Refunding Phantom

(Merci1ess) #141

So you bought him, didn’t play him yet! Spent 105 euros to get a cobalt and THEN! played him for 10 games before realizing you didn’t enjoy him. I guess that explains you as a person. Either it was mommy’s credit card, you just have a whole lot of money to spare or you’re just simply damaged. Whatever it is, you should just be quiet.

(NaIKoLDY) #142

little boy…i spend my own money…but i dont cry an complain…the thing i had to say was…ffs its a f2p game…its either fantasy money o u chose to spend real…and 1 thing u should know…i am newer gonna be quiet when boys with small peepee tell me to…

(deerMirror) #143

No, he really can’t. Maybe against level 5’s.

In fact, playing any merc intelligently will let you get ‘the drop on and ambush’ most people.

Let’s take Fragger, for example.
Not only does fragger have more health, more firepower, a better ability… and he can also ‘cloak’ by easily flanking those same level 5-6’s the same way a phantom would. But, with the added benefit of not making an obvious noise. Once behind a team, he can simply cook a nade and instagib a group of players. That’s definitely easier than it would be to fiddle with hitting fast moving targets with low DPI sword swings.

Not sure about you, but I don’t really see the benefit of having or even playing as a phantom with the other Merc choices out.

By the end of this weekend, he’ll be a ghost. Literally. You will rarely see him in a server.
If you don’t believe me, then I invite you to play him on a free weekend.

[/quote]

And that’s a really sad truth.

I don’t want to see him fade into the night, no merc should really. He needed changes, that was generally agreed but I believe they should look into changing his kit in general because he needs to be well… useful. He’s a bad recon that plays like a poor assault, that’s awful and it was even like that even before the nerfs!

(Ghosthree3) #144

He’s viable sure. But why should I now pick him over anything else?

(PurpleNurple) #145

Just because a merc isn’t viable as the rest it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play that merc. I really wish people would go back to playing games for fun rather than using winning as an excuse for fun. I play Arty sometimes because it’s so satisfying getting kills. When I play fletcher I do nothing but sticky people and knife. Phantom wasn’t ever a merc that should be used competitively. He should be that merc you play when you feel like screwing around not the one players choose because they want to top board with little effort. I mean even the merc himself acts like a dork.

“Weeee ooooo wee oooooo wee oooo”

“I’m like a shark, on land, with gun”

(Jojack) #146

Phantom is balanced now. I wish they would take him back to the drawing board but if they are going to stubbornly stick to this crazy stealth/tank design he’s in the best place he can be. It’s just a shit design that adds nothing to the game, but at least he’s balanced. You have to be sorta good to make him work now…just like every other merc out there.

Terrible players were putting up great kill numbers and killing team play. The nerf needed to happen if for no other reason than to make those crap players play a class that is designed for this game and maybe they will contribute.

I still can’t see the vision they had with this guy. Create a team oriented, objective based SHOOTER and then implement a character who separates himself from the team, ignores objectives and doesn’t SHOOT…by DESIGN!

Can’t make this stuff up.

(Jojack) #147

He’s viable sure. But why should I now pick him over anything else?[/quote]

You pick him because you like his play style. Why would you pick anyone other than Fragger, Sawbonez, or Bushwhacker if you are only concerned with using the best possible merc. Just look at Dirty Cups and see the majority of mercs that are completely ignored. Toss Phantom in that heap of “fun for pub but not viable for comp”. Why should he be so special to make you pick him over anyone else?

(RecurveZ) #148

you bought a merc him while beta is still going, do you really thought they wouldnt balance him?
by the way phantom can still do his job you’re just bad

(watsyurdeal) #149

He’s viable sure. But why should I now pick him over anything else?[/quote]

You pick him because you like his play style. Why would you pick anyone other than Fragger, Sawbonez, or Bushwhacker if you are only concerned with using the best possible merc. Just look at Dirty Cups and see the majority of mercs that are completely ignored. Toss Phantom in that heap of “fun for pub but not viable for comp”. Why should he be so special to make you pick him over anyone else?[/quote]

Because that’s terrible for balance, part of what makes comp interesting is having different strategies in certain circumstances.

I’ve seen Nader, Fragger, Rhino, Vasilli, Sawbonez, Aura, Skyhammer, Kira, and Bushwacka all used. The rest were not, either because the meta hasn’t evolved enough to where players have figured out where to use them, or because they don’t offer enough to be viable.

That makes the game bloated without actually having any substance, each merc should have specific niche or purpose that no other class can fill. If the devs are marketing this game as a competitive shooter, that’s what they need to do. Especially if they start enforcing that one of each merc per team rule.

(FrankeyStein) #150

Pre-patch he was an amazing merc and I truly had the best time yet playing Dirty Bomb, now he has nothing going for him, his stealth isn’t half usefull because you can see him even when he is static, the shield just doesn’t fit his playstyle and was wrong to implement in the first place, the health and cooldown changed aren’t that drastic but making the katana even more hard to use and nerfing his one and only ability to a point in which you might as well call it “weak shield” and not “stealth” just killed him as a merc, he isn’t special in any way any longer IMHO.
I support you with the idea that Nexon will make it possible to get a refund for him as this “Bait and Switch” tactic was a dirty move(No pun intended).

(Merci1ess) #151

[quote=“FrankeyStein;53145”]Pre-patch he was an amazing merc and I truly had the best time yet playing Dirty Bomb, now he has nothing going for him, his stealth isn’t half usefull because you can see him even when he is static, the shield just doesn’t fit his playstyle and was wrong to implement in the first place, the health and cooldown changed aren’t that drastic but making the katana even more hard to use and nerfing his one and only ability to a point in which you might as well call it “weak shield” and not “stealth” just killed him as a merc, he isn’t special in any way any longer IMHO.
I support you with the idea that Nexon will make it possible to get a refund for him as this “Bait and Switch” tactic was a dirty move(No pun intended).[/quote]

Right… I agree. What people don’t seem to understand here is the difference in how Phantom came out at first and how he is now. How do the devs fuck up so badly… that they feel the need to drastically nerf the living fuck out of him like they just did. I don’t mind little nerfs here, little nerfs there. Little tweaks here, little tweaks there. But this is shady considering the amount of changes he went through. It’s like you said “Bait and Switch”. There’s absolutely nothing positive about this change. It’s all changes that are pushing Phantom to the ground. He was just barely useful then against competent players and now he’s just completely useless.

(Jojack) #152

[quote=“vastMall;53183”]

[quote=“FrankeyStein;53145”]Pre-patch he was an amazing merc and I truly had the best time yet playing Dirty Bomb, now he has nothing going for him, his stealth isn’t half usefull because you can see him even when he is static, the shield just doesn’t fit his playstyle and was wrong to implement in the first place, the health and cooldown changed aren’t that drastic but making the katana even more hard to use and nerfing his one and only ability to a point in which you might as well call it “weak shield” and not “stealth” just killed him as a merc, he isn’t special in any way any longer IMHO.
I support you with the idea that Nexon will make it possible to get a refund for him as this “Bait and Switch” tactic was a dirty move(No pun intended).[/quote]

Right… I agree. What people don’t seem to understand here is the difference in how Phantom came out at first and how he is now. How do the devs fuck up so badly… that they feel the need to drastically nerf the living fuck out of him like they just did. I don’t mind little nerfs here, little nerfs there. Little tweaks here, little tweaks there. But this is shady considering the amount of changes he went through. It’s like you said “Bait and Switch”. There’s absolutely nothing positive about this change. It’s all changes that are pushing Phantom to the ground. He was just barely useful then against competent players and now he’s just completely useless.[/quote]

I understand why you would call it bait and switch. Personally, I have always hated the concept of a melee stealth character in a shooter. I dreaded the day Phantom would be released and my worst fears were realized. He ruined the flow of the game in a bad way.

So that’s my perspective. I think he has a place in this game, but his current design limits him to either pub stomper in the most frustrating way that even the worst of players could pile up kills (bad for retaining new players) or what we have now, a stealthish merc that requires a pretty good amount of game knowledge and experience to use to good effect.

There’s no doubt in my mind the Phantom we have now is much, much, much better for the health of the game was a whole. It’s still not the Phantom I prefer. He needs a pretty hefty re-design honestly. And it’s going to take a long time to get him right, because his concept just doesn’t fit the game. It’s like putting a square peg in a round hole in my opinion.

One thing I know pretty certainly, this isn’t the end product for Phantom. So Phantom lovers just need to stay patient.

(irishrOy) #153

[quote=“vastMall;53183”]
He was just barely useful then against competent players and now he’s just completely useless.[/quote]
Well, you also have to take into consideration that most of D:B’s players are casuals, not competent and skilled players.
So saying “Phantom is “balanced” because he can be countered by skilled players easily” may be right in itself, but the majority of the playerbase is not “that” skilled.

(watsyurdeal) #154

[quote=“irishroy;53456”][quote=“vastMall;53183”]
He was just barely useful then against competent players and now he’s just completely useless.[/quote]
Well, you also have to take into consideration that most of D:B’s players are casuals, not competent and skilled players.
So saying “Phantom is “balanced” because he can be countered by skilled players easily” may be right in itself, but the majority of the playerbase is not “that” skilled.

[/quote]

But the problem with that is that players CAN get better, so why should we nerf things for that skill level?

That just lowers the standards of the game, not saying Phantom didn’t need to be tweaked but I have real problem with that logic. I mean why not just makes Snipers kill everyone in one hit since not everyone can nail their headshots so easily?

(Ghosthree3) #155

I’m cross posting because there’s too many threads on this issue right now and I posted in the wrong one.

There’s no doubt he can still do work. My problem with him right now is that because the cloak doesn’t really cloak and only acts as a small shield, he’s essentially Fragger with a worse weapon and no grenades. By my definition, he’s useless.

Take this example, if we took an exact copy of Fragger and put him in the game calling him Fragger2 but removed his grenades would anyone consider him useful? Sure he can still do his job getting kills, but there’s really just no reason to play him when original Fragger does his job better.

And yes, I realise he’s not an ‘assault’ class, and that he is a ‘recon’ class. But he’s not any more is he, not with the cloak as it is now.

(affableTricycle) #156

[quote=“Ghosthree3;53807”]I’m cross posting because there’s too many threads on this issue right now and I posted in the wrong one.

There’s no doubt he can still do work. My problem with him right now is that because the cloak doesn’t really cloak and only acts as a small shield, he’s essentially Fragger with a worse weapon and no grenades. By my definition, he’s useless.

Take this example, if we took an exact copy of Fragger and put him in the game calling him Fragger2 but removed his grenades would anyone consider him useful? Sure he can still do his job getting kills, but there’s really just no reason to play him when original Fragger does his job better.

And yes, I realise he’s not an ‘assault’ class, and that he is a ‘recon’ class. But he’s not any more is he, not with the cloak as it is now.[/quote]

They really ought to rework him into a proper recon class. Make the cloak less visible, not more. Replace his primaries with machine pistols. Then give him the ability to spot enemies he has a line of sight on by pressing E, causing them to show up as if they’ve been detected by a heartbeat sensor.

(Merci1ess) #157

[quote=“irishroy;53456”][quote=“vastMall;53183”]
He was just barely useful then against competent players and now he’s just completely useless.[/quote]
Well, you also have to take into consideration that most of D:B’s players are casuals, not competent and skilled players.
So saying “Phantom is “balanced” because he can be countered by skilled players easily” may be right in itself, but the majority of the playerbase is not “that” skilled.

[/quote]

It doesn’t make any sense if we’re gonna go around nerfing mercenaries because the majority of players are not skilled enough to counter them. It’s just not fair for the player that enjoys playing that particular mercenary. At the end of the day, that’s just gonna become a problem. Because bad players will become good with practice and good players will only become better. Where will Phantom stand then? Oh he’ll get a buff when the majority of the player base becomes better? No. You don’t nerf mercenaries because the players that play them are good/competent or because the bad players can’t find a way to beat them… That’s just plain stupid. That’s not the way it’s supposed to work. Keep playin’, stop cryin’, practice and you’ll figure out how to beat him. It really wasn’t all that hard to counter him to begin with.

Like @Ghosthree3 said. He’s basically a Fragger now with no grenades with also less health… and a shittier gun. What’s the point? Oh his now barely invisibility shield? Please…

(titaniumCrouton) #158

[quote=“affableTricycle;53875”][quote=“Ghosthree3;53807”]I’m cross posting because there’s too many threads on this issue right now and I posted in the wrong one.

There’s no doubt he can still do work. My problem with him right now is that because the cloak doesn’t really cloak and only acts as a small shield, he’s essentially Fragger with a worse weapon and no grenades. By my definition, he’s useless.

Take this example, if we took an exact copy of Fragger and put him in the game calling him Fragger2 but removed his grenades would anyone consider him useful? Sure he can still do his job getting kills, but there’s really just no reason to play him when original Fragger does his job better.

And yes, I realise he’s not an ‘assault’ class, and that he is a ‘recon’ class. But he’s not any more is he, not with the cloak as it is now.[/quote]

They really ought to rework him into a proper recon class. Make the cloak less visible, not more. Replace his primaries with machine pistols. Then give him the ability to spot enemies he has a line of sight on by pressing E, causing them to show up as if they’ve been detected by a heartbeat sensor.[/quote]

So you want to give him a good cloak but make him completely useless other wise? >_>…No. His SMGs are fine. So sick of people trying to kill the class.