Let me say I understand why people want to play with their friends on the same teams but Ive had way better games yesterday with more clutch play because of the lack of team stacking. As a solo player its incredibly frustrating to get on a pub and see the other side stacked with friends who have worked out tactics.
I will say with this new ui I can no longer right click people and add them as a friend? I do like to attempt to make friends in this game as I plan on playing competitively in the future.
Also let me add a lot fo the problems we have are with the smaller player base. This will change once the game is out of beta and gets a proper advert push.
It’s miserable. Several of my friends and I are likely going to quit playing this game just because you made it LITERALLY impossible to play on the same team as your friends. I can’t believe the short-sightedness into this decision.[/quote]
Its still fun to shoot your friend in the face
And for what? Pandering to a handful of people on the forums whining about “team stacking”?
stacking is actually a real problem.
Comp is broken and you can’t do ANYTHING to play with a group besides that. Even before you still had to go through a bunch of bs just to get on the same team as even one friend.
Comp is broken because of stacking. Its almost reversed what they should of done. Comp and stopwatch should have the random team thing and obj should be free for all do what you want. Private comp/stopwatch should allow teams to scrim without the random flip.
Could only join servers with an odd number of players and no less than 3 or 4 open slots just to make sure your friend can join by the time your name shows up as in a server. If other people loaded within that time and you got on different teams, the person on offense would have to go spectate, since attackers gets a player first and defense would have to be one person down for them to join.
Your frustration comes from trying to circumvent the current system.
Apparently it wasn’t already garbage enough how it was, where you can’t join any pubs with friends and have to wait for all the planets to align to get on the same team. Now you just can’t even do it.
[quote=“MarsRover;86075”]Balance isn’t done by level. It’s done by performance in 10 previous matches. So if you’re high level and play for lolz or just learning a new merc your rating will reflect that.[/quote]Is one’s rating based purely on points, or does it take into account other things as well? Just curious.
I’ve noticed everyone saying that this new system apparently promotes balance… but it hardly changes a thing. The system is also still rather flawed in that I often see groups of skilled players grouped on one team that completely destroys the other team. I still often see people in chat say, “Oh, this is a very balanced game”, as sarcastically as they would before the patch. I’m often still put on a team with the better players I play with, and now, instead of being able to play with friends on my team, we simply act like we don’t see one another and avoid shooting one another when we’re put on opposing teams. I’ve let my friend plant objectives and capture points just because we agreed not to shoot one another.
Team balance is almost non-existent, and now I can’t even play with my friends to make it more fun.
how would you know if you play solo? its funny that the people arguing how much more balanced it is probably don’t play with any friends.
Maybe they should switch it so you can play with friends in Objective but not in Stopwatch, since stopwatch is more serious and all the “solo players” who complain about stacked teams can play an extra round
[quote=“Halosheep;86515”]I’ve noticed everyone saying that this new system apparently promotes balance… but it hardly changes a thing. The system is also still rather flawed in that I often see groups of skilled players grouped on one team that completely destroys the other team. I still often see people in chat say, “Oh, this is a very balanced game”, as sarcastically as they would before the patch. I’m often still put on a team with the better players I play with, and now, instead of being able to play with friends on my team, we simply act like we don’t see one another and avoid shooting one another when we’re put on opposing teams. I’ve let my friend plant objectives and capture points just because we agreed not to shoot one another.
Team balance is almost non-existent, and now I can’t even play with my friends to make it more fun. [/quote]
The system makes an effort to properly balance players against each other by their effort and results in the last 10 games (it’s a hidden rating). However, it doesn’t factor in which mercs you were using (you might be using a new one), your overall team make-up (might not have medics) and the fact that people still leave/join during warm-up and during the game. Also, if one player is extremely good at the game it could be enough to sway things too.
It’s not going to be perfect but it’s definitely better than what it was in my experience from the last two nights.
And making an agreement not to shoot each other and then being upset about how the balance system isn’t working is seriously messed up in my opinion. Also, you can still play with them if you’re sorted to their team or switch to their team or them to yours while on server. It’s annoying but it’s possible so claiming you can’t do it is not accurate and not a good way to argue a point.
[quote=“B. Montiel;86343”]
I still don’t understand why they don’t segment more public servers. Min level 10 servers were already a big step forward. But add more options, like FF on servers, would also increase necessary skill neeeded on specific servers, which will automatically reduce skill gaps between players on those[/quote]
So I attempted to start up a min level 10 server recently. Here’s the results:
4 minutes pass I finally get a teammate in 1v2.
EV halfway to the objective.
5 minutes pass the teammate finally loads in and the EV is at the second objective.
6 minutes in, 3v4.
7 minutes, started to be a fair fight at 4v4, they but only have to deliver one more objective. Game ends.
Everyone quits and it's a 2v1. Game starts anyways on a new map.
After 20 minutes total, it finally becomes a 7v7. Game ends.
Everyone quits and it's a 1v3.
Game starts anyways. He gets stomped, obviously.
Game fills up around the last objective. Repeat cycle.
ALSO since it was the only min level 10 server up, more than half the players had pings of over 120 making it very enjoyable experience of getting shot through walls.
Yes, in an ideal world all the high level players should just go towards those servers. But based on that experience I had, I won’t be starting them up ever. Just like I won’t ever play competitive because everyone just quits. It’s about first impressions. Even if they revamp quickmatch, no one will use it because they’ve been burned countless times by getting placed into an empty lobby or a high pinging server. (Also I’m not sure why quickmatch couldn’t just wait to pair you with a few more people to start a server.)
You’ll have to be really careful about adding more specific types of servers. FF on servers, for example, won’t ever be populated after the newbies join and martydom the medic trying to revive them.
how would you know if you play solo? its funny that the people arguing how much more balanced it is probably don’t play with any friends.
Maybe they should switch it so you can play with friends in Objective but not in Stopwatch, since stopwatch is more serious and all the “solo players” who complain about stacked teams can play an extra round
[/quote]
The reason I know is because Im 40 years old and this isnt my first fps game
Come on. No. Party system is not a good idea either… Players will have to wait incredibly longer than they’re already are. I could give tons of reasons why I hate such systems and why I’ll leave this game as soon as they force us to join some party system to enter a game.
[/quote]
Party and matchmake could have worked day one open beta. It could have even worked in tandem with the server browser if the server browser was weighted to show you the matchmaking choices it WOULD have put you in anyways (ie, show the aggregate player levels, filter by that to always put the best matches at the top).
But right now it’s still an RNG selection to select a random server on a simplistic server browser. But even though I believe the server browser is the entire reason we are in this mess, I’d be still incredibly hesitant to remove it at this time.
[quote=“triteTongs;86539”][quote=“Amerika;86524”]
And making an agreement not to shoot each other and then being upset about how the balance system isn’t working is seriously messed up in my opinion. Also, you can still play with them if you’re sorted to their team or switch to their team or them to yours while on server. It’s annoying but it’s possible so claiming you can’t do it is not accurate and not a good way to argue a point.[/quote]
I can typically predict the way matchmaking balances.
With a pool of a level 31, 23, 6, 7, 8, 9, 8.
Matchmaking will split it up to the level 31, 6, 7 vs 23, 8, 9, 8.
The game will always stack less players on my team since I’m a high level.
My friend is the 23. I’m the level 31. Yes, he can easily switch over but it’s still a stomp and it doesn’t solve anything. Even if my friend does not join and I’m playing solo, I’m still level 31 against new players.
It blows my mind why the system can’t just matchmake and find two more high level players and place them into the server. You can’t balance this game with just the random players that join a random server who can then switch teams in-game. No amount of balance algorithms can fix that.
[quote=“B. Montiel;86343”][quote=“triteTongs;86101”]
Party system
[/quote]
Come on. No. Party system is not a good idea either… Players will have to wait incredibly longer than they’re already are. I could give tons of reasons why I hate such systems and why I’ll leave this game as soon as they force us to join some party system to enter a game.
[/quote]
Party and matchmake could have worked day one open beta. It could have even worked in tandem with the server browser if the server browser was weighted to show you the matchmaking choices it WOULD have put you in anyways (ie, show the aggregate player levels, filter by that to always put the best matches at the top).
But right now it’s still an RNG selection to select a random server on a simplistic server browser. But even though I believe the server browser is the entire reason we are in this mess, I’d be still incredibly hesitant to remove it at this time. [/quote]
Your level has no relevance towards your placement on a team. It’s entirely done by a 10 game hidden rank where it factors in how well everyone has done in their last 10 public games and places them that way. A level 50 could would be placed against a level 12 if both have had similar numbers in their last 10 games. So the system is working but it’s using hidden values while displaying worthless values.
This is yet another reason why I want account levels hidden (like they just did with ranked MM). People get understandably confused with balance overall because they assume your account level is factored when it literally does nothing at all in this game. If account levels were removed from view then it would alleviate a lot of those issues.
[quote=“Amerika;86541”]
Your level has no relevance towards your placement on a team. [/quote]
Rocket league displays your XP level. I have no idea if it balances to that, but it’s nice it does.
I’m less likely to be placed in servers where it’s filled with rookies. Sure, my rookies may have won 5 games in a row… but they are still rookies. So when I started out, I was placed with rookies and semi-pros. Now I’m placed with pros and veterans with the occasional semi-pro and rookie. But as soon as I get placed against three rookies or semi-pros, it’s a stomp because I know how to hit air shots and rookies don’t.
SAME with dirty bomb.
I don’t really care how well a level 6 did against other low level players. They still lack the EXPERIENCE high level players have.
One of the reasons I find this game boring is how I keep getting shuffled and stacked into servers and teams with low skilled players, players who are still learning what martydom does, how repairing works, etc. They could have won 10 games in a row, that’s great. But that really doesn’t help when an experienced player joins in. A newbie won’t know how to wall jump, but an experienced player will. I’ve mastered and own more mercs than a rookie, too. So yes, levels do have relevance. And all I’m asking is to be placed with the experienced players, please.
Case in point: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/18165/level-variety-in-lobbies#latest
I’m also shamed for being level 30+, even when I join random objective servers.
Is there any point that level 70 is playing in that server? No, he just wants to play. I’m sure he would enjoy it more if he played with other higher levels who understand the game. Just like lower levels would enjoy it more if they played with other lower levels who don’t understand the game.
Then you got a reply saying levels don’t mean anything. Well, they do and I just explained why.
Then people go on to say quickmatch =/= matchmaking.
Well WHY? Imagine if that it was matchmaking. Would we see the higher level players grouped together more? Would that have saved countless new players from uninstalling the game?
you want to play with experienced players, go play comp, or minlvl10 servers.
I’m regularly topscoring CSGO casual servers, and im really really mediocre, pretty much know how guns work & can aim, with no knowledge of maps etc.
ETQW players were hilariously bad for over a year after release.
Casual games will have low average skill levels. Nothing to be done about that. However, everymonth the average level will increase. Same is true for any other FPS i know.
Matching people based on levels and putting them into appropriate servers is not easy to do at all.
What is doable though, is balancing people on the server itself. And yes, when there is one exceptionally good player it becomes hard to balance. But this will become less and less of a problem; as its easier for an average newbie to get ‘decent’ than for an exceptionally good player now to get even better.
Again - community rented servers would solve this problem. High-skill-reputation servers would emerge,and let us ‘pros’ gather outside of the general population and to everyone’s advantage.
[quote=“Amerika;86524”]And making an agreement not to shoot each other and then being upset about how the balance system isn’t working is seriously messed up in my opinion
Also, you can still play with them if you’re sorted to their team or switch to their team or them to yours while on server. It’s annoying but it’s possible so claiming you can’t do it is not accurate and not a good way to argue a point[/quote]
You misunderstand me, I’m not complaining about balance. I don’t care about it at all. I just want to be able to play with competent human beings on my team.
It’s not that I wasn’t aware of being able to change teams, it’s just it’s both hard to pull off and quite the hassle to have to do. The first complaints I had with the game (and this was a while ago, now) was that it was too hard to play with your friends. There’s no party join, no grouped matchmaking or anything outside of competitive. I rarely spend any time playing the game unless I’m playing it with friends, this has been true for the 400+ hours I’ve played the game, and making it harder to do that is really, really annoying. I can understand why, but I don’t feel that it’s actually achieved anything. The games are still one-sided and people still complain about the balance. Basically the change just made things worse for me, without achieving the goal it was put in for.
[quote=“Szakalot;86562”]Casual games will have low average skill levels. Nothing to be done about that. However, everymonth the average level will increase. Same is true for any other FPS i know.
[/quote]
Not necessarily the case. I’d expect a steady increase in player xp levels, but yet I don’t see any sign of that. It’s like the high level players are leaving and getting replaced by fresh meat. Otherwise I’d be seeing tons of min-level 10 servers filled, right? Then why are they so barren? Plenty of max level 5 servers populated, though. But player retention is a whole other topic for another thread.
[quote=“Szakalot;86562”]you want to play with experienced players, go play comp, or minlvl10 servers.
[/quote]
I mentioned min level 10’s servers a few posts up. Since they are typically empty, you are forced to start them up.
As you well know, Comp is also a mess. You see it posts about it countless times. On Steam forums, reddit, even here. Yet, people still recommend it?
Guaranteed, I’ll be stuck with low level no-rank players in comp against some team. Then I will make ANOTHER thread about it, and everyone will reply with “You can only play comp games with a team”.
Okay, I’ll play comp as a team. Now I’m part of the problem because I’m facing lower level non-partied players who then complain how matchmaking is ‘balanced’ and rage quit mid-game.
Or, I’d face a hacker in comp. If I make a thread about it, everyone would recommend to steer clear of comp.
“Go play comp” is not the clear cut solution. You are dumping one problem into another.
[quote=“Szakalot;86562”]
I’m regularly topscoring CSGO casual servers, and im really really mediocre, pretty much know how guns work & can aim, with no knowledge of maps etc.[/quote]
CSGO pubs are in a class of their own. There is a CLEAR difference between a csgo pub and a csgo match. But in Dirty Bomb, there is almost no distinction between a 5v5 comp stopwatch and a 6v6 pub stopwatch. That makes pubs just as competitive, just with the added benefit of dropping in and dropping out.
The way this entire game tries to sort and handle it’s players is BROKEN, IMO. Comp needs to be fixed, pub balance needs to be fixed. Playing with friends need to be fixed.
Well, I’m kinda curious, but, where are you from ? In Europe there’s at least 2 well populated min 10 servers from 11am to 2am the next day.
Generally, even though I really dislike the locking in place on obj server method, the update had pretty good effects on how games were balanced on those. I’m pretty sorry to notice it myself, but since people have difficulties to behave themselves, it worked…
On non min level 10 servers, though, the story is different, as I saw the system putting me and my friends (pretty much all above level 20) together repeatedly against teams which have below 12/13.
I totally acknowledge the fact that it counts the last 10 games to place yourself, but in those conditions, it totally failed, and for a reason : Consider a dude who is starting to get a grip on the game, with a level around 12. With good raising skill, he’ll be able to stomp some random pub games, even with his limited knowledge of the game. In the meantime, a vet who went trying some mercs on a min level 10 might receive bad pub placement ranking. Mix both situations together, if the vet joins a normal pub game his placement will be totally off.
Again, I’m totally for letting people playing together. But in my opinion, it’s their very own responsibility to act accordingly to the situation. You’re 4 friends playing on a same server and feel like being the top 4 there. Don’t be a duck, just split the group in each team. I literally don’t see the interest of stomping a server just because you wanna play together. You’ll let the thing get boring for you, and outrageously annoying for the rest of the players. Hence this stupid lock on objective servers now…
[quote=“triteTongs;86550”][quote=“Amerika;86541”]
Your level has no relevance towards your placement on a team. [/quote]
Rocket league displays your XP level. I have no idea if it balances to that, but it’s nice it does.
I’m less likely to be placed in servers where it’s filled with rookies. Sure, my rookies may have won 5 games in a row… but they are still rookies. So when I started out, I was placed with rookies and semi-pros. Now I’m placed with pros and veterans with the occasional semi-pro and rookie. But as soon as I get placed against three rookies or semi-pros, it’s a stomp because I know how to hit air shots and rookies don’t.
SAME with dirty bomb.
I don’t really care how well a level 6 did against other low level players. They still lack the EXPERIENCE high level players have.
One of the reasons I find this game boring is how I keep getting shuffled and stacked into servers and teams with low skilled players, players who are still learning what martydom does, how repairing works, etc. They could have won 10 games in a row, that’s great. But that really doesn’t help when an experienced player joins in. A newbie won’t know how to wall jump, but an experienced player will. I’ve mastered and own more mercs than a rookie, too. So yes, levels do have relevance. And all I’m asking is to be placed with the experienced players, please.
Case in point: http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/18165/level-variety-in-lobbies#latest
I’m also shamed for being level 30+, even when I join random objective servers.
Is there any point that level 70 is playing in that server? No, he just wants to play. I’m sure he would enjoy it more if he played with other higher levels who understand the game. Just like lower levels would enjoy it more if they played with other lower levels who don’t understand the game.
Then you got a reply saying levels don’t mean anything. Well, they do and I just explained why.
Then people go on to say quickmatch =/= matchmaking.
Well WHY? Imagine if that it was matchmaking. Would we see the higher level players grouped together more? Would that have saved countless new players from uninstalling the game?[/quote]
You don’t seem to understand. DB doesn’t sort lobbies or does any balancing at all that includes account leveling. It has no place or meaning in this game at all. It’s a number that might as well simply be an hours played meter. Everyone I know from q3 has thousands upon thousands of hours played and it has zero relevance in regard to how good they actually are as it’s not a measure stick. It’s a representation of time played. And again, this game does not balance based on this. You can claim they do anyway you like but in regards to how the game functions and balances players levels mean nothing.
It’s understandable that people get confused by this which is why I’ve been trying to get account levels shown removed from the game.
A level 5 that won 10 games in a row does not play on the same caliber as a level 40 that won 10 games in a row. That level 5 barely knows the maps, the mercs. He barely knows how to chain wall jump together, let alone know the trick jumps to get behind the enemies. He probably doesn’t even know you can run faster with the knife out.
Experience DOES matter. Surprisingly. After a certain point, it can cap off. Sure. I probably hit my peak around level 20. But it’s not after you exit a max level 5 server.
It’s around rank 15, I bet.
A level 5 that won 10 games in a row does not play on the same caliber as a level 40 that won 10 games in a row. That level 5 barely knows the maps, the mercs. He barely knows how to chain wall jump together, let alone know the trick jumps to get behind the enemies. He probably doesn’t even know you can run faster with the knife out.
Experience DOES matter. Surprisingly. After a certain point, it can cap off. Sure. I probably hit my peak around level 20. But it’s not after you exit a max level 5 server.
It’s around rank 15, I bet.[/quote]
You are really not understanding. The game’s balance system does not care. It takes how well you did in your last 10 matches and then takes what somebody else did in their last 10 matches and uses that for balancing. It does not factor in your account level at all. I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue here. The system doesn’t use your account level for balancing at all so it means nothing in regards to the game. It simply goes off how well you’ve been doing recently.
The system doesn’t care about your current experience level much like it can’t factor in your previous gaming experience. It’s simply using the numbers of what you’ve done recently and tries to balance it the best it can. If it puts you against somebody who then does better than you then you’ll be moved down slightly and factored into balancing on the next map regardless of what level they are. You could be valued higher at level 15 than a level 70 player who hasn’t done as well as you.
