjumps and running across open ground safely, and once he gets up there, it’s a simple matter for him to oneshot the medic and then shoot his way through the rest before they can react. This is very visible in places like Chapel A where phantom can easily get behind enemy lines on either side, and pick up multiple kills.[/quote]

That bonus HP also means jack shit

Because otherwise you’d see Rhinos and Fraggers running in headfirst to do work…but you don’t. Rhino’s Minigun has to be up close to be of any use, and he gets whomped on when there’s a large number of people shooting him at once. Fragger’s hp gives extra durability, but you won’t see people rushing head first into a group, you dwindle down their numbers then overwhelm them with greater numbers, or try to fight one at a time.

Phantom’s cloak doesn’t protect him like you think it does, he can take some hits, but the moment he attacks he loses that advantage, but he has to attack of course because he’s already been spotted, so any advantage cloak should have given him doesn’t exist.

If the enemy can spot you walking toward them cloaked, it’s useless. Camoflauge works on the premise of hiding you until you make your strike, it’s useless once the enemy knows you’re there. And it’s pretty freaking obvious where he is because he sticks out like sore thumb.

Bu5hmast3r · 2015-07-23 17:59:26 UTC

Merci1ess · 2015-07-23 18:02:34 UTC

Welp. Overwatch anyone? Closed Beta comin’ out soon… Can’t wait.

Harlot · 2015-07-23 18:03:04 UTC

Bye Felicia.

irishrOy · 2015-07-23 18:03:16 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;52333”]
If the enemy can spot you walking toward them cloaked, it’s useless. Camoflauge works on the premise of hiding you until you make your strike, it’s useless once the enemy knows you’re there. And it’s pretty freaking obvious where he is because he sticks out like sore thumb.[/quote]

And what if his stealth was more stealthier and hearder to see, but doesn’t grant a fucking additional health-pool?
What if his stealth would be a stealth and nothing else?
As soon as you shoot him, he’d take normal damage?
Would that be “OK to you”?

Phantom would lose no offensive capabilities (AFAIK), but he would be more that Glass-cannon he’s supposed to be.

He could still run around cloaked with his Katana out, running around super-fast and pulling out that Kek10 if needed to while being as tanky as Fletcher.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-23 18:06:35 UTC

[quote=“irishroy;52348”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;52333”]
If the enemy can spot you walking toward them cloaked, it’s useless. Camoflauge works on the premise of hiding you until you make your strike, it’s useless once the enemy knows you’re there. And it’s pretty freaking obvious where he is because he sticks out like sore thumb.[/quote]

And what if his stealth was more stealthier and hearder to see, but doesn’t grant a fucking additional health-pool?
What if his stealth would be a stealth and nothing else?
As soon as you shoot him, he’d take normal damage?
Would that be “OK to you”?

Phantom would lose no offensive capabilities (AFAIK), but he would be more that Glass-cannon he’s supposed to be.

He could still run around cloaked with his Katana out, running around super-fast and pulling out that Kek10 if needed to while being as tanky as Fletcher.[/quote]

I’m fine with him having full invisibility and no armor, but I am not okay with him having to wait until he is fully uncloaked to begin attacking. Because by the time that process is done an enemy is already close to killing him, so any first attack advantage that cloak should have provided is gone.