Rad world cup

[Ciakgb]

yeah it does get old. the multiple toon people never quit:) Imagine a world with a tournament site where you could go and play in all kinds of different kinds of tourneys, even start your own, all automated and 24/7 ahhhh to dream…

[SuperNge]

@strychzilla : in some case, you said something right and something wrong. Sorry if i play with boring strategy that make you mind.
With me you are right:( i have no skill. I just think and think how to win only. And i enjoy with this. Sure it not funny, so serious. I want to find someone can defeat me, stronger than me with no limit squad, weapon or point. Thats my point. Sometime i feel bored, lonely that what you feel.
Im a normal player. Im not the best. I feel im a ugly player.
I will told you this. The first time i see Ciakgb play with his 5 megan. Its new wind come, strange and fantastic. I just wonder how he can play with 5 megan, how he can win, and how he doing…i come to him and said that. I love that.
I also dont like the new update, that bring Fryer. So sniper is on top of choice, everyone use this. Losing sometime, change my squad sometime. And i also use this. Bad.
To be honest, i dont like 14p and 20p. I have a little fear. But why not, i just wonder to my self. Next time, i will come to play if Ciakgb make the 20p Cup (i like to play with all melee weapon). Something new.
Thats all.
So dont be mind, Strychzilla. You should go to next round and play with some new opponent. Sure you will feel better.

[yogiberra10]

being inexperienced as I am in this game, each toon has its merits but you never know what you will face from the opposition. I had tried the quick teams, the mixed and the slow ones. Slow is harder to kill when you have a medic. Quick you can get lots of light hits on the oppo but kills take time. I practically never use the mid guys as they are slow and ineffective. Ivan is good at times but gets targeted pretty quick if you cannot move him with Gus. All depends on the oppo as to what his strategy is, i.e. take and hold or attack. If he is equipped for take and hold, it is tough to break in and stay alive (like I learned from Ciakgb hahahaha)

[Paul]

[QUOTE=Jerry-Rigs;477162]My stats are current and correct except for manteen12. How do I take a screen shot of a friend request that has not been responded to? Resolve that and I’m done in pool play.

It appears that Sumeer claimed a win against him (based on the math: Sumeer has 6 matches played with a 7 team pool)? Did the match take place or was a forfeit counted?[/QUOTE]

If something is incorrect, please tell me what it should be Direct links to matches would be even better.

About the friend thing, just post a win for you.

[Ciakgb]

wow, a ciakgb love fest! amazing:)

supernge, there is no such thing as ugly, only good. you are very good.

i do have fun with this game too, trying new things. to be it is an open slate.

the beauty behind the megan strat was it wasnt tactical at all. it was always about take n hold. at first the update robbed me of this, but i’ve learned to adapt.

my new best friend is what I used to call “the big dumb ugly block” that drops from the sky. with that and a little luck you can still pull off a take n hold if you go first.

yogi, you were very tough. there was a fabulous killing zone in that game, your poor guys had to run through this maze of men, mines and mystery:)

[yogiberra10]

hahahah Ciakgb, you are a poet as well as a strategist!!

quote
there was a fabulous killing zone in that game, your poor guys had to run through this maze of men, mines and mystery

…and misery LOL

[Ciakgb]

well I was hoping to be the first one done and with a perfect score to boot.

Alas, my buddy Sandman just edged me out at first finishing, and yogi got me with an inspired ghost move at Park.

Still, so happy to be through the first round, now I can relax a little and play Pirate’s Glory:)

[Sandman77]

strychzilla I agree whole hearted with you.

Jerry-Rigs: So you say if I have a knife and come charging at you in the open field while you have a gun in the hand I have a EQUAL chance of killing you??? Thats bullcrap…

Look at soccer worldcup, I dont see a team playing with two goalkeepers, do you?

I will agree and say a skilled player can make the best of what tools at his/hers disposal still you cant make a monkey fly unless the monkey looses 99% of its weight and grow wings…

Just a little sidenote here: I receive a 100% disability pension for a reason, so when I talk about fairness, I have a very clear line of what that means to me. Second I cant afford to just waste cash on buying myself a virtual advantage, my cash goes to feed 3 human beings and one furred animal. =:P

I used to play Ultima Online in its glory days, I sold virtual crap for real cash, trust me when I tell you virtual crap is worth **** in real life…

[Ciakgb]

26 less balanced than 20? Not exactly sure what you mean by balance. Balance as to who goes first or as far as certain weapon/squad layouts being so good?

20 has some nice strategic decisions to make about orbital, but 26 has those too. For example I had to dump orbital to start carrying the cement block around (can’t do without arty), but only when I go first, otherwise I do take the orbital in 26, that’s a complexity.

As too toon numbers, they both have that decision as well–4 or 5 in 20 pt, 5 or 6 in 26 pt. You could argue I guess that 4-5 is more drastic decision in 20pt game, cause in a 26 you can still take 2 5pt toons along with the hoard (fryers usually these days).

Its funny cause this is the same arguements I saw back in the Juan/Kate days. Now you don’t see that as much. I would disagree that Kate is OP…I take one now and again, but never two. They die just too quickly for the toxic to be worth THAT much…

[Ciakgb]

Oh, and everyone knows fryer is op–should be 6 point weapon. Its telling that ANY sniper with fryer is instantly awesome.

[Jerry-Rigs]

[QUOTE=Sandman77;477817]strychzilla I agree whole hearted with you.

Jerry-Rigs: So you say if I have a knife and come charging at you in the open field while you have a gun in the hand I have a EQUAL chance of killing you??? Thats bullcrap…

Look at soccer worldcup, I dont see a team playing with two goalkeepers, do you?

I will agree and say a skilled player can make the best of what tools at his/hers disposal still you cant make a monkey fly unless the monkey looses 99% of its weight and grow wings…

Just a little sidenote here: I receive a 100% disability pension for a reason, so when I talk about fairness, I have a very clear line of what that means to me. Second I cant afford to just waste cash on buying myself a virtual advantage, my cash goes to feed 3 human beings and one furred animal. =:P

I used to play Ultima Online in its glory days, I sold virtual crap for real cash, trust me when I tell you virtual crap is worth **** in real life…[/QUOTE]

Where to start…
I think I am not understanding everything you are trying to tell me and I think I didn’t make my point to StrykZ clear either.

I agree that gun vs knife (or Fryer vs Katana) is not equal. But that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I was tying to challenge StrikeZ to define his ethics or morals and then challenge those.

I don’t know anything about soccer but I don’t think the rules allow it whether its worldcup or not. But that’s a different game so I guess it can have whatever rules it wants. Is that your argument against clones?

When I referred to resources, I was talking about abilities, knowledge, tactics, etc and not money. But having broached the topic, I have paid for RAD bucks and bought way more than I have earned. Are you giving me grief about that?

I don’t know what is over-powered and what is not. I think that 3 Gus’ and 2 Juan’s is overpowered in Tinker’s hands but not in mine and probably not in yours. I don’t have the skill to enable the potential.

Fairness. Given your statement I understand that you have deeply rooted feeling on the issue. I do not mean to be offensive and I fear that I will be. Nothing is fair. Fair is a concept made up by … I want to use some disparaging label but that wouldn’t be … nice. I am very thankful for what I have, know I don’t deserve it, and have a personal responsibility to help others. I do not expect anyone else to believe or act the same but none of that has anything to do with fair.

Unless otherwise stated up front, I will give my opponent my best game every game and not patronize them by holding back. I only wish I my best was better, but I’m working on it.

I can’t resist. Open field knife vs gun in real life depends on who holds the knife, who holds the gun, what the starting range is, etc.

[Jerry-Rigs]

[QUOTE=Paul;477801]If something is incorrect, please tell me what it should be Direct links to matches would be even better.

About the friend thing, just post a win for you.[/QUOTE]
The wrong values I saw don’t matter. The points are right.
I will follow your advice on the friend thing.
thanks.

[Ciakgb]

I think all of you are saying the same thing, you just have different shades of it…peace:)

[Hundopercent]

[QUOTE=tinker;477656]sry actually it is not totally by luck- still searching for an appropiate pattern though

and sorry but 26 pt is as much balanced as 20 and 14 pt.
It’s just hard to get in.
again, there are some toons that fit better, some that do not.[/QUOTE]

Then it’s a bug. Either you can do it or you can not. There shouldn’t be a special pattern to make it work. Again, this has put me at a disadvantage in 2 games so far. I won one of them by taking a big gamble and it paid off but if it didn’t I would have lost that one as well because he was able to double push while I was not. I had to take double the damage and use twice as many squirts in addition to not so ideal positioning. It’s not simple to adapt to especially when your opponent is competent.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]sorry dude. but what your saying is insane.
“weapons no longer matter” yes they do. any kind of sniper needs a good weapon.[/quote]

Not exactly, all they need is a Fryer which is only 5 pt. It should be 6. This alone would make a big difference in both 20p and 26p (balance wise.)

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]“It’s more about how many damaging abilities you can stack.” wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG
again. sniper don’t use their abilities often. dave does. 5x dave might have it’s advantages but watch my games against that team (on my “my uploaded Games” list ) . I killed the first in round 2. the second in round 3 … in the one game 3 in round 5 or so …[/quote]

Not wrong at all. For my own curiosity would Mitsid, You, SuperNge, and any other top player I missed list their commander abilities for the group stage? More often than not, I will say it’s Orbital, Arty Strike, and Stealth Detection. The only reason I don’t run it is because I enjoy playing different and not following suit. I placed Top 16 at some WoW TCG Tournaments using home brew jank decks that weren’t meta decks knowing I could probably top 4 with a meta deck. I just enjoy it more and I like showing other players that you don’t need to follow suit.

I’ve never played vs you Tinker, but from some of your videos you play similar to me and prefer Gus + Juan. Though your abilities may not do damage I’m sure you are running 6 soldier build vs 5 because you want more abilities. Again, the weapons do not matter (aside from sniper.)

“with a team of skinny’s which is pretty close to an auto loss” why don’t you also pick a team full of skinny’s ? or just ANYTHING. you don’t lose to a player just because he goes first with skinnys. 200hp is easy to get down.

Skinny’s aren’t my preferred play style though I have tinkered a bit with Dave, Kate, and LaHaq combos. I’ve even done 3X LaHaq builds for giggles. I would like to use some medium soldiers like Dee, Archer, and Spud but they are just not even remotely as effective as a skinny or fatty (Dee is the only exception but even then his shield isn’t as good as it should be.) You’re right, though. You don’t just lose because he goes first and is running skinny’s. I lost because I didn’t try (ran 3 lahaq + 2 dave all melee.) I do not enjoy being forced to sit 12 - 15 paces away because of Dave’s Grenade. Maybe it wouldn’t be such a big deal if it would only push from 1 square away and not 2. The fact that you can hit diagonally with it and pop someone out makes it damn near a must have for first blood.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]20p you have to choose between sniper or no sniper. Orbital Strike or no orbital strike. It balances itself. 26p it’s 2 sniper, stack abilities, and run Orbital Strike + Arty (more damaging abilities.)
sure, you have less opportunities on 20pt. but even less on 14pt. lets all play 14 pt ! !!
orbital strike does damage, sure. But the range you need is ridiculous. I didn’t use it at all.[/quote]

It’s not a matter of less opportunities. It’s a matter of making choices. If you run a 5 soldier squad you can’t have a sniper. If you run a Orbital Strike for a close range map you can’t have Arty. It’s called trade offs. 14 pt sounds like it would very slow and probably dominated by Juan/Gus but I wouldn’t know because I haven’t played 14 pt in a very long time. 20 pt, I believe opens up the opportunity for mediums to actually get played. It’s far more tactical. 26p, from the top players, will ALWAYS be 6 soldiers, 2 snipers, the rest ability stack. Period.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]"I’m too critical and have very strict morals about what is skill and not skill. "
“. The game isn’t even about capping the sites it’s about TDM because initiating the cap first will more often than not net you a loss.”
sry dude but nonsense. a skilled player will win >70% of the time, no matter wether he starts or not.[/quote]

I assume you are one of those pro Favella guys who says going first doesn’t matter, because 1 out of 9 times you can win or you have won on it once or twice going second against vs an inferior player so there isn’t a problem. I’m not saying you’re a bad player here Tinker or that SuperNge is a bad player. You’re both very good like many of the people in the cup. But dropping your commander behind a wall that you can’t pop him out of and leaving him there for 5 turns locking players in their spawn is not skill.

Do you know what would have made this cup far more interesting @ 26p? You can only have 1 sniper. Granted most would pick Juan, but now you can’t pinch players with 2X sniper and a Dave. Dee becomes more viable. Ivan might even have some more play time.

We will agree to disagree here. Evenly skilled players, going first on Favella and Market will net you more wins. Old Town and Beach attempting to cap the site will net you more losses.

what you do here is talking bad about every advantage one can take, and insult people who in fact use these things.

I’m not trying to insult here. I’m voicing my opinion on the flaws of the game. I think RAD Soldiers is a great game. It just has very noticeable balancing issues. It’s obvious with the complete absence of medium soldiers.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]"I’m too critical and have very strict morals about what is skill and not skill. "
tell me. how does skill manifest in a game like chess. is it ANYTHING more than being able to see, calculate, use advantages and win a game?[/quote]

Chess is perfectly balanced because both sides are exactly the same but this is from the first paragraph on the wiki page.

“The first-move advantage in chess is the inherent advantage of the player (White) who makes the first move in chess. Chess players and theorists generally agree that White begins the game with some advantage. Since 1851, compiled statistics support this view; White consistently wins slightly more often than Black, usually scoring between 52 and 56 percent. White’s winning percentage[1] is about the same for tournament games between humans and games between computers. However, White’s advantage is less significant in rapid games or novice games.”

All that you mentioned is required and tallied into skill but in the end, going first has an advantage. Not so much in RAD Soldiers because it isn’t as linear as Chess BUT, going first on certain maps does have an advantage.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]“In addition to all of that, the soldiers are poorly balanced. You will see the same setup in almost every game. Either Dave, Kate, Snipers or Gus/Snipers (maybe even a Dave here like me) and by snipers I just mean Juan/Hack.”
People don’t try new setups and don’t find new setups. It’s sad but gives you the opportunity to surprise by any new setup.
by the way what is a more SKILLBASED match than a Mirror-Match (same squad on both sides) [/quote]

If it’s a mirror match than the only advantage would be the map and who went first. If it’s a map where going first doesn’t matter than it’s pretty well balanced. The issue you will run into here is that neither side will attempt to cap because it will more often than not, lead to a loss. So what you have is a very slow TDM. My playstyle is more of the capping kind. I’ve run some cap builds vs Mitsid and generally, upon entering the site, I would get Dave’d, Arty’d, and sniped. Not saying I played perfect but, that’s just in general what would happen because when someone is trying to cap, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel. Me vs Mitsid isn’t a blow out either me and him trade off wins/losses quite often.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]"So you will either see all skinny or all fatty but never a medium or an adequate mix. "
MAYBE because you pick soldiers that fit your squad.
you are either fast or slow, weapon damage or ability damage, defensive or offensive.
“an adequate mix” is most of the time killing your strategy— a Dave in a medium/heavy slow defensive weapon damage team is just not neccessary and will most of the time have 5-8 unused energy per turn till he dies.[/quote]

I can see your point here however, no matter how you slice and dice it. You will not see Archer, Spud, Suds, Angela, Tim or Tito past the group stage. You may, MAY see Dee or Sneaky Pete because someone wants to prove me wrong but Juan/LaHaq are superior picks by a long shot.

[QUOTE=tinker;477773]“skinny’s (primarily Dave and Kate) are pretty much OP with their abilities.”
ofc skinny’s have strong abilities. Dave’s grenade does the highest amount of damage/energy. but you will ALWAYS* need more than 1 dave grenade to kill something.
A Juan, carlito, ivan, dee, … even suds Can kill an enemy SOLO without the need of any kind of support.
*Unless the enemy(standing in front of a wall) doesn’t move while you stand with something like Hamjack exactly in front of him… )[/quote]

Not at all. All you need is a Dave grenade to kill something. He will pop them out, Commander will Arty, the snipers will finish him off. Mediums do the same weapon damage, except skinny’s have considerably stronger abilities and far superior mobility. 50 HP is not worth the ability and mobility loss. Juan and Carlito aren’t killing **** without Gus and you damn well know that.

There is NO single game that needs 0 skill to be mastered. Rad Soldiers seems to be the first one I ever play that comes close to 0 and I played A LOT of different games. you can undo every turn before sending, you can pretty much calculate every step of the enemy…

To reiterate, I’m not insulting anyone here. SuperNge, You, Mitsid all skilled and great players. I’m simply stating that 26p is the least balanced and requires the least amount of skill to compete. 20p requires the most skill and probably has the most soldier variation.

this is not ment to be offensive I just don’t like if people start nagging about every little bit in a game.

Sorry if it comes off this way but this game has serious balancing issues. Ignoring it isn’t going to fix it. I would like everyone, after the cup to post their builds for each map, record who went first, and who won. I would like to see the stats.

[QUOTE=SuperNge;477799]@strychzilla : in some case, you said something right and something wrong. Sorry if i play with boring strategy that make you mind.
With me you are right:( i have no skill. I just think and think how to win only. And i enjoy with this. Sure it not funny, so serious. I want to find someone can defeat me, stronger than me with no limit squad, weapon or point. Thats my point. Sometime i feel bored, lonely that what you feel.
Im a normal player. Im not the best. I feel im a ugly player.
I will told you this. The first time i see Ciakgb play with his 5 megan. Its new wind come, strange and fantastic. I just wonder how he can play with 5 megan, how he can win, and how he doing…i come to him and said that. I love that.
I also dont like the new update, that bring Fryer. So sniper is on top of choice, everyone use this. Losing sometime, change my squad sometime. And i also use this. Bad.
To be honest, i dont like 14p and 20p. I have a little fear. But why not, i just wonder to my self. Next time, i will come to play if Ciakgb make the 20p Cup (i like to play with all melee weapon). Something new.
Thats all.
So dont be mind, Strychzilla. You should go to next round and play with some new opponent. Sure you will feel better.:D[/QUOTE]

SuperNge, I’m not mad. I enjoyed playing with you and I even trolled you a little bit locking your sniper in the corner with a cement block etc. <3 I just knew what you were going to do on Market so I didn’t bother trying. I won’t be as silly in the bracket stage though. You are a skilled player, do not take my posts that negative. I just feel things would be far more interesting playing 20p or 26p with a single sniper limit. Keep doing your thing, it’s working. There is nothing wrong with playing to win, especially in organized competition.

Just so you know, I’m a very competitive player. Played at many tournaments across many games from TCGs, FPS’s, even League of legends. I know exactly what it’s like to compete especially if you want to win. So I respect that. Do not take it as I am trying to discredit you. Sorry if I came off that way. Again, it was a lot of fun playing vs you and I knew my mistakes soon as I made them but I felt I had other solid options.

[QUOTE=Ciakgb;477825]26 less balanced than 20? Not exactly sure what you mean by balance. Balance as to who goes first or as far as certain weapon/squad layouts being so good?

20 has some nice strategic decisions to make about orbital, but 26 has those too. For example I had to dump orbital to start carrying the cement block around (can’t do without arty), but only when I go first, otherwise I do take the orbital in 26, that’s a complexity.

As too toon numbers, they both have that decision as well–4 or 5 in 20 pt, 5 or 6 in 26 pt. You could argue I guess that 4-5 is more drastic decision in 20pt game, cause in a 26 you can still take 2 5pt toons along with the hoard (fryers usually these days).

Its funny cause this is the same arguements I saw back in the Juan/Kate days. Now you don’t see that as much. I would disagree that Kate is OP…I take one now and again, but never two. They die just too quickly for the toxic to be worth THAT much…[/QUOTE]

20p is more balanced in the fact that your build decisions have a significant impact on the field. If you run a sniper, you can only have 4 soldiers. If you run Orbital Strike you can’t pop people out. With 26p all of that is gone. You get 2 snipers and both good abilities. Cement block is good, but on most maps, Orbital strike will keep the opponent from being able to pinch the enemy team with a non sniper class.

[Ciakgb]

Yeah, I like 20–but 26 is fine too. Really just a preference thing, no? in chess we have title for different time controls, there are bullet champs (one minute for whole game), blitz champs (5 minutes a game), and then the long form champ (5.5 hours for the game).

Another way to look at is basektabll–there is the traditional 5-5 game, but also 3-3 and 1-1 street basketball. The two games are VERY different, and yet the same…

[Mitsid]

Strychzilla, you are no doubt one of the Top players in this game. You know we have played a lot, I respect you and I dont think that I am better then you in anyway. But I totally disagree with you in this matter. Remember you have told me that it is not interesting for you to play 26pt. because in 26pt. Games all you have to do is to hide and wait for the mistake of your opponent? And I answered you - wait till you play Supernge, he always makes aggressive moves first and wins! So now after you have played with the best player in the world, why dont you recognize that everything is possible, all the doors are open, and you just have to be more creative and learn? Do not blame 26pt, just practice!!! I have been trying to find a key to SuperNge for last six month and I still dont lose hope that some day I will be able to play on his level. We have also played much 20pt. with Supernge and the result was the same. So it is not the number of points it is skill that really matters. Please get me right I did not mean to offend you in anyway.

[Ciakgb]

Great post, Mistid.

[tinker]

@ Strychzilla

dude, listen
I actually have no fun commenting your whole post again
you know NOTHING about my playing style
especially not in 26pt games

you think you do? wrong. I play 26pt since the beginning of Ciakgbs tournament.
all I picked was my favourite characters at the moment. no strategy I run there.
I did not even pick Orbital strike ONCE. If I varied from my usual pick I took Bees beside artillery.

Electri-Fryer is nice indeed, you just don’t HAVE to use it. all game on ciakgb-tournament went with 1 electri-fryer and 1 otto semi-auto

Not at all. All you need is a Dave grenade to kill something. He will pop them out, Commander will Arty, the snipers will finish him off. Mediums do the same weapon damage, except skinny’s have considerably stronger abilities and far superior mobility. 50 HP is not worth the ability and mobility loss.

are you even understanding what I posted?
dave SOLO won’t kill something. (my post)
you --> ofc, dave grenade AND COMMANDER ARTY …

Juan and Carlito aren’t killing **** without Gus and you damn well know that.

on the one hand you say Dave grenade AND rest will kill something
now you say carlito and/or juan need something else …

Dave maximum damage at one target : grenade enemy is 2! cells away. grenade behind him to push him towards you. ~60 pt of damage
he now is 1! cell away. you gotta walk 1 - you got 8 energy left. good luck getting down 140 pt with 8 energy

Juan maximum damage at one target >4 cells away : Botherer SR : 3*82(longest range) = 246
Carlito grosso: Hamjak auto sg : 3 hits on a target <4 cells away does 200-360 dmg

But about your comment here :

just don’t wanna talk about your post anymore … getting boring

[Ciakgb]

Guys, lets stop…were having a damn fine tourney so far. Strych, you could easily start looking like “sour grapes” and we are all in the same “pretty damn good” club. On any given Sunday as they say in the NFL, any team can win.

[SuperNge]

@strychzilla : sorry because misunderstanding your think. Now i know, i remember what i do in the 2nd game. I dont want this. I think its funny but its bad. Im really sorry about this
@mitsid : you talk too far and too big. I dont agree.
Every catalogue have a strongest player. And i feel difference and hard with each catalogue. I respect them.
14p - catnadian, sanpuppy, tinker…
20p - el-co, ciakgb, kino…and you.
Im is a nothing.
26p - im trying
Last thing, Why dont we stop talking too far from this Cup:eek: Peace
Best regards.