If I can generally have a positive K/D and still do objectives then honestly most people should, I’m super casual when it comes to shooter…I’m not very good but I usually stay positive unless my entire team is getting spanked/spawn camped.
So I don’t see why other people can’t…I normally don’t care unless I’m like the only player who can stay positive on the entire team…
@Sorotia said:
If I can generally have a positive K/D and still do objectives then honestly most people should, I’m super casual when it comes to shooter…I’m not very good but I usually stay positive unless my entire team is getting spanked/spawn camped.So I don’t see why other people can’t…I normally don’t care unless I’m like the only player who can stay positive on the entire team…
My experience with this game tells me that you are, indeed, a rare breed of Mercenary. Jackal and CDA should be paying you millions of Dirty Dollars to do their Dirty Work.
@Szakalot said:
game is fast and any left alive enemy can theoretically come out of nowhere and rek you.
Here is the problem, when doing the objective even if the area is clear, you are completely defenceless and much like what you said any sort of rando can come at you and interrupt you long enough for his team to follow him and push back all the attackers.
let’s make three different scenarios where our K/D champion is in diffrent places on underground while the engie plants along with two other teamates with average pub skill (basically they are meh)
1st scenario: the engie is planting with his two buddies in the same room, meanwhile the MLG Vas is camping in spawn, he kills anyone that comes into the right side of the map, however the enemies still have full acess to the objective as long as they take the right stairs.
Some random proxy jump out of nowhere and blasts the engie’s head off, his two teamates are only of average skill level and couldn’t kill the proxy before she shot, now the entire enemy team is coming since the Vas doesn’t cover the objective and the push failed because of a single suprise attack no one could’ve predicted.
2nd scenario: same thing except this time the Vas is near the engineer and is covering the objective.
A wild Proxy appears however our K/D champion 360 noscopes her and the engineer successfully plants the C4 and the push is a success.
3rd scenario: Same exact thing as the 2nd scenario.
However instead of a Proxy which jumps onto the engie, it is a Phantom who jumps onto him from the roof and insta kills him, something not even our K/D champ could’ve noticed or stopped.
the enemy team respawned and is heading to the medbay, this time however the objective is held and the engie comes back to plant since our K/D champ was here to help hold the objective this time around.
you will notice that where the K/D champ was doing his killing was the deciding factor of wether the push was successful or not.
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.
clear doesnt mean ‘i dont see anyone’. Clear means nobody is close enough to interrupt the plant
it’s not always possible to get an all clear scenario, and even if you do there is going to be that one bugger who was hiding from everyone and who jumps at you last second to screw it all up
its not always possible, but its often very doable. its a spectrum of safety, with the only real guarantee being an enemy teamwipe.
Another topic is people who keep on planting despite an approaching enemy, it almost never works, with the best case scenario being a death right after plant, making the team play 1 person down
@Szakalot said:
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.
You clearly don’t play engineer, or you only play Ranked
You have to plant when you have the chance to plant. You have to defuse as fast as you possibly can. Sometimes there isn’t time to try and fight off a 4v2 and it’s better for the KD Champ to body block for the engineer. Once the engi defuses you can both die and respawn with the rest of the team with a fresh timer to work on a push
When you’re attacking you can either choose to try and kill the enemy, then plant, or plant then kill the enemy. Engineers plant so fast that they can make that choice, so again, it’s often better to get the C4 down first, THEN defend. If you’re waiting for a team wipe, you’re probably not going to plant until the end of the match. Especially if you’re pushing with a medic, you can body block the engineer that’s planting and get revived by the medic.
Honestly whenever I play assault or tank, standing in front of the engineer and dying gets a lot more done than running off on my own to rack up kills. Body block to repair the EV, body block to plant, body block to defuse… I really can’t think of a situation where me body blocking a plant or repair in a 6v6 lead to our entire team getting wiped. Often times the 6v6 turns into a 3v4 or 2v3, and they can hold the point long enough for the team to respawn.
As much of a skill as it is for engineers to know when to plant, it’s a skill for assaults to know when engineers are doing the objective and need cover for the second or two it takes to plant, and for medics to know when to take cover so they can quick revive a fallen tank after a plant before he gets finished.
I’m not a Super Engie by any means, but as an expression of the current experience, @bgyoshi has mine spot on.
Sometimes the stealth element of this game is down to actually NOT shooting the enemy and just sprinting. There seems to be a subliminal element (sometimes) where players don’t react if someone isn’t shooting at them.
Other than that, yes, I’ve also had success with planting while guarded by at least one “Champion”… such that if our “Champion” and the enemy “Champion” are circling each other… Yes… I will get the plant, and I may yet help kill the enemy “Champion”.
It’s like if the “Enemy Champion” chooses to go at me, he’s dead because our “Champion” will drill him immediately. If he goes after our “Champion” I get the plant, and with the plant is the chance to move the action to my location to defend it. So the “Champion” may get help.
That element of “moving the action to the ticking C4” is also why sometimes, depending on how much time is left, and your relative team strength at the time, it is sometimes worth it to just “dive in and plant”. Once the C4 planted message comes on and if you believe, you hope, that your team can just get there in time… even if I go back to respawn. It may be worth it.
It’s the old FBI adage: “Present yourself as the biggest threat to the enemy, and the enemy will shoot YOU instead of hostages or other less able threats.”
My success rate at Dirty Bomb is tied almost entirely to my ability to bring the action to objectives (or to my healing station).
The one thing I could never wrap around was how as Engie or Medic I could have synergy with a Vas as it feels like I’m spread too thin since he can be far away, or hiding in locations I cannot reach due to lack of skill, or he’s wiping out an area that may provide access to planting location but the planting location isn’t covered and the time is moving and so on.
And yes…there has been quite some success with me sitting beneath the ass of friendly Rhino, while he eats enemy bullets and I fix the EV.
What is playing the objective? Running up and trying to plant over and over and dying?
You can’t plant without killing people. You can’t deliver without killing people. You can’t defend without killing people. You can’t win without killing people.
The people who get over 50% of the kills of the entire team are carrying everyone way harder than you think. When someone single handedly kills 4 people on the enemy team, dies, and then nobody can pick up the slack and finish the point is just sad.
Dirty Bomb is designed towhere every class is effective at slaying, so medics who only heal and engineers who only do the objectives are useless players. End of discussion.
@bgyoshi said:
@Szakalot said:
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.You clearly don’t play engineer, or you only play Ranked
You have to plant when you have the chance to plant. You have to defuse as fast as you possibly can. Sometimes there isn’t time to try and fight off a 4v2 and it’s better for the KD Champ to body block for the engineer. Once the engi defuses you can both die and respawn with the rest of the team with a fresh timer to work on a push
When you’re attacking you can either choose to try and kill the enemy, then plant, or plant then kill the enemy. Engineers plant so fast that they can make that choice, so again, it’s often better to get the C4 down first, THEN defend. If you’re waiting for a team wipe, you’re probably not going to plant until the end of the match. Especially if you’re pushing with a medic, you can body block the engineer that’s planting and get revived by the medic.
Honestly whenever I play assault or tank, standing in front of the engineer and dying gets a lot more done than running off on my own to rack up kills. Body block to repair the EV, body block to plant, body block to defuse… I really can’t think of a situation where me body blocking a plant or repair in a 6v6 lead to our entire team getting wiped. Often times the 6v6 turns into a 3v4 or 2v3, and they can hold the point long enough for the team to respawn.
As much of a skill as it is for engineers to know when to plant, it’s a skill for assaults to know when engineers are doing the objective and need cover for the second or two it takes to plant, and for medics to know when to take cover so they can quick revive a fallen tank after a plant before he gets finished.
This this this. Many don’t understand this important point.
@Szakalot said:
no: the planting engineer shouldnt start planting until they know its clear.clear doesnt mean ‘i dont see anyone’. Clear means nobody is close enough to interrupt the plant
And also that if anyone can interrupt the plant that there is a way to mitigate the interruption. Ergo: “Body-blocking is a thing in Dirty Bomb”.
K/D Champions have to know that it’s OK to “eat a D” for the team.
Notice how it’s always the trashbin players who are the ones who make the argument that killing players isn’t important and that they are “objective players.” It seems like they just want a scapegoat for their inability to aim in a shooting game.
Good job trying to blame the people on your team who are actually good at the game instead of your inability to move a mouse and keep your crosshairs on people. Seriously, just think about it for a second. If one person is killing 4+ people on their own consistently and the team is still struggling to finish the objective, then who is at fault? That means everyone else can’t pull their own weight. Yet here you mongoloids are trying to blame the person putting the most work in.
If killing people isn’t so important, try playing a match where your entire team doesn’t shoot the whole time. Good luck.
@scrub_lord said:
Notice how it’s always the trashbin players who are the ones who make the argument that killing players isn’t important and that they are “objective players.” It seems like they just want a scapegoat for their inability to aim in a shooting game.Good job trying to blame the people on your team who are actually good at the game instead of your inability to move a mouse and keep your crosshairs on people. Seriously, just think about it for a second. If one person is killing 4+ people on their own consistently and the team is still struggling to finish the objective, then who is at fault? That means everyone else can’t pull their own weight. Yet here you mongoloids are trying to blame the person putting the most work in.
If killing people isn’t so important, try playing a match where your entire team doesn’t shoot the whole time. Good luck.
Try to look it this way. Player one goes out to kill x number of enemies. They run out and get seen now maybe the enemy simply by passes them to the obj. Now the enemy meets the actually defense or offense depending on what you are playing. The defense has a few aoe mercs who don’t kill the enemies but weakens them for the Hero would doesn’t know the meaning of the word teamwork gets a few easy kills bumping them up on the scoreboard, so much skill for them.
There are many views of the battlefield. Try and look past your own personal glory and instead look the glory of the team in this TEAM game.
@Sairdontis said:
@scrub_lord said:
Notice how it’s always the trashbin players who are the ones who make the argument that killing players isn’t important and that they are “objective players.” It seems like they just want a scapegoat for their inability to aim in a shooting game.Good job trying to blame the people on your team who are actually good at the game instead of your inability to move a mouse and keep your crosshairs on people. Seriously, just think about it for a second. If one person is killing 4+ people on their own consistently and the team is still struggling to finish the objective, then who is at fault? That means everyone else can’t pull their own weight. Yet here you mongoloids are trying to blame the person putting the most work in.
If killing people isn’t so important, try playing a match where your entire team doesn’t shoot the whole time. Good luck.
Try to look it this way. Player one goes out to kill x number of enemies. They run out and get seen now maybe the enemy simply by passes them to the obj. Now the enemy meets the actually defense or offense depending on what you are playing. The defense has a few aoe mercs who don’t kill the enemies but weakens them for the Hero would doesn’t know the meaning of the word teamwork gets a few easy kills bumping them up on the scoreboard, so much skill for them.
There are many views of the battlefield. Try and look past your own personal glory and instead look the glory of the team in this TEAM game.
Okay cool let’s just create hypotheticals in an attempt to get my point across.
The problem is, if the “Hero” killed multiple people and the others made it past them (somehow without them noticing) then wtf is the rest of the team doing? If the “Hero” put down even just 2 people, then that puts his entire team at a numbers advantage. If the rest failed then that means YET AGAIN they can’t pull their own weight.
This is why kills are so important. You guys keep reiterating that kills aren’t important, yet you can’t finish the objective, because you own team is getting killed. Irony right?
Nice argument dude. Try again.
Once you reach say, level 35-40 or so, the game begins pairing you with pretty bad players more often than not. It’s frustrating to have a 4-5 or 15 KDR going in Stopwatch only to reach halftime [confused] and realize nobody on your team has a positive KDR. You have several times more points than your team or more points than the entire team combined… and you feel helpless.
That is why people with good KDR’s say these things. I’m guilty of it from time to time as well. There are things to consider, such as what role and such the players are using, but you can’t just say “I’m a medic so I have a 2-22 KDR”. That doesn’t fly with me. I’ve done outrageous scores with medics before to the tune of 2.0, 3.0, 15.0, 20.0 KDR with medics… and no, I’m not even really that great at this game.
So yeah, when you are the only one getting kills, it means when you die, your entire team gets pushed back because you become more valuable than the rest of your team combined. It’s frustrating. This happens a lot more often than players are willing to admit, in all honesty - even in ranked sometimes.
People that say “Kills don’t matter” also say “score doesn’t matter” and a wide variety of “[insert here] doesn’t matter”. So… what matters then? “Something” matters. It’s ok to be bad at the game at the end of the day, and I’ve really gotten quite used to telling people things like, “it’s ok bud, you’re level 9, you’ll get better” and things of that nature, but it’s certainly aggravating if you’re a medium-high level player and the game pairs you with teams like this.
@P_A_C_M_A_N said:
Once you reach say, level 35-40 or so, the game begins pairing you with pretty bad players more often than not. It’s frustrating to have a 4-5 or 15 KDR going in Stopwatch only to reach halftime [confused] and realize nobody on your team has a positive KDR. You have several times more points than your team or more points than the entire team combined… and you feel helpless.That is why people with good KDR’s say these things. I’m guilty of it from time to time as well. There are things to consider, such as what role and such the players are using, but you can’t just say “I’m a medic so I have a 2-22 KDR”. That doesn’t fly with me. I’ve done outrageous scores with medics before to the tune of 2.0, 3.0, 15.0, 20.0 KDR with medics… and no, I’m not even really that great at this game.
So yeah, when you are the only one getting kills, it means when you die, your entire team gets pushed back because you become more valuable than the rest of your team combined. It’s frustrating. This happens a lot more often than players are willing to admit, in all honesty - even in ranked sometimes.
People that say “Kills don’t matter” also say “score doesn’t matter” and a wide variety of “[insert here] doesn’t matter”. So… what matters then? “Something” matters. It’s ok to be bad at the game at the end of the day, and I’ve really gotten quite used to telling people things like, “it’s ok bud, you’re level 9, you’ll get better” and things of that nature, but it’s certainly aggravating if you’re a medium-high level player and the game pairs you with teams like this.
This guy knows what’s up. I don’t advocate the high scoring players who bad mouth their team, even though I’ve done it at times out of frustration. What really ticks me off is when a teammate puts the blame on me while I’m carrying tf out of my entire team.
Btw, I made a new account to experiment with how the game balances teams and it doesn’t seem like player level matters. My new account has better stats than my main one, being that I’m a better player now than when I started playing and it gets just as a harsh treatment as my main account when it comes to team balance. It’s probably just SPM taken into account.
I’m not saying that it’s okay to not use my guns at all. For one, it’s impossible not to have some kind of weapon out most of the time.
Also not saying Engies and Medics are never at fault. It’s up to Engies to watch for the openings. But that’s the point. If you’re watching for the opening, you may not be as “combat aware” as someone who is just going there to kill.
I also agree that after a short time, Quick Join/Matchmaking seems whacked out of proportion and teams are just always off-balance it seems.
Killing does matter. But Killing doesn’t take care of everything. But Killing is VERY IMPORTANT. In fact all I wished for in the OP was that whoever is good at killing just make sure every bad guy in a radius of me is down if I’m planting. 
And what’s wrong with Body-Blocking, or Engie Circling? I would love “Champions” on my team who know how to do these things, and supposedly if they’re “that good” they can do this right? And not run off on their own?
It’s not unreasonable right? Oh… you’re so good at wiping out half the enemy team? Great! Let’s start with you just scrubbing out that ONE guy who can stop my planting… Because that’s the one that counts.
@DirtyBuns said:
I’m not saying that it’s okay to not use my guns at all. For one, it’s impossible not to have some kind of weapon out most of the time.Also not saying Engies and Medics are never at fault. It’s up to Engies to watch for the openings. But that’s the point. If you’re watching for the opening, you may not be as “combat aware” as someone who is just going there to kill.
I also agree that after a short time, Quick Join/Matchmaking seems whacked out of proportion and teams are just always off-balance it seems.
Killing does matter. But Killing doesn’t take care of everything.
It does seem like you are willing to put the blame on other people instead of yourself, however.
Whether or not the “K/D Champion” is being or toxic or not doesn’t detract from the fact that they’re probably right in their ranting. Only time I don’t see this being the case is if both of you were putting in work and the rest of the team dragging you both down, but I don’t think you’d be willing to blame the top scoring teammate unless you were doing poorly yourself.
@Sairdontis said:
Try to look it this way. Player one goes out to kill x number of enemies. They run out and get seen now maybe the enemy simply by passes them to the obj. Now the enemy meets the actually defense or offense depending on what you are playing. The defense has a few aoe mercs who don’t kill the enemies but weakens them for the Hero would doesn’t know the meaning of the word teamwork gets a few easy kills bumping them up on the scoreboard, so much skill for them.There are many views of the battlefield. Try and look past your own personal glory and instead look the glory of the team in this TEAM game.
I have definitely exploited this also against over eager enemy “Champions”. You run right past them, and you get a free plant.
But yeah, when enemies run past our “Champion”… and he doesn’t care… -1 for us. 