Please nerf slashkill

(kotkis) #161

No, no, no! Disabling /kill is not an otion. It’s part of the game!

(FstFngrz) #162

(RivrStyx) #163

Not an option…its a big part of the game. It can be abused i guess… but when its used in a stategic manner… its :eek: .

(Ifurita) #164

I’d be happy with persistant charge across respawns. IMO, the “abuse” of /kill to respawn with full charge far outweighs any XP denial from /kill just before an enemy finishes you off.

([B]Visa) #165

Read the thread… We’re not talking about removing it, we’re talking about figuring out a decent way to keep it from being extremely abused.

Ike-T

(kotkis) #166

Read the thread… We’re not talking about removing it, we’re talking about figuring out a decent way to keep it from being extremely abused.

Ike-T[/quote]
Yes I know that you are not talking about removing it, but some people obviously do.

(HellToupee) #167

well it really isnt part of the game sure its in the game but so is ui_fullscreen mptich center screen all things that have ben cracked down upon also it is undocumented, not in the options menu, only reason its probly been included is for getting out of being stuck. All that we ask is measures taken to eliminate its advantages, things like spawing for full charge ammo, health and stats are all abusing it, how should nerfing /kill hurt competitive play it should reinforce it teams wont be able to regroup instantly when they time their /kills, or if the attack forces them to pull back they wont just be able to /kill and spawn across the map thru greater skill is required as a team. Spammy tactics should be less abused, i rember my games of beach where the defenders used /kill heavly.

If you want to die it should be from what you can do in a game not some command bound to a button to be used to your advantage, /kill offers little to the attackers but greaty helps the defenders which often spawn close to the objective.

(GrumpyDog) #168

I’ve seen /kill used by a large group of players to time a flag capture so that every one spawns at the newly captured flag. I haven’t seen anyone intentionally /kill themselves to save from being killed. If they did they would be wasting their time respawning and away from the action.

I think you should get your XPs reset if you /kill yourself. I think that would put a dent in the ego of the /kill’er.

:beer:

(HellToupee) #169

i know what would be good, there should be a 6-10 second dely on /kill and while in that 6-10 seconds you cant move, only a slight dely for a person whos stuck but a total nerfing for abusers, even having to waste time with a ande should be faster.

(kotkis) #170

I still can’t understand how removing kill or changing the way it works would make the game better (and I’m not talking about removing XP). I don’t see what’s the fun of walking half the map just to see your team mates at the flag. Instead I do enjoy when one of our players gets sneaked behind the enemy and caps the flag at the very last second and due the right timed /kill the whole team spawns to the flag and can move on.

(Coolhand) #171

What is ET? It’s a wargame (and a very good one). It simulates clashes of small groups of individual soldiers. It is the latest in a series of wargame simulations. The first of these probably used sticks and stones to represent the troops on the ground: later came more abstract games like chess and Go, then came tabletop wargames using “toy soldiers”, printing allowed the development of still more flexible simulations using paper maps and cardboard counters.

Today’s computer technology allows the realism of the simulation to be greatly superior to anything that has gone before. Sure, there are flaws in the simulation: there always will be, until we develop the ability to build a virtual reality indistinguishable from the real thing.

But to us gamers the whole point is to make it a game, and one that is fun. Because of this there will always be some elements of the simulation that we won’t want to include - the pain of getting shot, for instance :wink:

Where in all this does the idea of taking a “suicide pill” to further the aims of your side fit in with the basic idea of simulating small troop movements on a battlefield? Answer: it doesn’t.

As far as I’m aware (and so far no one has leapt in to correct me) /kill only exists as a means by which players of RtCW / ET can extract themselves from being stuck in the scenery due to a map flaw. I suspect that map developers probably also use it to test the flow of the maps they create, so it may well have a legitimate use in map development. But there is no good reason why players of a finished game should have access to it (especially as the “stuck in the scenery” problem seems far less prevalent in ET, at least in the maps released to date).

As has been pointed out before, the ET interface does not itself provide a means to bind this function to a key. RtCW did… which suggests to me that the developers also implicitly agree that it shouldn’t be available to players. One effect of this is that only those with a greater knowledge of the game’s mechanics are able to utilise /kill at all… which means that these “expert” players have another tool they can use to “pwn the n00bs”.

Some people have claimed that “it’s all about balance”, and that removing /kill would therefore unbalance the game. I agree, it is about balance: clearly a lot of effort has gone into such design elements as how many ammo clips each class has, how quickly power bars replenish, how fast medics are able to heal their teammates, and even how fast players can move across the map. I maintain that /kill is an exploit because it is abused to violate all of these things. Far from creating an unbalanced game, it seems to me that removing /kill would actually restore the balance the developers intended!

Another thing: those players who believe it is an exploit simply don’t use it (in my book, it’s cheating). Since there are obvious benefits to using it, this means that if a team contains such players then that team is at a disadvantage. Worse, I’m sure that there will occasionally be some players on my team who get frustrated at me for not using it (or tk/revive, another exploit, although that’s another thread)… so teamwork - a major element of this game - goes out of the window.

Many people in this thread seem content with “just” penalising its use, but all of the suggestions made would require far more development effort to bring to fruition than would simple removal. I for one think that SD have done an excellent job in developing ET, and if they are going to spend further time on it to bring out a client side patch, it’s not fair to ask them to do a lot of work, when the relatively simple act of disabling /kill for players (perhaps in a way which leaves it available in map development mode) would just make all of these problems disappear.

Thanks for listening :slight_smile:

(GrumpyDog) #172

Yes! Totally. It is cheating to let one guy run up, touch a flag, and the whole team, and no matter where they are hiding/shooting/waiting at the time … poof! … hit a button to appear at the respawn flag. That is cheap.

Deep 6 the /kill stuff the simplest solution. If you get caught in a terrain feature during a match just call some noob a bad name and they’ll be happy enough to come over and TK you so you can respawn.

:beer:

(kotkis) #173

Ok I see that you understand that all games are not supposed try to get as realistic as possible with the current technique, good. Now I want you to think that the game doesn’t need to have any common sense to be fun. Of course this may be hard if you’re used to think that you’re in the middle of WW2 and then someone comes up to you and then just suddenly dies. For me this is not a problem, in the matter of fact I woulnd’t even care if the players would fight with vegetables instead of guns.

I’d really like to hear what SD thinks about using /kill in the game to catch the next respawn. I’m sure they were aware that it was used a lot in RtCW so I don’t understand why they didn’t disable it if they thought it was a problem. And as they have had some clan wars on ET I’m sure they’ve used it themselves too.

I understand that this all doesn’t mean much to you as a public player, but for clan players this is important. /kill is a great tactical tool which makes the game richer. If you disable it you get thousands of clan gamers against you. Not because their tactics are based on /killing (well, nobody has any proven tactics yet), but because they think it makes the game enjoyable.

On public-games I don’t think it would make such a big difference, there will be always stats-hunters, but for clan-gaming this would be huge change.

(Coolhand) #174

I have no problem with this: “different strokes for different folks”, as they say. If we were all the same, life would be pretty boring. If you want to shoot someone with a cucumber instead of an SMG, that’s your own affair :slight_smile: From my point of view, I cannot see the the point in expending all the effort to create a state of the art WWII simulation yet include a thing like /kill which simply does not belong there.

As bani said earlier in this thread, it looks like we’re talking about different games. And to me that is the real problem - we’re trying to play different games using the same engine: so I get in your way, and you get in mine :frowning:

If you read up earlier in this thread, you’ll see that I do understand the clan wars situation. I’ve been in a clan, and tbh I didn’t like it much. I’ve also been invited to join other clans since, but I’ve declined. I don’t mind getting owned by someone who is better than me if they play by the rules that (IMO) the game should be played by. But when exploits like /kill are used to beat your opponent - well, frankly, I think it sucks.

Yeah, me too. But although some SD people have contributed to other threads they’ve been quiet in this one, so far at least… whaddaya say, SD?

(GrumpyDog) #175

Oh Man…

First off, if thousands of “clan-players” need /kill to play effectively, they aren’t good players. It is still cheating.

Second, pub players are just as important to the game a CPs.

:beer:

(Kendle) #176

Damn, I just got back from 2 weeks holiday and you guys are still arguing this one? Just petition SD to make /kill an option so it can be turned on for Clan games, and off (at Server Admin’s discretion) for Public games, problem solved, cos neither side is going to convince the other to their way of thinking.

(HellToupee) #177

y should clans use /kill?

the only ones that get good use from it are the defenders, also ET opens new ways to exploit it.
Clans shouldnt have the use of sumthing like /kill ive played quite a bit of clan matches had one 3min game where the defending team had 5/kills a player we had none i had 4 guys /kill on me in a fight sure hes dead ither way but it sure as hell isnt fun if they just drop dead on you.

(senator) #178

This discussion is getting nowhere, I’ve only read the last two pages but you guys are already repeating yourself.

You want a penalty for /kill ? There already is one, a) you’r dead and more important b) you are starting at your respawn, away from the action.
If you are killed on the battlefield and are revived by a medic you are instanty back in action and far more usefull for your team so /kill to deny the enemy the XP for for death would be just stupid and frankly I’ve NEVER seen it !

/Kill has some advantages like quickly catching the next respawn cycle, possibly spawning in a new class or new location (flag captured), this might be an advantage but only GOOD players know how to use it. It’s a bonus, you get better in ET, you discover new tricks.

There are other ‘exploits’ by good players, they will time their arty strike with the enemy respawn time so that the first shells will fall once their invulnerability wears off, how about nerfing Arty than so that it can’t be ordered at that time on the enemy spawn ? LOL :smiley:

/Kill gives you zero advantage because everybody can use it, /Kill in combat is just stupid because you instantly loose a battle you might have won,
/kill to catch the repawn at a freshly captured flag is never a sure bet, I once tried it on osasis only to respawn at the default spawn again because the flag was recaptured in the last second,
/kill to start with new ammo is sometimes the only way in a team with very few on no FieldOps, especially of you ar a mortar wh0re ;),
/kill to recharge the energy bar is a slight explot but more than compensated by the fact that you have to run up from your spawn point and in the meantime your energy bar would have recharged anyway and you are one less gun fighting for your team during that time.

Leave /kill alone, it’s good the way it is.

(Coolhand) #179

I think you may have hit on a good compromise there, Kendle. I agree, it’s clear that there are many people who see nothing wrong with /kill :frowning:

([B]Visa) #180

Yes, and thank you for not adding anything fresh to the duscussion either.

Ike-T