Punkbuster and cvar hacking...

(grudgebearer) #1

You know it almost makes me think that having punkbuster is pointless. Most servers allow for so many cvars to be changed allowing for exploits for idiot cheaters to gain an unreal advantage over everyone. In an ideal setting punkbuster would kick anyone who had cvars changed that can’t be modified from the setting menu or are not changed by the game itself…well that is my rant after getting two shots, and only two shots, with a thompson put perfectly through my skull on the rail gun map by a guy who should not have been able to see me through the fog…the reason i know this…cause the guy sitting next to me in my office was playing on the opposite team and had died and was following this joker…he had no fog of war and no snow…

(wudan) #2

Way to live up to your name, grudgebearer.

Maybe your friend at the office OWNED you because he’s better than you, eh? Maybe you should go back to playing with barbie-dolls. Modifying CVARs is not cheating, that’s why there are still cheat protections. And if you were playing on an office network anyway, how is PB gonna do anything if you aren’t running a PB enabled server?

Here’s a brilliant idea, why don’t we bring everybody down to your level so you can have a ‘fair’ chance, eh?

Better idea, use cg_atmosphericeffects 0, so next time your friend OWNS you, you can’t blame it on the weather.

(DG) #3

when youre spectating a player you see with your own config, not theirs. If your office colleague was seeing had no fog of war and no snow then it was he using those settings, or simply the player that killed you was in a position to see you clearly with no fiddling and it was simply that you failed to notice him.

Server admins can already restrict any cvar tweaking they see fit, and PB already detects actual cvar hacks. I suggest you do a little research before starting a tantrum flamewar thread.

cd_atmosphericaffects 0 makes little difference to visability on my machine, but a very noticable difference to fps and gameplay smoothness.

(grudgebearer) #4

First of all Wudan, I wasn’t “owned” the guy happened to catch me a few times while i was arming mines and could see me when he shouldn’t have been able to. In a fire fight i held my own

Second it was not an office network it was a public server we were both playing on it.

Third it is people like you that fark with every cvar and turn the game into stick figures running through a stick frame world shooting little dots in an attempt to raise your kill/death ratio that ruin this game.

(wudan) #5

No, cvar messing does not significantly alter gameplay more than video mode messing.

I’m glad to hear you held your own.

Although, I am interested in what cvar turns off the fog, that’d be … good to know. As far as I am aware, there isn’t one, but, hey, I’m not a GRADE A Cvar Farker.

(grudgebearer) #6

DG you are right you do look through your own config when you are following, but that is exactly how we new this guy had no fog of war. My coworker could not see me when he shot two precise shots and took me out from halfway across the map with the thompson. There is no way he could have done it without hacking cvars. I even looked over on his screen he couldn’t even make out the ladder going up to the railgun controls much less a person standing 10 ft behind it laying mines well enough to shoot two bullets and take them out with a headshot. All I am saying it that punkbuster is too lenient in what it lets by, performance increase or not, if it allows somone to see all the way across the map and snipe with a freaking thompson I don’t think it should be allowed.

(senator) #7

Its not PBs problem, its the server admin who forgot to protect the CVAR.
On the server I usually play on ‘cg_atmosphericaffects 0’ is not allowed.
Try to find a better protected server :wink:

(kotkis) #8

Removing the fog doens’t give you huge benefit. You still can’t see as far as you’d think you would, the view just “ends” and you see all grey. The fog only makes this a bit more nicer to look. You can try this out by making your own server and entering the following console-commands: /devmap railgun, /sv_cheats 1, /r_wolffog 0. I don’t know if you’re talking about “legal” tweaks like picmip, intensity and stuff like that or about some pb-protected cvars but tweaking really is part of Enemy Territory like it was in RtCW. Tweaks help people to gain better fps and help with visibility. I personally don’t care about textures, lightning and sugar like that, so I remove them.

(emPulse) #9

I think anyone bitching about changing the CVARs is in the wrong place. This is a forum populated be tweakers. Plus the /cg_atmosphericeffects 0 is a life save, i have the low-end DSL service, phone lines in neighbor hood can’t even provide standard speed, by dropping the rain and snow, game is playable. It helps a little on radar for seeing people but that about it, i don’t think its a cheat so much as an OPTION.

(Lt. Jones) #10

I would agree with grudgebearer . . . if we were talking about the original RTCW. With ET you can still change some values but not to the extent that you could in RTCW. In this you can adjust values to get a better fps without getting the RTCW pink screens that made the enemy players insanely easy to spot. Also, almost all of the ET server admins are doing an excellent job of locking down cvars anyways.

(Wraith2k3) #11

PB can do nothing if the cvars arent already locked. It’s down to the server admin to lock cvars that they dont want changed. What PB can do is detect hacks that modify or unlock cvars that have been locked.

(I R O N M A N) #12

Hey kid, wake up. I know your type - the ones who always gripe when someone announces a cheater in a game. The ones who say, “Cheating??? This server runs PB you idiot!” I have always suspected that those who are not accused of cheating but still gripe in the game when someone announces a cheater, are likely cheaters themselves. It just pisses them off that any 'ole player can see the cheating, and that it’s just that easy to spot.

Modifying cvars is not cheating? What a dork you are. Modifying PB in ANY way is cheating. What is the purpose in doing it if not to avert it’s security features? If the thrill of competition is not what motivates you to play, then just stop playing. Cheating gains someone nothing, and actually makes them a worse player, since their experience is based upon relying on the cheats instead of thier abilities. When someone sees a cheater, they can smile to themselves knowing that the cheater lacks any reasonable skill that all of the honest players posess.

:rocker:

(Awol) #13

For all you who complain about certain cvars suck and what not no one ever bothers to make a list of cvars and what they do and how “cheater” use them to play.

Frankly I don’t have time to become a Q3 admin god or an ET admin god and have to use the forums to ask questions about cvars and settings. Yet I haven’t seen a CVAR list that should be added to punkbusters config file, but I hear people complain until they are blue in the face about some cvars.

I use the cvar settings that came with ET punkbuster config file. If this isn’t good enough then give me a list. Who knows instead of bitching all the time about you might get many server admins some help and make many servers worth playing on.

And if you do give me a list tell me what teh cvar does and acceptable ranges of values. I will look them over and check them out and if gives people an unfair advantage they will be added to my PB config.

(DG) #14

Modifying cvars has nothing to do with modifying PB in any way, unless theyre PB cvars, all of which are there specifically to be modified, or more accurately, set. A cvar is simply a setting, nothing more. Cvars are there to be changed, otherwise they wouldnt be there, they would have no purpose. When you change anything in the ingame menu’s you change cvars. When you change team, class or weapon, you are changing cvars.

Cheating is not easy to spot at all. A talented player experienced already from RTCW will own a noob cheater with ease, but may be well challenged by a reasonably skilled player who is also cheating, for example. Add in there being rather a lot of noise from conenction lag, cpu lag, ignorance, arrogance, temper, and so on, and it becomes very hard to spot who is a cheater and who isnt, even for those who actually know what to look for.

The vast majority of the time someone screams cheater, theyre just upset because they cannot handle being beaten by a better player. Its not a very nice lesson, but there are always players who are just far, far better than you, whom can appear do things you do not feel capable of. Worse, people who have absolutely no idea about anything remotely on topic like to make comments as if theyre very clued up, supar underground streetwise people indeed, which gets read and taken at face value by other, equally clueless people who are equally naive in assuming that assuming the worst is somehow not being naive. Exactly the same as people who still beleive “all the best cheats use osp”.

Modifying cvars is not cheating? What a dork you are. Modifying PB in ANY way is cheating. What is the purpose in doing it if not to avert it’s security features?

(Emon) #15

You mean the kind experienced with the engine that actually has a clue about what they speak, unlike mostly everyone else around here? I agree!

(DrGratis) #16

Uhhh If you spectate someone else, don’t YOUR cvars affect what is shown? not his?

(not to get the topic of its current Cvars are cheating no they are yes the are thread…)

(SCDS_reyalP) #17

grudge, you clearly don’t understand pb. It lets server admins restrict cvars. Which cvars are restricted is entirely up to the admin. So blaming cvar tweaking on pb is ignorant.

Secondly, fog is cheat protected. Barring actual hacks, or cheat enabled servers, you cannot turn it off. There have been cvar hacks (that is, programs which allow you to change cheat protected cvars) as well as various other programs that let you turn off fog etc. While many of these are detected by pb, there are probably some which aren’t. You are still showing your ignorance, because if they are seeing through fog, this isn’t a cvar tweaking issue, but a cheating issue.

Thirdly, not all video cards implement fog in exactly the same way. It is possible that they could just barely see you, while you couldn’t see them. It is also possible that they just fired at your muzzle flash and got lucky.

It is quite possible that you encountered a cheater. However, cvar tweaking is completely irrelevent to that.

(I R O N M A N) #18

Let me correct you on each of these points.

<u>Modifying cvars has nothing to do with modifying PB in any way, unless theyre PB cvars… </u>

What type of cvars do you think we are talking about? Ham and eggs cvars? No. PB cvars. What are you thinking? If you think modifying PB in any way is not cheating, that raises a brow with me. I mean, reall now. Just try to come up with ANY reason to ever modify anything about PB on the server. Can’t come up with a sensible reason can ya? Know why? There are none! Obviously, tinkering with the game’s security software is something only cheaters would have an interest in. If you wnat to change something about your PB, change it’s downloading updates for PB. Anything other than that is suspect.

<u>Cheating is not easy to spot at all.</u>

Way off again, Pal. Cheating has always been easy to spot, always will be in almost any game, especially First Person Shooters. Unless they are lagged out bad (and I was not talking about the few obvious things that might help someone accidentally suspect another of cheating) any average player, even the so-called “newbies” can easily spot cheating.
What in the world makes you think that when you die regularly from 2 or 3 rounds from 100 yds. with an SMG that cheating is not happening? Do yourself a favor. Start a server, find a wall, step back just 60 paces and fire your weapon. Move up to the wall and take a look. lol

I have played multiplayer FPS games since Descent was released in 1995, before even Quake was available. I’ve played the best and worst players in the world, and I can tell you definitively that cheating is very easy to spot.

Here’s a little data for those who say autoaim is seldom the reason someone died so easilty. I actually conducted a test in RTCW with a friend last month. Try this for yourself:

I fired short bursts AND long ones at his head from across the Allied spawn room on the Assult map with the Thompson, the MP40, and the Sten. With the Tommy Gun, 5 bullets hit him, 2 in the head, killing him. With the MP40, 3 bullets hit him, none in the head. With the Sten, 5 hit him, 3 in the head. But that’s at @ only 40 paces. At the equivalent of 80-100 yrds, you will be lucky to hit someone with 3 or 4 out of 10 bullets, and luckier yet if one of them hits them in the head. WORD

<u>The vast majority of the time someone screams cheater, theyre just upset because…</u>

Not at all anything like the majority. More like the minority at best. Do you think players cannot see how the game works? You have this backwards. The vast majority of the time when someone screans cheater it is because they were killed more than once by a punk who is using an artificial assist, or they have noticed that a number of players are using them because things are happening that should not happen, like being killed with 2 or 3 rounds from 80 yards consistently. Players are not stupid. But saying that it’s hard for players to see what is and is not natural about the game as they play… well… that is stupid.

(DG) #19

What type of cvars do you think we are talking about? Ham and eggs cvars? No. PB cvars. What are you thinking?

erm ok, so which PB cvars can you modify to cheat? I’m sure Evenbalance would be greatly surprised and would want to know. Pb_cl_aimbot 1?

I have played with, against and adminned the best players in the UK, and some of those in Europe. I havent ever seen even a possible cheater be as good as that. Try stepping back 60 paces and crouching and have a look at the spread. Try just tapping the fire button, instead of jamming the finger on the button. Try there being half a clip of bullets whizzing around which your ET client just didnt draw, until oops server says hitscan says you lost health buddy. You think every time you die suddenly that youve been aimbotted? Every time you get a couple in the head? LOL. Remeber many quality ET players have had 18+ months of experience with a versy similar game indeed, RTCW. I used the nseven aim assist on a private test server, and it didnt get anything like 100% accuracy on moving targets, hardly any better than un-assisted, just took a lot less effort. You’ll find at significant distance an aimbot is usually HARD to use against moving targets, aimbots do not lead the target.

Maybe you just need some skill?

Big can of petrol for the thread, PB cvar restrictions explained.

(SCDS_reyalP) #20

Your ‘corrections’ expose you astounding ignorance on the subject.

pb cvars are the ones the control pb itself. Changing them isn’t cheating. Other cvars are protected by pb. If cvars protected by pb can be changed, that is indeed cheating. It has nothing to do with ‘cvar tweaking’.

Changing cvars which are cheat protected by the game is also cheating (duh) and has something to do with pb, because it should detect these. Again, nothing to do with the dreaded ‘cvar tweaking’

Changing cvars which are neither protected by pb nor cheat protected by the game is, by definition NOT CHEATING.

<u>Cheating is not easy to spot at all.</u>

Way off again, Pal. Cheating has always been easy to spot, always will be in almost any game, especially First Person Shooters. Unless they are lagged out bad (and I was not talking about the few obvious things that might help someone accidentally suspect another of cheating) any average player, even the so-called “newbies” can easily spot cheating.
What in the world makes you think that when you die regularly from 2 or 3 rounds from 100 yds. with an SMG that cheating is not happening? Do yourself a favor. Start a server, find a wall, step back just 60 paces and fire your weapon. Move up to the wall and take a look. lol

Oh lord your are a n00b. If you think you can tell if someone is cheating just by their aim, you seriously need to get a clue. Or do you expect us to believe that ALL the top players in competition RTCW cheat ? Even at LAN events like qcon, where the computers are provided ? Even teams like ]NARF[ (multiple time US champs) who play from a public LAN ?

I have played multiplayer FPS games since Descent was released in 1995, before even Quake was available. I’ve played the best and worst players in the world, and I can tell you definitively that cheating is very easy to spot.

ROFL. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I suggest you pull the other leg. It has bells and whistles. Do you spot lots of ‘cheaters’ ?

Clearly you didn’t LEARN much in your years of FPS experience.