PSA for K/D Champions

[DirtyBuns]

@scrub_lord said:

@DirtyBuns said:
I’m not saying that it’s okay to not use my guns at all. For one, it’s impossible not to have some kind of weapon out most of the time.

Also not saying Engies and Medics are never at fault. It’s up to Engies to watch for the openings. But that’s the point. If you’re watching for the opening, you may not be as “combat aware” as someone who is just going there to kill.

I also agree that after a short time, Quick Join/Matchmaking seems whacked out of proportion and teams are just always off-balance it seems.

Killing does matter. But Killing doesn’t take care of everything.

It does seem like you are willing to put the blame on other people instead of yourself, however.

Whether or not the “K/D Champion” is being or toxic or not doesn’t detract from the fact that they’re probably right in their ranting. Only time I don’t see this being the case is if both of you were putting in work and the rest of the team dragging you both down, but I don’t think you’d be willing to blame the top scoring teammate unless you were doing poorly yourself.

I want to state for the record that I didn’t blame him. There’s moments of course where say, when I made a dash for the North Door with two other punters, that had I made the plant THAT time, you know the match would have turned.

In fact, I was fine with taking the loss. But he wasn’t. He kind of presumed nobody did anything. It’s too bad he didn’t realize that my K/D, while negative, was beside a score that indicated I was the one blasting open the North and South Doors.

There was a stretch of time I had both doors open and I had no idea where the “Champion” was. I type in U Chat: “Doors open. Storm the Medbay!” - NOTHING.

Instead that guy goes: “Where is team?”

But yeah… in the final analysis, it’s probable the whole team were just not very good in which case there was nothing either of us could do.

[ThunderZsolt]

@DirtyBuns said:
That’s the keyword right there. SCORE.

I generally agree, but it is way too easy to sit back with Redeye in your smoke, get godlike and topscore while not contributing to the objective at all.

On the other hand, flanking with a light merc and then getting 3 players from the enemy team chasing you for a good 40 seconds does help your team to do the objective (unless you do it with proxy and you are the only engineer in your team. then you should uninstall) but it doesn’t yield any score.

[DirtyBuns]

Yeah… I too like to focus on “Decisive Encounters”. One of my favorites as Aura is that point near the end of defence on Objective 2 of Dockyard. There’s a place there where if I plant my Healing Station just right… And if the “Champions” are just good enough, we can combine our efforts and make them seem like an immortal army!

Well… I guess in that case I rack up an incredibly high score. But… I’m not thinking points. I’m thinking: “THEY CAN’T PUSH THE EV! AND EVERYONE ON MY TEAM IS ALIIIIIVE!”

There’s that sweet spot where I run around with impunity just with my defribs out and the enemy cannot shoot me because my “Champions” are just pouring it on and I’m pouring immortal life juice on top of them - BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Szakalot]

@DirtyBuns said:

@Szakalot said:
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.

clear doesnt mean ‘i dont see anyone’. Clear means nobody is close enough to interrupt the plant

And also that if anyone can interrupt the plant that there is a way to mitigate the interruption. Ergo: “Body-blocking is a thing in Dirty Bomb”.

K/D Champions have to know that it’s OK to “eat a D” for the team.

body blocking is a very poor idea during planting. Its perfectly valid on defuse, but during plant your team will just be down by 2 players, not 1.

[Melinder]

Funny, after checking on this thread not long ago, I played a Stopwatch match where i netted 134 kills on Trainyard, and still managed to lose. In this game, specifically on Attack, our team failed to even get a single plant down on the Track Switch.

The game consisted of this scenario occurring over and over:

• I lead the charge with a single Phoenix on my tail (note that he had half a brain)
• I continue to kill 4-5 out of the 7 enemies.
• I eventually die due to exhausting all heals.
• I spectate my dysfunctional team, where half of them are staring at a wall or the floor, and the other half are flailing their mouse around attempting (and completely failing) to shoot the remaining 1-2 enemies.
• The remainder of the team gets wiped, and the cycle repeats.

Replace the dysfunctional team with players that have even below average stats (25% accuracy, are able to locate where the F key on their keyboard is), and the game was a piece of cake. It didn’t matter what I did to set up the remainder of the team for the easiest bombsite take possible, they simply couldn’t do it. I even had a situation where I got the entire team down, died to a mine (please remove Lock-On on Proxy), and watched the team struggle to even locate the bombsite for the 14 seconds everybody was dead.

The way us “Commandos” function as teammates is by essentially removing ourselves (this does not always happen), in return for removing multiple of the enemy. A one for one trade is usually a bad trade, a one for two trade is a good trade, so when somebody one for three -> five trades, and the team cant capitalise on that, look towards the ones who are failing to capitalise for blame.

[Szakalot]

@bgyoshi said:

@Szakalot said:
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.

You clearly don’t play engineer, or you only play Ranked

You have to plant when you have the chance to plant. You have to defuse as fast as you possibly can. Sometimes there isn’t time to try and fight off a 4v2 and it’s better for the KD Champ to body block for the engineer. Once the engi defuses you can both die and respawn with the rest of the team with a fresh timer to work on a push

When you’re attacking you can either choose to try and kill the enemy, then plant, or plant then kill the enemy. Engineers plant so fast that they can make that choice, so again, it’s often better to get the C4 down first, THEN defend. If you’re waiting for a team wipe, you’re probably not going to plant until the end of the match. Especially if you’re pushing with a medic, you can body block the engineer that’s planting and get revived by the medic.

Honestly whenever I play assault or tank, standing in front of the engineer and dying gets a lot more done than running off on my own to rack up kills. Body block to repair the EV, body block to plant, body block to defuse… I really can’t think of a situation where me body blocking a plant or repair in a 6v6 lead to our entire team getting wiped. Often times the 6v6 turns into a 3v4 or 2v3, and they can hold the point long enough for the team to respawn.

As much of a skill as it is for engineers to know when to plant, it’s a skill for assaults to know when engineers are doing the objective and need cover for the second or two it takes to plant, and for medics to know when to take cover so they can quick revive a fallen tank after a plant before he gets finished.

how about we don’t guess where we’re coming from, e.g. i could say your opinion is biased off maxlvl6servers, but surely its not.

nevertheless, the idea that doing objective under fire is very newbish, as good players will just punish you immediately. the C4 Sfx is easy to identify, so as soon as you plant, say underground first obj, the attackers will either rush you or your defenders. Even if you plonk C4 down it will get insta defused by defense. Defusing under fire is just as bad, if its more than halfway done you can go for it, but lemming proxies that just run at C4 and spam defuse make it very easy for offense: clear the engineers and control the objective until it blows.

I admit that sometimes, especially on 8v8 servers, one can capitalize on all the chaos and plant/defuse sneakily, but I’d argue its more due to poor gamesense in the other team and tunnel vision than a valid strategy. Try that shit in minlvl20 and your team will never get close to getting an obj done. I think that any tactic relying on enemy team being braindead is fairly shortsighted.

[Blargz]

DB is First Person SHOOTER. Not first person chit-chat. It’s ALL about killing enemy team. Watch any high lvl ranked or tournament game and You’ll see that You can’t do OBJ with enemies alive.

If someone is on massively negative KD (3/25), he probably spent more time just watching the game and he didn’t contribute to anything. Contrary to popular belief, low KD engineers are not effective/good players. They are part of the reason, why team lost.

I’d rather play with “champion” than “OBJ monkey” (90% of DB population), who is programmed to go straight to OBJ, ignore everything and everyone just to die 2 sec later, cursing his team for not “covering him”.

@DirtyBuns said:
2) If you racked up a lot of kills and the team still lost, you have to consider perhaps that you were far away from the actual Objectives where your combat abilities could have probably contributed to the win. In this case, you have yourself as well to blame for the loss.

Very often, I’m the only person with positive KD, (more kills than my entire team combined) playing the only medic, who is actually defending objective, while my team of fraggers, naders and vassilies is running around the map getting slaughtered and longspawned. I’m against badmouthing, but I can understand people who are losing their temper after playing basically alone.

[bgyoshi]

@Szakalot said:

I admit that sometimes, especially on 8v8 servers, one can capitalize on all the chaos and plant/defuse sneakily, but I’d argue its more due to poor gamesense in the other team and tunnel vision than a valid strategy. Try that @$!# in minlvl20 and your team will never get close to getting an obj done. I think that any tactic relying on enemy team being braindead is fairly shortsighted.

Not only do I do it on 6v6 Min lvl 20 all the time, I notice it happens with far more frequency on Min 20 servers than anywhere else. Sometimes you never get a chance to plant without incoming fire, that’s the beauty of a turtle shield. I’ve already lost count of the number of times I’ve dunked a shield and solo’d the objective while under fire.

Often times I’ll run a plant on the main objective specifically hoping I’ll get rushed by the whole team, as it will draw them off of secondary objectives and away from spawn so the team can recoup. I’ve planted final obj on Underground to get the enemy out of the generator room so we can take it over. I’ve planted second Obj on Trainyard to distract them from the track gate generator. I’ve planted first obj on underground to open up the south door. I never intend to win the game with the plant, but I will get our team better positioning while they defuse. Knowing how to move the enemy team around as an engineer is relatively critical.

Like I said, you have to know when to plant. Sometimes that’s under fire. Sometimes it’s not. That’s part of why 5v5 is such a terrible format. You’re basically forced into a 5 man death ball that can’t separate. 4v5 is almost unwinnable for the 4 man team, but 5v6 is a completely different beast. It doesn’t seem like +1 player changes much, but it really does.

[Sorotia]

@DirtyBuns said:

@Sorotia said:
If I can generally have a positive K/D and still do objectives then honestly most people should, I’m super casual when it comes to shooter…I’m not very good but I usually stay positive unless my entire team is getting spanked/spawn camped.

So I don’t see why other people can’t…I normally don’t care unless I’m like the only player who can stay positive on the entire team…

My experience with this game tells me that you are, indeed, a rare breed of Mercenary. Jackal and CDA should be paying you millions of Dirty Dollars to do their Dirty Work.

I’m really not that good…I have my days but I’m average at best and I play defensively…could score a 100 kills with few deaths and still lose.

If my whole team but me is in the negative then something is really wrong.

[scrub_lord]

I also wonder where people are getting the idea that somehow these players are getting all these kills in a position where they are far from the objective. Aside from killing multiple people as they spawn before they even get a chance to reach anyone on your team (and probably wont have a high K/D if they did this the entire game), they have to be in a high traffic area to get that many kills in the first place. lmfao

Do you really think someone is getting 100+ kills by killing outlier players the entire game? You’re seriously delusional. You guys are creating scenarios that don’t exist and don’t even make sense. As I said before, you’re just looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on instead of yourself.

[teflonlove]

@Szakalot said:
Another topic is people who keep on planting despite an approaching enemy, it almost never works, with the best case scenario being a death right after plant, making the team play 1 person down

Sadly suicide planting seems a valid approach with low skill teams. The typical scenario being:

1. Plant despite enemy approaching
2. Finish planting and get shot immediately afterwards
3. Wait for 5 enemy players to start defusing your C4
4. Friendly fragger blows up 5 enemies with a single frag
5. Respawn and Plant again, this time uncontested

[DirtyBuns]

@scrub_lord said:
I also wonder where people are getting the idea that somehow these players are getting all these kills in a position where they are far from the objective. Aside from killing multiple people as they spawn before they even get a chance to reach anyone on your team (and probably wont have a high K/D if they did this the entire game), they have to be in a high traffic area to get that many kills in the first place. lmfao

Do you really think someone is getting 100+ kills by killing outlier players the entire game? You’re seriously delusional. You guys are creating scenarios that don’t exist and don’t even make sense. As I said before, you’re just looking for a scapegoat to put the blame on instead of yourself.

No no no… it was ONE time (or a few times) that this “Invisible Rambo” thing is happening. I have to say that there are more than a few times when I’m perfectly happy with the “champions” I get.

Like today. I had an Aimee and a Fragger sitting atop the hole in the Medbay.
Aimee player calls me on chat: “PLANT! NOW! RIGHT BELOW THE HOLE!”

I plant… KABOOM!.. we win stopwatch as the enemy dies in a hail of Aimee and Fragger gunfire.

Yes… it was at great personal risk to me since the enemy were about to storm the doorway at the time… But… Hey! My “Champions” were WITH me!

[DirtyBuns]

@Blargz said:
Very often, I’m the only person with positive KD, (more kills than my entire team combined) playing the only medic, who is actually defending objective, while my team of fraggers, naders and vassilies is running around the map getting slaughtered and longspawned. I’m against badmouthing, but I can understand people who are losing their temper after playing basically alone.

The same can happen to Engies… it can feel sometimes like there’s nobody there with you and you’re the only one “trying to win”.

[Sairdontis]

@scrub_lord said:

@Sairdontis said:

@scrub_lord said:
Notice how it’s always the trashbin players who are the ones who make the argument that killing players isn’t important and that they are “objective players.” It seems like they just want a scapegoat for their inability to aim in a shooting game.

Good job trying to blame the people on your team who are actually good at the game instead of your inability to move a mouse and keep your crosshairs on people. Seriously, just think about it for a second. If one person is killing 4+ people on their own consistently and the team is still struggling to finish the objective, then who is at fault? That means everyone else can’t pull their own weight. Yet here you mongoloids are trying to blame the person putting the most work in.

If killing people isn’t so important, try playing a match where your entire team doesn’t shoot the whole time. Good luck.

Try to look it this way. Player one goes out to kill x number of enemies. They run out and get seen now maybe the enemy simply by passes them to the obj. Now the enemy meets the actually defense or offense depending on what you are playing. The defense has a few aoe mercs who don’t kill the enemies but weakens them for the Hero would doesn’t know the meaning of the word teamwork gets a few easy kills bumping them up on the scoreboard, so much skill for them.

There are many views of the battlefield. Try and look past your own personal glory and instead look the glory of the team in this TEAM game.

Okay cool let’s just create hypotheticals in an attempt to get my point across.

The problem is, if the “Hero” killed multiple people and the others made it past them (somehow without them noticing) then wtf is the rest of the team doing? If the “Hero” put down even just 2 people, then that puts his entire team at a numbers advantage. If the rest failed then that means YET AGAIN they can’t pull their own weight.

This is why kills are so important. You guys keep reiterating that kills aren’t important, yet you can’t finish the objective, because you own team is getting killed. Irony right?

Nice argument dude. Try again.

Lead a horse to water…ah well. Simple to the point: The hero(s) was/were out of position 90% of the match and the team was down 3-4 mercs because of it. They kill a few but are not where they are needed most, but this just in if you kill enough the obj magically now just arms/ defuses on its own. Now we can just remove the engineer mercs from the game and all is well for the kill lemmings.

[brian770]

i am a shameless objective whore, i usually have the worst k/d on team ( .4-.8 ) but i charge and plant/repair, die and do it again, i usually get most of the objectives. i have said screw it and went medic cause i felt nobody was even trying to help with objective, and found that nobody was. THIS GAME IS NOT TEAM DEATH MATCH in any way shape or form. having a huge bodycount or epic k/d means jackshit if you dont do the objectives. some of the best/fastest matches i have seen are when the whole team rushes the objective and swamps the other team quickly, not stays back and worrys about getting killed. all have different playstyles and that style might work for them, but the champ k/d guys should remember that without the objective guys dieing over and over to move the EV or plant the bomb they wont win, no matter how many guys they kill. as for waiting for the right time to repair, total BS, the right time is when you get there, when winning or loosing is down to just a few seconds why wait?

[DirtyBuns]

Well… Similarly I’ve found that factoring in the possibility of either:

1. Braindead Champions
2. Braindead Lemmings

The surest way to safeguard my score and somehow still make a difference with winning/losing is to play medic.

In fact, I’ll probably buy Sparks for this purpose as she specializes in raising zombie armies. That and the fact that I already have her Get Up + Potent Packs card which I’ve found is perfect for this purpose.

[Sairdontis]

@DirtyBuns said:
Well… Similarly I’ve found that factoring in the possibility of either:

1. Braindead Champions
2. Braindead Lemmings

The surest way to safeguard my score and somehow still make a difference with winning/losing is to play medic.

In fact, I’ll probably buy Sparks for this purpose as she specializes in raising zombie armies. That and the fact that I already have her Get Up + Potent Packs card which I’ve found is perfect for this purpose.

Agreed. I have found myself playing a medic even when I would rather play something else just to keep the team limping forward.

[Pumpkiller]

I can’t even slightly believe pepole are actually trying to convince pepole kills don’t matter in a Team based FPS.

What about successful flankers who play Assaults/Supports to destroy deployables and target medics to help your team pushing?

What about those other guys who can’t do anything other than trying to get frags because their team is spreading around like bloody idiots, not supporting him, dying and not getting on the objective when he’s almost done wiping the entire opposing team?

Most of the time, your top fragger ain’t here to baby sit you: he’s supposed to do what his name suggests, shoot players,attract some heat and strike fear on the enemy team.

It’s like saying water isn’t important because the human body doesn’t run only on that. Sure, air and food are essential too, but don’t tell me drinking water is bad.

[Sairdontis]

@Pumpkiller said:
I can’t even slightly believe pepole are actually trying to convince pepole kills don’t matter in a Team based FPS.

What about successful flankers who play Assaults/Supports to destroy deployables and target medics to help your team pushing?

What about those other guys who can’t do anything other than trying to get frags because their team is spreading around like bloody idiots, not supporting him, dying and not getting on the objective when he’s almost done wiping the entire opposing team?

Most of the time, your top fragger ain’t here to baby sit you: he’s supposed to do what his name suggests, shoot players,attract some heat and strike fear on the enemy team.

It’s like saying water isn’t important because the human body doesn’t run only on that. Sure, air and food are essential too, but don’t tell me drinking water is bad.

Top fraggers are usually good at drawing heat, but they are not going to do that stalking around looking for stragglers like a sniper. And most of time the fragger is a fragger because their aim sucks and they are trying to get aoe kills only forgetting what their primary weapon is for.

They run up and get a group, hurrah!! , they miss and dead and now the team is -1 while defending a full group who just got topped off by a team minded medic all the while your medic is running around with a shotgun trying to get hopshot kills after running past downed teamates.

k/d can be hit and miss like an all in bet when you win you can win big or of course you can lose it all. 1 vs 8 what do you think the odds are?

[DirtyBuns]

I saw just yesterday a gameplay video where a “Champion” bailed on an encounter because: “That’s a burst rifle the enemy has. Nope! I want NONE of that!”

Yeah? Some “Champion” he turned out to be. If he doesn’t want to frag that guy, what makes him think the others on his team can?

Let’s just admit that sometimes Top Fraggers can let a team down as many ways as Dumb Lemmings can.