Rad world cup

Mitsid · 2013-11-10 16:26:02 UTC

We have already discussed this matter before. It was very clear stated by Paul that home player should go first on the first map (Bridge in this case) away goes first Train station, then home again suburbs

Ciakgb · 2013-11-11 03:06:12 UTC

DO OR DIE!!! SEMPER FI!!!

(down to my last loss…)

Paul · 2013-11-11 16:17:28 UTC

[QUOTE=tinker;481469]

awesome. he now wants me to restart a game because he picked the wrong character.
so. he sees my squad on all maps and now seems to want a total restart.

Paul. help pls[/QUOTE]

You only need to restart if you both agree or if one of you did something against the rules. Too bad for him but you have all right to continue the matches However you may decide to start over.

tinker · 2013-11-11 17:07:56 UTC

[QUOTE=Ciakgb;481540]DO OR DIE!!! SEMPER FI!!!
[/QUOTE]

also watched too much The Mentalist ?

well, it’s not like 1 break, it’s like a whole new match with a now quite open bluff of me.

I don’t wanna be a like … smartass (or simply ass) and say “your mistake” but … it IS his, and not only 1.
what would you do ? any idea per pm please … q.q

tinker · 2013-11-11 19:10:55 UTC

Paul could you please say how to go on. there is no real “choosing” for me here.

he said (and I can screen that if he does not delete the game)
“you can only choose one, I take bridge”
now, he has “2 days” not answered on suburbs
and did not move his first move on bridge and wants me to restart it, because he “picked the wrong juan”

so again:
train station (sure, mixed up) - MY actual map - he started, game is legit beside the change in starting position --> made me think he wants to swap home<->away

Bridge - HIS actual map - I started, he did NOT move on first turn, wants ME to restart … and said, he wants to start here (?!)

Suburbs - HIS actual map - I started, he did not answer for 2 days …

help qq

Armedmanus · 2013-11-11 19:53:27 UTC

Shouldn’t it be trainstation and not city center?

Paul · 2013-11-11 20:13:12 UTC

[QUOTE=tinker;481606]Paul could you please say how to go on. there is no real “choosing” for me here.

he said (and I can screen that if he does not delete the game)
“you can only choose one, I take bridge”
now, he has “2 days” not answered on suburbs
and did not move his first move on bridge and wants me to restart it, because he “picked the wrong juan”

so again:
City center - MY actual map - he started, game is legit beside the change in starting position --> made me think he wants to swap home<->away

Bridge - HIS actual map - I started, he did NOT move on first turn, wants ME to restart … and said, he wants to start here (?!)

Suburbs - HIS actual map - I started, he did not answer for 2 days …

help qq[/QUOTE]

Upload a screenshot of the two days thing already to the match page. Then also try to win City Center. If you want you can then replay Bridge, if you lose, you can always still fall back that you “won” the other two matches.

Think that’s the best solution.

Mitsid · 2013-11-15 15:21:09 UTC

We have finished our games with Jacky. How are other games going?

Hundopercent · 2013-11-15 21:39:49 UTC

Me and Armed are going to stalemate out unless he decides to be a bit more grown up.
At the start of the match I asked if he could double push with his Gus’s because I could not. I stated if he could double push we would have to remake. He replied with, “I find it humorous you would ask that coming from you.” I took another turn and told him it would be my last turn until he confirmed he could double push or not. If he could then we need to remake. I also told him he could contact me via PM. Instead he replied with, “If you refuse to take your turn you forfeit.”

So I figured I would come here and ask Paul what to do since being able to double push is a huge advantage and currently a bug/inconsistency in the game.

Armedmanus · 2013-11-16 00:54:02 UTC

Stryzchilla… I give you one chance to let this go and just keep on playing.
If you decide to keep on pushing this case… You will just look like a fool. I promise you…

Ciakgb · 2013-11-16 01:42:00 UTC

Here we go again:)

I’ve never been happier to be eliminated from a tourney in my life…

tinker · 2013-11-16 01:50:17 UTC

it’s not a bug
It’s a feature --> and this time it is true.

there is a pattern for the pushes -> wether it is the dave-grenade, double push via artillery or doublepush via spuhurter.
if you don’t get the pattern, don’t call it a bug.

and if you want to remake because he can doublepush and you are unable to do that it’s like saying " if I win -> win , if you win -> remake"

Armedmanus · 2013-11-16 03:49:20 UTC

Ok, I’ll be nice and explain it to you Strychzilla…

I know it probably seems unfair to you especially since you don’t understand how the double push works.

I did some testing a while back and figured out exactly how it works.
So here goes:

Basically the 2 person push works only in two directions of the map (either north west, south west, north east or south east). But the thing is, if for Player A, those directions are towards the centre of the map, then it will be the opposite for player B. That means there will always be one player that has a disadvantage.

If you look at our past 2 games:

Bridge (my home game), you were able to double push towards the centre and guess what, I wasn’t because the double push direction for me was the opposite of the centre so it didn’t help me.
Train Station (your home game and a map where 1st player does matter… ) you again had the advantage and you double pushed 4 times… 3 times in the second turn to get my Juan and it was an easy win for you after that. So you basically won because of the double push. And guess what, I wasn’t able to double push towards the centre again on this map. And did I complain? no, I just waited for the next map because I knew I would have the advantage for once… since I tested it. (if you want to cancel this win because I couldn’t double push, then sure we can start this map again haha)
Suburbs (My home game), you start your first turn saying that if I can double push, we need to restart…

All that being said. It won’t matter how many times we restart Suburbs because as long as you are second, you will never have the 2 push advantage (like you did in Bridge AND Train Station…)

And finally… You shouldn’t need a “feature” like double push to win… Please just play your turns and stop complaining…thanks!

Hundopercent · 2013-11-16 05:15:55 UTC

[QUOTE=Armedmanus;482086]Stryzchilla… I give you one chance to let this go and just keep on playing.
If you decide to keep on pushing this case… You will just look like a fool. I promise you…[/QUOTE]

That’s fine make me look like a fool because I am ignorant I could really care less. You’ve been a complete infant about this entire situation when you obviously know I don’t understand the squirt mechanics.

[QUOTE=Ciakgb;482095]Here we go again:)

I’ve never been happier to be eliminated from a tourney in my life…[/QUOTE]

I apologize if I ruined it for you. To be honest I was dragged into this stupid ****en game after I quit to “make this cup happen” and I’ve regretted it since.

[QUOTE=tinker;482097]it’s not a bug
It’s a feature --> and this time it is true.

there is a pattern for the pushes -> wether it is the dave-grenade, double push via artillery or doublepush via spuhurter.
if you don’t get the pattern, don’t call it a bug.

and if you want to remake because he can doublepush and you are unable to do that it’s like saying " if I win -> win , if you win -> remake"[/QUOTE]

It’s not at all like that. If I could double push and he couldn’t I would have remade. I’m all about balanced, fair games. If you can double push only in 1 direction it’s a bug unless otherwise stated by SD. That would be a retarded mechanic and I am certain it is not intended for 1 player to have a huge advantage over the other.

[QUOTE=Armedmanus;482105]Ok, I’ll be nice and explain it to you Strychzilla…

I know it probably seems unfair to you especially since you don’t understand how the double push works.

I did some testing a while back and figured out exactly how it works.
So here goes:

Basically the 2 person push works only in two directions of the map (either north west, south west, north east or south east). But the thing is, if for Player A, those directions are towards the centre of the map, then it will be the opposite for player B. That means there will always be one player that has a disadvantage.

If you look at our past 2 games:

Bridge (my home game), you were able to double push towards the centre and guess what, I wasn’t because the double push direction for me was the opposite of the centre so it didn’t help me.
Train Station (your home game and a map where 1st player does matter… ) you again had the advantage and you double pushed 4 times… 3 times in the second turn to get my Juan and it was an easy win for you after that. So you basically won because of the double push. And guess what, I wasn’t able to double push towards the centre again on this map. And did I complain? no, I just waited for the next map because I knew I would have the advantage for once… since I tested it. (if you want to cancel this win because I couldn’t double push, then sure we can start this map again haha)
Suburbs (My home game), you start your first turn saying that if I can double push, we need to restart…

All that being said. It won’t matter how many times we restart Suburbs because as long as you are second, you will never have the 2 push advantage (like you did in Bridge AND Train Station…)

And finally… You shouldn’t need a “feature” like double push to win… Please just play your turns and stop complaining…thanks![/QUOTE]

Thank you for the explanation. You should have been more mature and just explained it in the first place since I was obviously unaware of how that works. This isn’t the first time I mentioned this either, I mentioned it during the group stage as well.

Whether you choose to believe it or not being able to double push is a huge advantage. It’s not a matter of whether I need it or not to win it’s a matter of if you can do it you have an advantage that I don’t have. Since I was obviously unaware of how it worked I apologize for attempting to balance what I felt was an unfair advantage. I did not know you couldn’t double push and it makes sense why you weren’t running 2 Gus’s.

Either way this never needed to escalate here and could have easily been explained in a PM. Thanks for being a dick.

Mitsid · 2013-11-16 06:41:32 UTC

@strychzilla, in my opinion it is obvious that if you dont make a turn within 2 days it is considered forfeit. There is nothing in the Cup rules about the double push issue, so you have no reason to appeal to Paul. Sorry if it was me who “dragged” you in this cup

Hundopercent · 2013-11-16 06:55:26 UTC

I didn’t know there was a pattern. I had thought it was random. I also didn’t know everyone was aware on how it worked but me. So combination of a few things that lead to this.

I advanced my turns.

Jerry-Rigs · 2013-11-16 22:06:54 UTC

Strychzilla:
I figured there was a pattern but I had no clue what it was. I don’t claim to know all the ins and outs so I’m not a good indicator of “common knowledge” but I am curious if anybody else knew the pattern. Any body want to admit to it?

I’m sorry Strych, but you do kinda sound like someone (not me of course) complaining that they didn’t know how much DoT Juan’s fire bomb does .

Armedmanus:
This is interesting. Thank you for sharing. Not that I don’t believe it, but I will need to do some testing. Sounds like an internal rounding error.

I think this falls into the category of experience gained through rigorous examination and testing. Anybody could have discovered the pattern if they had worked at it long & hard enough. Applause to you for doing it. Because you had superior knowledge, you had an edge. Be a shame not to use it.

Hundopercent · 2013-11-17 07:37:12 UTC

[QUOTE=Jerry-Rigs;482162]Strychzilla:
I figured there was a pattern but I had no clue what it was. I don’t claim to know all the ins and outs so I’m not a good indicator of “common knowledge” but I am curious if anybody else knew the pattern. Any body want to admit to it?

I’m sorry Strych, but you do kinda sound like someone (not me of course) complaining that they didn’t know how much DoT Juan’s fire bomb does .

Armedmanus:
This is interesting. Thank you for sharing. Not that I don’t believe it, but I will need to do some testing. Sounds like an internal rounding error.

I think this falls into the category of experience gained through rigorous examination and testing. Anybody could have discovered the pattern if they had worked at it long & hard enough. Applause to you for doing it. Because you had superior knowledge, you had an edge. Be a shame not to use it.[/QUOTE]

Not exactly Jerry. The fire dot always does the same range of damage. It’s not as though if you spawn on a certain side of the map, with a certain build, facing a certain direction that now the molotov does triple the damage. Does that make more sense on my perspective?

It would be like playing Q3 in a tournament where only 1 player can strafe jump if he spawns in a specific area. It would create a great imbalance and any tournament would ban strafe jumping until the bug was fixed. I’m not implying that double pushing should be banned because realistically the game isn’t big enough for anyone to give a ****. I’m just giving you an analogy. Even bunning jumping was banned in CS and anyone could do it, it just wasn’t an intended mechanic.

Since Arm was kind enough to share how the bug works it will help those that didn’t understand and adjust their builds accordingly. However, this brings to question the most balanced way to hold a cup. I would now lean towards both players playing the same map on both sides but that’s just me. (by the way that’s an opinion not a complaint but I’m sure you guys will twist it all up.)

Jerry - To save you the time, I tested it and he is correct.

Jerry-Rigs · 2013-11-18 22:14:36 UTC

Of course it’s not exactly! I was referencing the molotov for (failed) humor.

I do still think learning the “unintended effects” (AKA: bugs) of the game still qualifies as skill earned by experience but I will not argue it further (your last word if you want it).

Never played, don’t know.

I don’t think the double scoot is either. I think it is a rounding error bug. I have seen a weapon (fryer if I recall) that did more damage from this position than from that position even through the calculated range is the same. I blame it on a rounding error in Bresenham’s line algorithm (or the equivalent) used to calculate path and range to target.

I tend to agree, but I recognize sometimes you break the break and sometimes you get broken. It’s just a game.

I jumped all over Ciakgb when he went on and on (IMO) about the “right” way to run a tournament. He replied in a very admirable style (well done Ciakgb!). I don’t think your comment rises to that level.

Cool. I’m still curious how widespread the knowledge was.

Ciakgb · 2013-11-19 02:39:10 UTC

I love that I’m the ghost in the machine, being quoted already:)

Well guys, I absolutely know in my heart some day all this will be worked out and people will really have a good time in these tourneys. I hope my annoying littlel contributions make that day even more fun.

Adios! Goodbye! Good Ridance! Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out…