Rahdo's words - what happened here?

[MoonOnAStick]

[QUOTE=coolstory;357598]Why doesn’t SD do the sensible thing and releases SDK on the pc? There are lot of talented programers here who could help you out…and make the game better for competitive and pub play.[/QUOTE]Honest question, is there anyone you know of who would be willing to make a promod? What percentage of the remaining PC players have the skills and the time necessary to modify Brink? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see an SDK but it seems like a pretty small pool of potential devs

[Spendlove]

As some people seemingly can’t play nice or see eye to eye or even be vaguely mature about anything these days, here is how to ignore any posts a forum member makes.

Select - My dashboard/edit ignore list/(enter forum members name)/click on “Okay”.

Problem solved!

Spend x

[Chris2]

No, you are. I read every single page in this thread, and I can’t believe that’s your response. Sorry, but you are not gonna discount my point and posts. I never told anyone to shut up or go play something else, I suggested that they look for something they do like. Thanks for trying though. The brush hit you I guess, but for good reason.

And this means what exactly?

Not everyone wants to mold Brink into their game of choice is what I’m trying to say while you seem to think everyone who doesn’t like Brink does want that. People want a finished game with features they expect from the studio that brought us ET and ET:QW, by their own admission they have said they haven’t been able to deliver what they would have liked to in some regards due to time limitations and staff shortages.

That last two pages have been discussing the game in light of this, no trolling as you seem to think, criticism isn’t the same as trolling. If you had read shirosae’s posts you would have gathered as much.

I would even argue the point that the only troll today on this thread has been yourself…

Honest question, is there anyone you know of who would be willing to make a promod? What percentage of the remaining PC players have the skills and the time necessary to modify Brink? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see an SDK but it seems like a pretty small pool of potential devs

People are still using the ET:QW SDK

[kilL_888]

This is what I am talking about. He clearly states: he doesn’t like Brink. That’s what many, many other people need to figure out, rather than trying to morph Brink in to <insert game that you are comfortable with here>.

i can only speak for myself here… i think brink is indeed the next wolfenstein. it has almost everything what et defines for me. i go even as far and accept the design decisions that has been made like “no ammo boxes” and stuff. though, the question “why” persists.

anyways. my impression, reflecting this forum, is that people dont want brink changed into another game. “we” dont want it cod’ified. we are happy with the game as it is, more or less.

but what “we” want to get changed are the lag issues. the performance issues. the imbalance. the interaction glitches. the auto follow, auto focus. interface costumization. this sort of stuff. this wont change the game itself, but makes it a whole lot of more comfortable to play and enjoy.

some of these issues can be fixed with the unlocking of some cvars. i personally would be as twice as happy with brink if i could deactivate the interaction symbols (on players, objectives, command posts…) these values are currently locked. they exist and they work with /devmap. why cant these be unlocked?

g_interactionforecolor
g_interactionbackcolor
g_interactionselectedfore
g_interactionselectedback

unlock these 4 cvars and i actually would be twice as happy when i play brink. these are no cheats and they are no advancement. all the do, or all i want to do with them, is to reduce the alpha value, or deactivate completely.

yea, so this is the stuff “we” would like to see changed. this wont change the game. the game is fine. but it could be so much better if we would get some more freedom in costumization. it would be so much better if we could do things our own, without letting a buggy system autofollow/autofocus other players. let “us” do these things. we can handle it.

this is what we want. or at least thats what i would like to see changed.

[Apoc]

Pretty much a novel

Jesus Rahdo, chill out xD

People dont need essays written in response, and no one needs to jepordise their marriage to talk to people xD Literally just respond to say a single post once or twice a week, on a topic you feel you can shed light to…no need for longer a sentance or 2 so about a minute spent. Making that 2 mins a week which im sure your wife would be ok with.

Also thanks for the huge response, i did read it. Just please take into consideration releasing the SDK, if you have insufficient resources, then allow others to do the work for you.

Also dont talk about how SD didnt have enough time to put in some important features and just end it there. You have all the time in the world now. Please try to complete the game you released before just giving up and hoping your next game is better…

[ras]

[QUOTE=>< V ><;357607]Taking the time to face the music of the PC complaints is definitely something I can respect, so thanks Rahdo.

Unfortunately, I still don’t like Brink and never will. It’s ET with training wheels welded on.

W:ET was so much more than just an objective based team game. It also had great gun mechanics. Dancing with your opponent because of lower damage weapons was fun. Out sniping another sniper because it came down to who could best recoil and put their aim back on target was fun. Strafe jumping is vaslty more fun then simply getting the timing right on when to hit SMART again to get another automated movement. Being able to plant dynamites where you want is vastly more fun then knowing exactly where each dynamite is going to be planted everytime.

Throwing medpacks is so much more fun than throwing a buff, whether it be, I can control where the medpack goes, I can place them down in a strategic way, I can throw them at a teammate engaged in battle, but be careful that the enemy doesn’t get to it and heal. It’s also better for teamplay as players have to look for the medic to heal, instead of this health regeneration. Some of the most rewarding moments in W:ET was being an engineer with 10 hp and finally sneaking your way into the objective and winning. That tension with Brink is practically gone with health regeneration.

Watching a helmet tink off your opponent was always satisfying. Having character models bounce around from explosions in W:ET led to many a good laugh. Having vsays was another way to interact with players, whether if be goofying around or giving good information. Being able to plant a dynamite in a non-objective area, being able to throw a landmine at my teammates face, risking my life to cover an airstrike marker to stop the airstrike. Do you know that stupid little chair in W:ET? Do you know how many hours and hours of fun many, many people had just pushing that chair around and shooting it?

I can appreciate that SD wanted to reach a larger audience, but why take away so many, many choices, freedoms, different ways we could play W:ET with this Big Government way of doing Brink, that you do it this way or you don’t do it at all? I don’t care that Brink isn’t Axis and Allies or Strogg and GDF. I don’t care that Brink is not in WWII or aliens versus humans. What I care about is that so many, many things that made W:ET the best FPS team objective game ever, the core mechanics and the finer details, are gone and replaced with one button does all, you have to put your mine here, you have to plant here, you have to go through this major chokepoint, you have to play this part of the map and no more planting landmines elsewhere in anticipation you will break the first objective.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t play W:ET, but the core of much of what you said applies to me and what I miss as a competitive ET:QW player who moved on to Brink. And I understand that ET:QW can be considered a scrub’s game compared to the likes of W:ET. But at least (to me) it maintained the identity of a PC title, where one could use his superior aim and movement to outplay an opponent.

I was featured in a lot of those Brink TV matches (ergo, I have experience playing at the top level), and I can say that the gunfights in Brink boil down to who has the most buffs and who wins the relative roll of the dice that is the weapon spread. Sometimes you drop someone instantly, and sometimes your shots air ball despite not aiming any differently. I’m not trying to say that the gunplay is so lotto that a pro will often lose to a random pubber, but it really lowers the skill gap. But either way, the gun play is a far cry from rewarding.

I truly respect and appreciate the time you took to post, but looking at W:ET as just a team objective game is why Brink is so shallow. I am truly amazed that SD couldn’t even realise the importance of recognizing a character class in battle so one can prioritize. Brink may be a step forward monetarily, but it is a step backward for gaming.

Splash Damage is foremost a business, and I’m not blaming them for that. They can’t release a game similar to W:ET as it would be impossible to play on consoles chiefly because of its pace. But it really is a shame to see the death of fast-paced shooters like that where individual skill really shines through and a player’s individual skill is something to be admired. Nowadays, all it is is camping and hoping you get the first shot and the lucky spread. It wouldn’t surprise nor insult me in the least if a spectator during the Brink TV matches was thinking to himself, “big deal, I could do that.” Then you look at something like a Quake 3 match and you think to yourself, “wow, I could never do that in a million years.”

It’s a shame, but again - I can’t blame Splash Damage for making smart business decisions.

[Kendle]

Whilst I appreciate Radho coming here and posting, at length, in the way he has I have to say it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

At the end of the end SD are a business, and they’ve produced a product that was purchased by 100’s of 1,000’s of people, for money, real money, and 2 months later ALMOST EVERYONE who purchased that product is no longer using it. How anyone at SD’s offices can pat anyone else on the back for a job well done defies belief, and yet radho seems proud of what they’ve achieved ??

I’m pretty sure if my firm sold sub-standard goods our response to our customers wouldn’t be “heh, we’re sorry you don’t like the product, but ya know, we’re only human”. Or that to answer our customers concerns we’d fail to answer the phone Monday - Friday and then call them on Sunday and remind them, several times, that this actually was a Sunday and we have real lifes so be grateful.

The best advice I can give SD is release the SDK, because the awful truth is they just don’t seem to understand what they did wrong.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=.Chris.;357625]And this means what exactly?

Not everyone wants to mold Brink into their game of choice is what I’m trying to say while you seem to think everyone who doesn’t like Brink does want that. People want a finished game with features they expect from the studio that brought us ET and ET:QW, by their own admission they have said they haven’t been able to deliver what they would have liked to in some regards due to time limitations and staff shortages.

That last two pages have been discussing the game in light of this, no trolling as you seem to think, criticism isn’t the same as trolling. If you had read shirosae’s posts you would have gathered as much.

I would even argue the point that the only troll today on this thread has been yourself…

People are still using the ET:QW SDK :)[/QUOTE]
Dude, you make my entire point! I never called anyone a troll, now did I? But you imply that I am? How’s that for cool?

[thesuzukimethod]

this thread might be to the point where people aren’t reading all the posts (i did, whew) so this may just go into the Internet ether, but I would like to:

-say thank you to Rahdo for posting and taking the time to reply to specifics…in detail. really nice/helpful/interesting

-say thank you to all the people who have been here for a while. This is one of the only gaming forums that I’m active on, mainly b/c it actually feels like there’s a community…much of this is owed to the pc folks who established a strong following of SD associated projects, which created a bit of critical mass for those of us who were a bit later arriving to the SD game, and were delighted to find such an active community, complete with dialogue with game designers, programmers, creative directors, etc.

-say thank you to all the folks logging their constructive criticism/comments…this shows a passion for the game and must be valuable data for SD (and any other game company who might be trawling for data here (i would be!)), even if they cant implement everything, or not on a timeline we might prefer. I hope you can understand that some of us who arrived late (see above point) came here b/c we really really like the game, so some of the nastier comments create a bit of cognitive dissonance on our part = some of the friction in the forums.

eagerly awaiting the patch/dlc…curious to see what’s next.

[BomBaKlaK]

If SD have some Problems of staff shortage or time limitation why do they nor communicate at all !?
It’s better to be transparent and have some support than been trolling to death cause they not say a single word about what’s happen, and what they doing to try to improve the game experience ! maybe due to bethesda but there is a huge problem about communication ! that’s a fact !

And customer need some awnsers or at least some news on your game imprvement (more than 0 is not difficult to do I think.)

[neg]

[QUOTE=Kendle;357633]Whilst I appreciate Radho coming here and posting, at length, in the way he has I have to say it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

At the end of the end SD are a business, and they’ve produced a product that was purchased by 100’s of 1,000’s of people, for money, real money, and 2 months later ALMOST EVERYONE who purchased that product is no longer using it. How anyone at SD’s offices can pat anyone else on the back for a job well done defies belief, and yet radho seems proud of what they’ve achieved ??

I’m pretty sure if my firm sold sub-standard goods our response to our customers wouldn’t be “heh, we’re sorry you don’t like the product, but ya know, we’re only human”. Or that to answer our customers concerns we’d fail to answer the phone Monday - Friday and then call them on Sunday and remind them, several times, that this actually was a Sunday and we have real lifes so be grateful.

The best advice I can give SD is release the SDK, because the awful truth is they just don’t seem to understand what they did wrong.[/QUOTE]
well said, they havent released any info about the SDK since before the game was released, even though afaik they said they would release it within 2-3weeks of releasing the game

SD’s policy of no information pretty much destroyed the game itself, blaring bugs are easy to look past if players know they are actually getting fixed

[XVX]

Wolf, this isn’t about W:ET 2 or ET:QW 2, this is about wanting a product that rivals their past work. SD is solely responsible for three games and two of them are the best team based shooters ever. And while I have given up on Brink, I haven’t given up on SD. All I can do to try and get another great game from SD is post here.

Ras, I watched every GreasedScotsman cast of ET:QW matches. Thanks for the great games. Here’s to the future that such games can happen again from an SD title.

:stroggtapir:

[INF3RN0]

Well, I think from Radho’s post SD is taking some responsibility for the console-like qualities of Brink PC, which was due in-part to Bethesda giving them a fixed release date. I hope that the amount of sales across platforms is not interpreted as a reflection of the success of Brink though, but instead the amount of people that still play. It should be clear that creating a game across 3 platforms might be a little too much for a company like SD to swallow. I can only hope that in the future you guys handle your projects a bit more independently to ensure their long lasting quality. I don’t think anyone minds waiting as long as it takes to get a finished product on their platform, even if it means they get it last. The PC community was SD longest following fan base as all previous titles were PC specific, so we have very specific demands for game features. Considering a lot of the people who bought into Brink PC have been supporting SD games for a long time, I am sure you can understand why there are so many hyper-aggressively passionate forum users who keep trying to force SD to fix Brink for PC or are just flat out making death threats lol. Realistically though, I just ask you do it better next time and don’t forget about your original fan boiz (even if that means making the game play completely different on console).

[peteXnasty]

I’m sure wolf had me on ignore becauae he knows I’m right

But telling everyone who had problems with the game to just enjoy it for what is, is stupid. I can’t enjoy soiled milk for what it its because its spoiled.

We post here because the game is not working and it is failing and we want to see it improve. You and your little crew are hurting the game by trying to brand everyone, and there are lots of us, that dislikes the game as is as a troll. Shut up and go away.

Constructive criticism. Harsh, but constructive. look up how to act like an adult because if you have a kid like you say, hes doomed if youre raising him

[Kinjal]

Hello Rahdo

Some of your words -

“There were dozens of videos, hours and hours of footage showing exactly how the game worked before we shipped”.

On PC? Sorry I don’t remember any Pc footage , or PC version demonstrations prior to release

“Our UI needs dogged us till the day we shipped, and a lot of thing that we (I) desperately wanted to get in, like this feature, couldn’t make it, because of manpower issues”.

And again

“manpower issues”

And then -

“higher priority features”

Then u talking about priority, let’s face it - the priority is a console market, then ETQW was made all “manpower” was on PC (100%) , but if u making a multiplatform game , u need a main platform (BF3 – PC, COD – x-box), there was never been an utopia of “we develop for all 3 versions in…”, so why are u telling us about “manpower issues”, its normal issues if u spent a 20-30% of people on PC version and the rest on console.

“There were reasons it was taken out”

The reason – it’s not a PC game in first place

“I wanted the game to be the best it could be”

U wanted to sell as much as u can. I can’t blame u.

“And we’re continuing to focus on improvements for you too. Clearly we’re working to improve the PC experience”.

Where is SDK?

“it would have been so much easier to ignore PC, but we didn’t want to do that”

Of course, 100k of sold copies is never a bad thing.

“Throughout Brinks development, we were trying to maintain a delicate balancing act between console and PC”

Like 70/30?

“WolfNem is now my new personal hero”.

Don’t worry, soon there will be a tons of guys like him here and all PC players will gone, anyway why PC players will sit on forum of Console developer.

“Kin, can you point me to that? I’d like to answer it there. Thanks!”

http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=news&mode=item&id=6822
“

I’m sorry NAME, you and I clearly don’t see eye to eye on this, so I’m not sure what more we can talk about. Hope you find another game that you enjoy playing, and sorry Brink wasn’t for you”.

Very good post, u can address it to any PC player.

“we didn’t want to give up on our traditional fans”

U already did it

[tokamak]

we got a fair bit of negative critism about how the guns “don’t feel as good as CoD”, and we knew we’d get hit with that, because we were going for lower damage weapons. Why? Because we wanted to be true (as we could be) to the core gameplay that the ET games have already had, so that was a conscious sacrifice to our review scores we knew we were making to make the game more PC comp centric.

I got a headache just reading this. I don´t even know where to start.

The whole deal is just incredibly frustrating, I’ll see if I can stomach writing a more elaborate response but for now let’s just say I’m glad the emperor still likes his new clothes.

[coolstory]

we got a fair bit of negative critism about how the guns “don’t feel as good as CoD”, and we knew we’d get hit with that, because we were going for lower damage weapons. Why? Because we wanted to be true (as we could be) to the core gameplay that the ET games have already had, so that was a conscious sacrifice to our review scores we knew we were making to make the game more PC comp centric.

Don’t know what SD was thinking. Lower damage weapons is a good thing imo but it’s pointless if you also add random spread.

[sereNADE]

Honest question, is there anyone you know of who would be willing to make a promod? What percentage of the remaining PC players have the skills and the time necessary to modify Brink? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see an SDK but it seems like a pretty small pool of potential devs

I was hoping to use the sdk to make brink more suitable to my own clan’s pub play. Only 2 of our orginal 20 brink players still play semi-regularly so I have given up the idea of fixes I had in mind (we all went back to etqw). I am unable to make a pro mod as I am not qualified to address those needs.

[coolstory]

I was hoping to use the sdk to make brink more suitable to my own clan’s pub play. Only 2 of our orginal 20 brink players still play semi-regularly so I have given up the idea of fixes I had in mind (we all went back to etqw). I am unable to make a pro mod as I am not qualified to address those needs.

They should make etqw free

[SockDog]

Firstly thanks Rahdo. I appreciate you not only taking the time to post but also exposing yourself to what must be a ton of frustration. It’s awesome that you share the facts and understandable that opinions don’t always end well.

The approach you’ve taken with Brink PC though; make a game, then consider PC at the end. This is not going to work. If you truly want to make great multiplatform games, you need to consider that your platforms are different. Dedicated servers are not a sacrifice. They’re a necessity. If you want to avoid having your next game die like Brink has, you’re going to need to understand that your game has to adapt to each of those platforms, and get that in from the very start.

From a great post I have to pull this quote out as it mirrors my own sentiments 100%.

All I could add is that it seems the PC market is more inclined to slow consistent growth rather than just release bursts. Valve has proven this several times over. The game may have sold only a 10th of the numbers that the consoles did (speculation) but had the heart not been sacrificed then the playerbase could have driven sales for the next few years. This, IMO, is how you address the smaller markets, by modifying your expectations and strategy not lowering them and as a result lowering the quality of your product.