Playing with friends - The struggle.

(MarsRover) #41

[quote=“triteTongs;86057”]
Yeah but objective mode is not casual randomness. That’s what i’m trying to get at. If you are a high level, you are expected to carry the team now. It’s actually easier to be a high level casual in stopwatch.[/quote]
Balance isn’t done by level. It’s done by performance in 10 previous matches. So if you’re high level and play for lolz or just learning a new merc your rating will reflect that.

Please explain them. If you’re gonna borrow from other games keep in mind how DB playerbase compares to them.

(triteTongs) #42

Please explain them. If you’re gonna borrow from other games keep in mind how DB playerbase compares to them.[/quote]

I have explained in some past threads I created, but they were downvoted so I guess my opinion on the matter is not very popular.

But let me try once more.

Quickmatch should be revamped with real matchmaking.
Server browsers should possibly go (So the system can balance with the entire player pool).
Add a matchmaking party system. (2 players can join 6v6, 7v7, 8v8. 3 players can join 7v7, 8v8s. 4 players can join 8v8s.)
Party system pairs you with other parties.
The game balances teams by switching entire parties over.
Every new objective game, the system tries to switch you to the opposite team (So you have equal share of attacking and defending).
Quickmatch actively looks to fill in rage-quitters with players or parties that could rebalance that server and team.

This system should have been in place at the start of open beta. Something as serious as player balance and player matchmaking should have been managing the playerbase from day 1. Instead they opted for a server browser in a game that lets you be 1/6th of your team. Now it’s biting them. We don’t know how many people quit the game due to imbalance, but you can surely bet that random solos and random parties randomly selecting servers in the browser didn’t help with the balance issue.

Now we have a solution that completely locks off an entire mode from playing with friends. That’s pretty band-aid way of going about it, but they don’t have that many choices now with the current playerbase.

(Lumi) #43

WTF? LOL, DOTA etc also have limits to how many people can play. Wanna play with more there, you’re screwed too. The current format addresses many types of people. If you want to play with 6 to 7 of your friends in the same team, casually, then you’re even more so part of the unbalancing problem. Just leave this game if you don’t like the current possibilities and good riddance, because you’re definitely not helping the entire gaming community to enjoy the game but only care about your pleasure, even if it ruins other people’s game.

(triteTongs) #44

[quote=“Lumi;86190”]
WTF? LOL, DOTA etc also have limits to how many people can play. Wanna play with more there, you’re screwed too. The current format addresses many types of people. If you want to play with 6 to 7 of your friends in the same team, casually, then you’re even more so part of the unbalancing problem. Just leave this game if you don’t like the current possibilities and good riddance, because you’re definitely not helping the entire gaming community to enjoy the game but only care about your pleasure, even if it ruins other people’s game.[/quote]

So your saying DOTA is bad because it’s locked to a standard 5v5 format for balance?

Gotcha.

No one is talking about playing with 6 or 7 friends, I don’t know what you are seriously on about. You clearly didn’t read my post above.

(Jurmabones) #45

[quote=“Sussepus;85700”]on 7v7 and 8v8 it wouldnt hurt if you could team up with a friend. that would hardly be any kind of pup stomping, would it?
[/quote]

Gotta make it so nobody can play with their friends, just to eliminate the possibility that some scrub whiner might lose a game because the enemy team might have people who might know each other.

(Szakalot) #46

Please explain them. If you’re gonna borrow from other games keep in mind how DB playerbase compares to them.[/quote]

I have explained in some past threads I created, but they were downvoted so I guess my opinion on the matter is not very popular.

But let me try once more.

Quickmatch should be revamped with real matchmaking.
Server browsers should possibly go (So the system can balance with the entire player pool).
Add a matchmaking party system. (2 players can join 6v6, 7v7, 8v8. 3 players can join 7v7, 8v8s. 4 players can join 8v8s.)
Party system pairs you with other parties.
The game balances teams by switching entire parties over.
Every new objective game, the system tries to switch you to the opposite team (So you have equal share of attacking and defending).
Quickmatch actively looks to fill in rage-quitters with players or parties that could rebalance that server and team.

This system should have been in place at the start of open beta. Something as serious as player balance and player matchmaking should have been managing the playerbase from day 1. Instead they opted for a server browser in a game that lets you be 1/6th of your team. Now it’s biting them. We don’t know how many people quit the game due to imbalance, but you can surely bet that random solos and random parties randomly selecting servers in the browser didn’t help with the balance issue.

Now we have a solution that completely locks off an entire mode from playing with friends. That’s pretty band-aid way of going about it, but they don’t have that many choices now with the current playerbase.

[/quote]

system you describe sounds pretty good, but also impossible to make

(Merci1ess) #47

[quote=“Jurmabones;86220”][quote=“Sussepus;85700”]on 7v7 and 8v8 it wouldnt hurt if you could team up with a friend. that would hardly be any kind of pup stomping, would it?
[/quote]

Gotta make it so nobody can play with their friends, just to eliminate the possibility that some scrub whiner might lose a game because the enemy team might have people who might know each other.[/quote]

Then people wonder why this game is going down the drain. Some people will defend the stupidest shit. If Splash Damage was to ever place a piece of shit in the middle of the Chapel map… I’m talking about a straight up piece of shit.

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-08/12/16/enhanced/webdr02/grid-cell-22861-1407875800-5.jpg

You’d have people stand their ground in front of it and defend it with their lives… spewing out bullshit as to why this piece of shit is essential to the balance of the entire game. That if this almighty piece of shit was to be removed, then the game would become unbalanced and fall apart.

People need to stop supporting these stupid changes. First, it was Phantom getting a nerf because people didn’t know how to play. Now people with friends are being punished because others are loners and don’t like those who have friends.

Good shit…

(jonesy) #48

its ridiculous how hard this game makes it to play w/ friends. it was hard before now its impossible on objective mode. dirty bomb is so much more enjoyable when you can play on a team with a buddy. pub stomps/spawn camping still happens in stopwatch it just drags on longer

(B_Montiel) #49

Come on. No. Party system is not a good idea either. System like these in a fps are just pain in the ass. Strictly. It works well on mobas because of the format of the game, as well as matchmaking comp games or short format in fpses, like weapon’s race in cs:go. But, even an objective mode on dirty bomb is already a too long format to ever think about such a narrow system. And it won’t improve the situation, by any means. Stomping stacks will still stomp under those conditions. Players will have to wait incredibly longer than they’re already are. I could give tons of reasons why I hate such systems and why I’ll leave this game as soon as they force us to join some party system to enter a game.

I still don’t understand why they don’t segment more public servers. Min level 10 servers were already a big step forward. But add more options, like FF on servers, would also increase necessary skill neeeded on specific servers, which will automatically reduce skill gaps between players on those.

And again, as long as vets and good level players still don’t have a place to brawl on a daily basis without entering matchmaking, stomp will always be an issue. No server rentals will be the biggest issue, as it solves a ton of problems on its own. Give me and my friend a server, and you’ll have your good level ff on EU pub server filled everyday.

(Jurmabones) #50

[quote=“Merciless;86312”][quote=“Jurmabones;86220”][quote=“Sussepus;85700”]on 7v7 and 8v8 it wouldnt hurt if you could team up with a friend. that would hardly be any kind of pup stomping, would it?
[/quote]

Gotta make it so nobody can play with their friends, just to eliminate the possibility that some scrub whiner might lose a game because the enemy team might have people who might know each other.[/quote]

Then people wonder why this game is going down the drain. Some people will defend the stupidest shit. If Splash Damage was to ever place a piece of shit in the middle of the Chapel map… I’m talking about a straight up piece of shit.

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-08/12/16/enhanced/webdr02/grid-cell-22861-1407875800-5.jpg

You’d have people stand their ground in front of it and defend it with their lives… spewing out bullshit as to why this piece of shit is essential to the balance of the entire game. That if this almighty piece of shit was to be removed, then the game would become unbalanced and fall apart.

People need to stop supporting these stupid changes. First, it was Phantom getting a nerf because people didn’t know how to play. Now people with friends are being punished because others are loners and don’t like those who have friends.

Good shit.[/quote]

No kidding. It’s as if these people acting all fanboy think that MissMurder is going to just give them millions of free elite cases for blindly agreeing with every retarded change SD makes to the game. I have a feeling somewhere down the line they’re going to test that out by actually putting a piece of shit in the middle of every map.

(Szakalot) #51

very perceptive analysis. ‘everybody who disagrees with me is a fanboy and eats shit’

(SnakekillerX) #52

I agree with @triteTongs though, and I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before somewhere, but the Server Browser is highly at fault when it comes to game unbalance.

Lets say match making has fully filled all but one spot on a 12 man server and it just so happens to have grabbed a bunch of people ranging from level 1 to level 7, it is looking for that last player to fill the space when BAM! I join the server using the Server Browser feature because it had a good ping for me. (level 33 or something, i don’t remember)

The games are now hugely unbalanced regardless of what team it sticks me on, as most people are still learning the game at this point. There is no real reason to even have a Server Browser or even a point to allowing people to add those server’s to your Favorites. (Unless they one day plan on opening this up so that people can run their own Dedicated Servers.)

I’m guilty of using the Server Browser however as I like to skip the time it takes to get Match Made… I can join a server much faster from the Browser. I at times also get stuck playing in a server in EU with a bad ping because of MM… which has really turned me off from using it.

They should allow for a casual party system, remove the server browser then balance off of that. People in parties should be match made against people of slightly higher skill than themselves to account for the fact that you are in a party (might take a couple of tweaks to find a happy medium) and are therefor excepted to be communicating with your team, where solo queues may or may not be.

(Merci1ess) #53

Not every one. There’s just a certain amount of people on here that claim to have an opinion and yet the only opinion they have is whatever Splash Damage likes or doesn’t like.

I mean the way you summed up his post sounds just as good as if I summed up this patch.

‘If I can’t have friends… No one can!’

And the people supporting this thinking only about themselves because THEY don’t have friends are kinda selfish pricks tbh. I mean what do you have to say about me having a friend I play with when you don’t? Believe it or not I had someone tell me “You’ll have better communication… others won’t.”. Someone actually said that to me. Do you see how fucking retarded that sounds???

(Szakalot) #54

[quote=“SnakekillerX;86438”]I agree with @triteTongs though, and I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before somewhere, but the Server Browser is highly at fault when it comes to game unbalance.

Lets say match making has fully filled all but one spot on a 12 man server and it just so happens to have grabbed a bunch of people ranging from level 1 to level 7, it is looking for that last player to fill the space when BAM! I join the server using the Server Browser feature because it had a good ping for me. (level 33 or something, i don’t remember)

The games are now hugely unbalanced regardless of what team it sticks me on, as most people are still learning the game at this point. There is no real reason to even have a Server Browser or even a point to allowing people to add those server’s to your Favorites. (Unless they one day plan on opening this up so that people can run their own Dedicated Servers.)

I’m guilty of using the Server Browser however as I like to skip the time it takes to get Match Made… I can join a server much faster from the Browser. I at times also get stuck playing in a server in EU with a bad ping because of MM… which has really turned me off from using it.

They should allow for a casual party system, remove the server browser then balance off of that. People in parties should be match made against people of slightly higher skill than themselves to account for the fact that you are in a party (might take a couple of tweaks to find a happy medium) and are therefor excepted to be communicating with your team, where solo queues may or may not be.[/quote]

thats not how balancing works.

It used to be the case that balancing shuffled people around at start of lobby. This obviously didn’t work, because people joined/left mid-lobby and all balancing was gone.

At the moment balancing is done at the end of lobby. It does not have anything to do with quickplay/serverbrowser: simply all players in lobby at the time will be shuffled according to their skill rating.

It works a LOT better than previous system but is still vulnerable to people joining/leaving mid-game. Its not perfect but its better than what we had.

And its really nota bout people wanting to deny you playing with friends. Its just about recognizing that balanced games are more important!

(watsyurdeal) #55

[quote=“Szakalot;86475”]
And its really nota bout people wanting to deny you playing with friends. Its just about recognizing that balanced games are more important![/quote]

Ok, just for clarity

YES, balanced games are important, but the execution of how they did it was terrible.

The least they could do is instead of having these min and max level servers, just have these 3 types.

  1. Max Level 10
  2. Parties allowed
  3. No parties

This offers a proving grounds for new players, parties can go play together, and those who want to solo que can go play somewhere as well and just simply not deal with them.

But even then, I am willing to bet on even a solo que server, a high level player with a mic, and maybe a few others, will always be the carry to victory. There’s no getting around that.

(MarsRover) #56

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;86486”]
The least they could do is instead of having these min and max level servers, just have these 3 types.

  1. Max Level 10
  2. Parties allowed
  3. No parties[/quote]
    But they did something very similar. Just replace 2 and 3 with Stopwatch and Objective. :slight_smile:
(watsyurdeal) #57

[quote=“MarsRover;86489”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;86486”]
The least they could do is instead of having these min and max level servers, just have these 3 types.

  1. Max Level 10
  2. Parties allowed
  3. No parties[/quote]
    But they did something very similar. Just replace 2 and 3 with Stopwatch and Objective. :slight_smile:
    [/quote]

You missed my entire point

Not everyone wants to play Stopwatch, and they shouldn’t have to just to play with friends who just started playing.

(Szakalot) #58

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;86491”][quote=“MarsRover;86489”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;86486”]
The least they could do is instead of having these min and max level servers, just have these 3 types.

  1. Max Level 10
  2. Parties allowed
  3. No parties[/quote]
    But they did something very similar. Just replace 2 and 3 with Stopwatch and Objective. :slight_smile:
    [/quote]

You missed my entire point

Not everyone wants to play Stopwatch, and they shouldn’t have to just to play with friends who just started playing.[/quote]

nobody disagrees, and im pretty sure SD will be reworking the lobbies for a while still.

In the meantime, I’ll take balanced games over choosing sides/making sure I’m on the same side as me buddies.

(Amerika) #59

This is a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. It’s hard to have solid balance without the ability to properly sort everyone, regardless of friendship and desire to play on the same team. So if you go with friends getting to play on the same team you will most likely end up with unbalanced pubs where 1-2 people that wouldn’t have been put on the same team now suddenly are and you go from what could have been a close match to a spawn camp.

There are a few potential solutions that might appease most people but I have no clue what SD is going to go with or when it will happen.

(Fiktio) #60

Interesting.

I understand very well why people don’t like the change.
Personally I don’t care am I at opponent team or at the same team, for me it’s still fun to play with friend in the same server: no matter am I in the same team or at opponent team.
Still it can’t be a surprise that playing with friends is often more enjoyable than playing against them.

Previously people were complaining about matchmaking and balance. The result is that now objective matches are preventing friends to join in the same team and it makes balance at some point.
It’s logical that two high levels - me and my friend - are often playing in opponent teams just for sake of balance. Previously often we had a brilliant change fill one team full of friends without having a single random in the team, meanwhile opponent team consisted of random players. Were matches balanced? No. That’s why we often balanced matches by ourselves and we changed teams if needed.

So I kinda understand the balancing move in this update, but I still have to question was this the most clever way to balance matches? Could there be another way to cause some balance without making it harder to play with friends in normal public objective matches?