Rahdo's words - what happened here?

[Jess_Alon]

I love that Rahdo took time out of his busy schedule to address issues and he got totally trolled on the same page he posted on.

[neg]

[QUOTE=Rahdo;357591]
As I said, we’re still hiring! :)[/QUOTE]
so you guys didnt have the necessary people to do the work to start with or just lost people mid way through development?

[QUOTE=Rahdo;357591]
I don’t think that’s the case, actually. In fact, we almost never spoke about tournament/comp play in any of our interviews. We always talked about pub play. Got any links?[/QUOTE]
i cant remember exactly which video it was in, im pretty sure it was something Paul himself was talking about at one of the conventions when you guys were doing your media related stuff

[QUOTE=Rahdo;357591]
I’m sorry Neg, you and I clearly don’t see eye to eye on this, so I’m not sure what more we can talk about. Hope you find another game that you enjoy playing, and sorry Brink wasn’t for you.[/QUOTE]
actually i wanted Brink to succceed as much as you did, since there have been fewer and fewer PC games that have been of any decent quality, and considering your track record with ET/ETQW games that i played for many years, i was willing to take the leap of faith and hope you would patch the PC version of the game into something quality, or atleast let mod makers have their way with the PC version through the SDK as you have done with your previous games, and it was said pre-release that the SDK would be released 2-3weeks after the intial roll out of the game

dont blame you for how the game has done in terms of sales and player base, you collectively at Splashdamage had a good idea/ip in regards to Brink, its just too bad it was so poorly executed, and i assume some or most of the blame can be put on Bethesda’s shoulders in terms of release schedule, not to mention like ive said before the extremely poor QA for the PC side of things, i for one would welcome it if you could get the guys over there to start a thread in the General forums with what you guys are currently working on and what you hope to be working on, no Dates required just info thats there so we know that you arnt just doing nothing as having the current ‘information blackout’ on everything is hurting you more than doing good

[QUOTE=sereNADE;357586]I think footage and official videos detailing brink features and gameplay were there beforehand as fair warning to PC gamers. Plenty of alarms sounded here in the forums months before release as to what we were getting into. Did you not sense any warning whatsoever? What part of “blurs the line between single player and multiplayer” does not tingle your spider sense? That was a core “in your face” part of BRINK’s claim to being BRINK that hurt to see upon release as much as we knew it would when we were waiting for it over a year ago.

At least one person avoided BRINK (apples) and another person purchased BRINK for PC full well knowing it was a “console” game. They knew what they were getting simply from the official promotional material and from the SD forum discussions prior to release.[/QUOTE]

i dont disagree that the game looked consolized, some could of assumed it was just because it was being played on consoles and not PC’s at most of the Games Conventions, but i guess our worst fears were realized when the game actually came out, even though it still had alot of potential… if alot of the issues could of been modded out and or fixed by SD themselves

[shirosae]

Wow, well I DEFINITELY didn’t mean to come across that way.

Glad to hear it.

As I say, I didn’t believe it, but with people being a bit touchy as they are, I thought it might be worth mentioning.

I understand, and I agree. We need to get better at this level of conversation with you guys. I can’t do that from home, and honestly, I don’t have the chop to speak authoritatively about it anyway, I’ll tell you that right now. All I can say from my couch here is that you’re right, and we can be more detailed in the back and forth, and the conversation would be better for it.

I feel a little bad that you feel that it’s just down to you to do it all yourself. This is the sort of thing SD as a whole could really use, to iterate through ideas with feedback right away, building an FPS game with a core that’s survived the grilling from a community that knows how to break games, and then use it in your multiplatform goal. You could use the community to make your console games better.

That’s something SD should really be aiming to use, I would have thought, rather than you on your own trying to interact by yourself.

The kind of points you’re bringing up in this post here, about the conflict between the stats on the weapons as they exist, and the intended way to use them, is, I agree, the kind of stuff that ideally we’d all be working together to go through. I’m sure our side and the player base won’t always see eye to eye on every detail, but ideally we should be talking about them (the way you and I used to about body type locks, IIRC).

Yep, the bodytype thing was the biggest one. I just think you could put a couple of options in to suit different platforms. Like the settings on SF2 Turbo. It doesn’t need to be a blanket package just because all of the different versions share the same IP.

But as mentioned above, I can’t make promises for anyone here, because I’ve obviously done too much of that in the past…

Honestly, you shouldn’t need to. SD have a community here that’s willing to put in a lot of effort helping them out. That alone is one of the strongest things the custom community has; that immediate feedback. I would have thought SD would value it enough to try using it, though I accept that’s easier said than done.

No offense taken. I’ve always enjoyed our back and forths, as you know. I hope we can have them again in the future!

Don’t spoil WN75’s white knight complex!

Seriously, it’s always been fun (and almost unqiue!) being around a studio that’s willing to communicate, and I’ve always appreciated that you’re willing to stick your head in and talk, even if you risk getting it chopped off. I’ll be about for a while yet.

[Humate]

That is an excellent quote to bring up, because it does cut to the heart of a lot of the problems

I thought it was excellent too. The “lets not mince words” was fitting considering the context of the thread.

If I could have made more time to continue connecting with you guys directly, then after that out of context quote came out, I could have gotten online and meant what that actually meant. But instead, we were too busy making the game, and stuff fell between the cracks, and I didn’t do as good a job as I should have talking to you guys, and that’s defintely something I regret… there should have been more two way communication throughout the games dev. Apologize for that (and I’m at 2 hours of my sunday now, but I will see this through).

Im not suggesting that you deliberately played a bait and switch game. But it will and it has been perceived that way. What I do think however, is that even if you did have time to explain all the misinformation out there - I dont think its something that would have been in your best interest to correct. Maybe after release

For other players, ET means something completely different.

Did you come to that conclusion now, or before you actually said it?
Not that it matters, I’m just curious.

[coolstory]

Why doesn’t SD do the sensible thing and releases SDK on the pc? There are lot of talented programers here who could help you out…and make the game better for competitive and pub play.

Also the guns…you made a game that was advertised as always be moving yet you guys made the guns horrible when your moving…kinda dumb don’t u think?

[Seiniyta]

Well, it’s awesome you responded here. It does seem Splash Damage started with something which was bigger then the company itself. As the game currently is, despite it’s lacking in area’s it’s still fun. Especially when you a pub team that’s really trying their best to complete the objective whilst I’m happily busy trying to see how I can abuse the Smart system to move faster across the terrain.

It would be cool though if SD would implement the things they wanted in Brink still and then copy paste to Brink 2 if it’s well received

[QUOTE=coolstory;357598]Why doesn’t SD do the sensible thing and releases SDK on the pc? There are lot of talented programers here who could help you out…and make the game better for competitive and pub play.

Also the guns…you made a game that was advertised as always be moving yet you guys made the guns horrible when your moving…kinda dumb don’t u think?[/QUOTE]

Badman explained this, the tools they use simply don’t work wtih the retail game so they just can’t release it. They need to develop. They do want to though, they just don’t have the time and resources (yet) to do so.

[AnthonyDa]

Honestly, I’d guestimate that would have taken a week of coder time, plus a maybe 2 or 3 man weeks of character artist time? Making our character models with the customization system we’ve got is very complex and time consuming, and we had a very small character art team. They did an amazing job producing as much content as they did. On the code side, the actual task of setting something like that up wouldn’t have taken too long, a day, maybe a day and a half at most. But the you put the testing time on, and the time to fix bugs (because something like this, that touches several different system, would cause a bunch of bugs), eats into one’s schedule really really fast, especially when it can cause different bugs on different platforms…

Yet another post showing us that the whole customization hurt the game a lot.

I’m still convinced that all the resources spent for this “extra” feature who have been better used to balance the game and the whole gameplay experience.

Everytime I heard somebody talking about BRINK, it’s about how bad the game is balanced or how bad the gun feeling is, not the customization system.
Maybe you should have bring that like TF2 did? Which means that it only a little element (ex: HATZ) added to a very charismatic class who still allows you to see which class you are fighting with a single glimpse of an eye. Plus they added this system way after the first release of the game.

Also, don’t force us to play a game that we dislike naturally (ref to “WolfNem is now my new personal hero”). It’s not about comparing it to W:ET or ET:QW, but the game itself isn’t enjoyable at this state, for all the reasons stated across this forum.

But thanks for spending for time around here anyway

[wolfnemesis75]

It still blows me away everyday how little Brink gets talked about in this forum compared to “other games”. I am sure that’s a turn-off to perspective gamers who’d like to post about Brink. Not only that, but I know the negativity has a way of turning folks off. Where are the threads about strategies on maps? Where are the threads about best tactics as a particular class? What happens when a thread is posted by someone who likes Brink and wants to talk passionately about it? And if you do you have to exaggerate it and add a disclaimer like: “not for the haters”. Where are the maps specific strategies or discussions beyond “this map sucks”? And if one does try to talk strategy it gets completely obliterated by peeps who “claim superiority” and thus discount a discussion, or want to talk about an entirely different game? How the heck is ET:QW gonna help me play Brink?

I personally get sooo tired of threads like this. And it is hard not to get frustrated by them. Never seen a forum before where people who like the game in the forum for the game are called fanboys. Its like some freaky asylum where is not cool to like the game! It blows me away that Rahdo took the time, and continues to respond. I wish there was a separate forum for these kinds of threads and discussions. Who cares about this old interview? I can answer that one easily enough: all the people who don’t like Brink! It gets tiring. I know for a fact that many people who like Brink will not post here at all because of this “atmosphere”. Its one thing to complain about the complainers. But this is complaining about complainers who want a different game entirely!

Can you possibly create some kind of sub forum for folk who want ET:QW2 or ET3 or COD:Brink? I know that you won’t or cannot, but at least I thought I’d throw it out there so other’s can see. If people are gonna vent their frustration and its ok, then I am gonna vent my frustration as well. This is certainly a post-mortem.

Its like playing Monday Morning Quarterback. Only, the bizaro version.
I am still glad I joined the asylum. At least I get to talk about Brink in some fashion…even if its merely to argue with folks who don’t like it. Especially when I am somehow a troll simply for liking the dang game:tongue:

[coolstory]

annoying txt

Stop posting here then and go post about your dumb strategies. No ones stopping you.

[neg]

Stop posting here then and go post about your dumb strategies. No ones stopping you.

agreed, did you even read the thread wolfnemesis? or just skim to the very end?
because it looks like you didnt read anything

[Chris2]

He thinks the game is perfect which is fine for him but a lot of folk out there don’t think that and want things fixed hence threads like this popping up all over the place, there has been some nice discussion happening amongst all the crap in this thread which he has clearly missed, even on the past 2 pages!

[sereNADE]

Enjoyed the responses, Rahdo, thanks. Maybe I’ll go enjoy a round or two of brink to celebrate.

[XVX]

Taking the time to face the music of the PC complaints is definitely something I can respect, so thanks Rahdo.

Unfortunately, I still don’t like Brink and never will. It’s ET with training wheels welded on.

W:ET was so much more than just an objective based team game. It also had great gun mechanics. Dancing with your opponent because of lower damage weapons was fun. Out sniping another sniper because it came down to who could best recoil and put their aim back on target was fun. Strafe jumping is vaslty more fun then simply getting the timing right on when to hit SMART again to get another automated movement. Being able to plant dynamites where you want is vastly more fun then knowing exactly where each dynamite is going to be planted everytime.

Throwing medpacks is so much more fun than throwing a buff, whether it be, I can control where the medpack goes, I can place them down in a strategic way, I can throw them at a teammate engaged in battle, but be careful that the enemy doesn’t get to it and heal. It’s also better for teamplay as players have to look for the medic to heal, instead of this health regeneration. Some of the most rewarding moments in W:ET was being an engineer with 10 hp and finally sneaking your way into the objective and winning. That tension with Brink is practically gone with health regeneration.

Watching a helmet tink off your opponent was always satisfying. Having character models bounce around from explosions in W:ET led to many a good laugh. Having vsays was another way to interact with players, whether if be goofying around or giving good information. Being able to plant a dynamite in a non-objective area, being able to throw a landmine at my teammates face, risking my life to cover an airstrike marker to stop the airstrike. Do you know that stupid little chair in W:ET? Do you know how many hours and hours of fun many, many people had just pushing that chair around and shooting it?

I can appreciate that SD wanted to reach a larger audience, but why take away so many, many choices, freedoms, different ways we could play W:ET with this Big Government way of doing Brink, that you do it this way or you don’t do it at all? I don’t care that Brink isn’t Axis and Allies or Strogg and GDF. I don’t care that Brink is not in WWII or aliens versus humans. What I care about is that so many, many things that made W:ET the best FPS team objective game ever, the core mechanics and the finer details, are gone and replaced with one button does all, you have to put your mine here, you have to plant here, you have to go through this major chokepoint, you have to play this part of the map and no more planting landmines elsewhere in anticipation you will break the first objective.

I truly respect and appreciate the time you took to post, but looking at W:ET as just a team objective game is why Brink is so shallow. I am truly amazed that SD couldn’t even realise the importance of recognizing a character class in battle so one can prioritize. Brink may be a step forward monetarily, but it is a step backward for gaming.

I still play W:ET and ET:QW, but I also play some fairly newer games like Left 4 Dead and Killing Floor, which have many elements that remind me of what made W:ET fun. And I don’t understand why you had to remove these funs elements to have Brink appeal to a wider audience.

[peteXnasty]

One: shut up wolfnemesis

Two: I appreciate rahdo for posting but I disagree with it all.

Keep in mind I have a giant wall display for brink next to my tv. I have press event tshirts. Lanyards. And I really dislike the game .

Your justification for all the fault s of the game boil down to one thing in my mind; no matter how well you say it is “working as intended”, the player retention is not there. Which means if this its how you want the game to be, people dont like it. And you failed. And I would love to hear some ownership of that. Check the numbers on ask platforms; next top nobody is playing. That is hard reality.

The only thing I want to bring up, and I dont expect a response, is the choice to forgo a lobby and party system for consoles. Easily the most important factor of a good console multiplayer game yet it is nowhere to be found, save for one undocumented “fireteam” feature that barely helps. You say yourself you are a console guy, why would this necessary feature slip by? on release day even you were being lambasted for it s mysterious omission.

The worst party was when questioned, SD came on here and simply said that we were doing it all wrong and the system was there…yet we had again, no documentation of anything, and what we were directed to was harfly a replacement.

More than the teleplay faults, the poor balance, lack of real playtesting, terrible marketing, and bugs bugs bugs…i would blame the lack of lobbies and persistent parties as the real downfall of console brink. Because even the most repetitive dull games catch on when its super way to play with friends…like COD.

[peteXnasty]

Also I age with a minor point with the poster above me: for all the customization and for how good the idea of the brink universe is, the game lacks all personality and the feel of being alive. I mean hell, the clothes having on a clothesline in CC are static textures…they get bullet hole decals when shout and are stuff as a board.

I know, time and budget yaddayadda but its disappointing. Thee game feels much much older than it really is.

[Spendlove]

This thread made me cringe, then Rahdo turns up and brings some honesty and maturity to it, then gets trolled, then the thread makes me cringe again.

I think it is time for the banhammer to be wielded then those who like the game can get on with it and the real childlike haters can go make there own forum and cry forlonly and all alone there. Really, if it can’t be discussed sensibly, then the children should leave the room when the adults speak.

Shouting at a monitor is just so sad. Pitiful really.

Let it go gentlemen, let it go. You are just plain EMBARRASSING yourselves here. Really. Have some decorum.

[coolstory]

txt

I don’t know whats more pathetic your post or that you’re in club called Brink hardcore club…

Also other than that fanboy wolf no one is trolling here, everyone posted valid concerns.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=neg;357603]agreed, did you even read the thread wolfnemesis? or just skim to the very end?
because it looks like you didnt read anything[/QUOTE]

Read below for a dude that’s manning up and making my point. Its below here:

[QUOTE=>< V ><;357607]Taking the time to face the music of the PC complaints is definitely something I can respect, so thanks Rahdo.

Unfortunately, I still don’t like Brink and never will. It’s ET with training wheels welded on.

W:ET was so much more than just an objective based team game. It also had great gun mechanics. Dancing with your opponent because of lower damage weapons was fun. Out sniping another sniper because it came down to who could best recoil and put their aim back on target was fun. Strafe jumping is vaslty more fun then simply getting the timing right on when to hit SMART again to get another automated movement. Being able to plant dynamites where you want is vastly more fun then knowing exactly where each dynamite is going to be planted everytime.

Throwing medpacks is so much more fun than throwing a buff, whether it be, I can control where the medpack goes, I can place them down in a strategic way, I can throw them at a teammate engaged in battle, but be careful that the enemy doesn’t get to it and heal. It’s also better for teamplay as players have to look for the medic to heal, instead of this health regeneration. Some of the most rewarding moments in W:ET was being an engineer with 10 hp and finally sneaking your way into the objective and winning. That tension with Brink is practically gone with health regeneration.

Watching a helmet tink off your opponent was always satisfying. Having character models bounce around from explosions in W:ET led to many a good laugh. Having vsays was another way to interact with players, whether if be goofying around or giving good information. Being able to plant a dynamite in a non-objective area, being able to throw a landmine at my teammates face, risking my life to cover an airstrike marker to stop the airstrike. Do you know that stupid little chair in W:ET? Do you know how many hours and hours of fun many, many people had just pushing that chair around and shooting it?

I can appreciate that SD wanted to reach a larger audience, but why take away so many, many choices, freedoms, different ways we could play W:ET with this Big Government way of doing Brink, that you do it this way or you don’t do it at all? I don’t care that Brink isn’t Axis and Allies or Strogg and GDF. I don’t care that Brink is not in WWII or aliens versus humans. What I care about is that so many, many things that made W:ET the best FPS team objective game ever, the core mechanics and the finer details, are gone and replaced with one button does all, you have to put your mine here, you have to plant here, you have to go through this major chokepoint, you have to play this part of the map and no more planting landmines elsewhere in anticipation you will break the first objective.

I truly respect and appreciate the time you took to post, but looking at W:ET as just a team objective game is why Brink is so shallow. I am truly amazed that SD couldn’t even realise the importance of recognizing a character class in battle so one can prioritize. Brink may be a step forward monetarily, but it is a step backward for gaming.

I still play W:ET and ET:QW, but I also play some fairly newer games like Left 4 Dead and Killing Floor, which have many elements that remind me of what made W:ET fun. And I don’t understand why you had to remove these funs elements to have Brink appeal to a wider audience.[/QUOTE]

This is what I am talking about. He clearly states: he doesn’t like Brink. That’s what many, many other people need to figure out, rather than trying to morph Brink in to <insert game that you are comfortable with here>.

I suggest SD makes a sub forum that is something like this: "What are you looking for in ET3. Discuss) and put it somewhere else, and just make it clear that there is no guarantee that it will be made. Just as a, For Future Consideration. Boom. This entire forum would vastly improve. There are people who like Brink but they get obliterated by folks that don’t even like Brink. There are things I don’t like about Brink, but none of it has to do with ET anything, I can tell you that. And most people who play Brink did not in all likely hood even play any of the ET games. (Shocker!) Its fine to say that you were hoping to like Brink, or really excited about it, or really wanted to, but if you don’t, no tweak is gonna swing the pendulum all the way to the other side. Or its just not likely to. So, rather than tearing down folks who do like the game, why not find a game you do like? The ship has sailed.

[Chris2]

Wolf, stop tarring everyone with the same brush, Brink has some serious faults and lacking features that have nothing to do with been likened to any other game. Simply telling people to shut up and go play something else doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

You’ve still missed the whole point of the past few pages.

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=.Chris.;357616]Wolf, stop tarring everyone with the same brush, Brink has some serious faults and lacking features that have nothing to do with been likened to any other game. Simply telling people to shut up and go play something else doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

You’ve still missed the whole point of the past few pages.[/QUOTE]

No, you are. I read every single page in this thread, and I can’t believe that’s your response. Sorry, but you are not gonna discount my point and posts. I never told anyone to shut up or go play something else, I suggested that they look for something they do like. Thanks for trying though. The brush hit you I guess, but for good reason.