Pixels Opinion On The Whole Loadout Card / Monetisation "Stuff"

(tangoliber) #61

While I have not yet earned any cards above Bronze, I suppose there could be an option to turn duplicate Gold cards into X number of cards of a lower level.

(DB Genome editor) #62

Zenity’s loadouts compilation so far demonstrate that for any given loadout, a loadout with the exact same weapons and augments plus one more augment or a fancier skin exists at the next higher level (except for Gold of course). So even without going into crafting, we could have a more elaborate trade-up system that could reduce some of the random aspect of the current one which seems to be the source of most of the frustration around it.

My suggestion would be to have different levels of trade-up:

  • [li]Trade-Upish:
    [/li][LIST]
    [li]Cheaper than current scheme (less cards required and/or lower credit fee)
    [/li][li]You don’t get to pick the merc, you get a totally random loadout card of the next level
    [/li]
    (This level obviously would do nothing to reduce the random aspect, but would provide a cheaper way to get higher level loadouts for further trade-ups later)

[li]Trade-Up:
[/li][ul]
[li]What we have right now, you only get tot pick the merc for which the new higher level loadout will be for
[/li][/ul]

[li]Trade-Upper:
[/li][ul]
[li]More expensive than current scheme (more cards required and/or higher credit fee)
[/li][li]You get to pick a specific card to upgrade amongst those you offer in trade and you automatically get the next level version of this loadout (zero RNG involved)
[/li][/ul]

[li]Trade-Uppest:
[/li][ul]
[li]Even more expensive than the Trade-Upper
[/li][li]You get to pick any loadout card of the next higher level
[/li][/ul]

[/LIST]

Similarly, there could be a multi-tiered trade-down system for Gold cards:

[ul]
[li]Trade-Down:
[/li][LIST]
[li]Sacrifice one Gold card for two completely random Silver cards (any merc, any loadout) or one random Silver loadout for the same merc
[/li]
(I’m going with only 2 Silver since getting 3 would mean you can repeat the Trade-Up / Trade-Down as often as you want losing only the credit fees)[/ul]
[li]Trade-Downer:
[/li][ul]
[li]Sacrifice one Gold card for a specifc Bronze loadout for the same merc
[/li]
(This basically means that once you’ve reached Gold for a given merc, you’re guaranteed availability of your favorite loadout for that merc, and combined with the Trade-Upper above, once you’ve nailed that favorite loadout it’s just a question of time before you can also get that fancy Gold skin if you so desire)[/ul]
[/LIST]

TL;DR: There could be more levels of trade-up / trade-down, each with more or less randomness at an appropriate cost

(LiNkzr) #63

I like the idea of crafting system to get more specific load outs, maybe even allow to market them through steam? both steam and the game gets a cut right? I don’t mind selling some extra loadouts I have for people with reasonable prize you know.

The new system helped getting loadouts I totally agree, but I hate how some perks are way more powerful than they need to be, I kinda understand you wanted them to affect the game and be noticable, I can’t be the only one thinking they buff too much already strong mercenaries.

(BioSnark) #64

I am also deeply troubled that monetization went live with the loadout/customization system in the state it’s in. As I see it, balance (or p2w-lite?), cosmetics, player agency, RNG, and that I just don’t see anything I’d want to spend money on, are all marks against the system as it stands, currently. I’ll forgo adding another idea to those listed here, and in various other threads.

(Runeforce) #65

Like the thread title, you have missed an important point:

There are currently no connections between the loadout card system and real money, as you can only buy the mercs, not in-game credits. You actually have to play the game for the cards and credits. You can either buy the mercs for real money or in-game earned credits.

So far (!) it seems like a fair and ideal monetization model: you can pay for the mercs and skins, if you do not feel like grinding, but weapons and augments has to be unlocked through gameplay. Looks very anti-p2w to me.

(BioSnark) #66

The thing on steam includes credits. I hope SD are willing to annoy people who get that when they consider how to make the system better. Off topic but I’m also concerned that SD’ll be reluctant to make significant changes to merc balance with the current or new/re-added classes with monetization live. P2W wasn’t among my main concerns with loadouts. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.

How do you pay for skins if they are part of the loadout system?

(Runeforce) #67

IDK. So far it’s only the Beta Fighter and Founder. It would seem the skin is tied to an obsidian loadout card, which in terms of gameplay mirrors a card in the top tier. But top tiers are unlocked quickly enough through gameplay, it hardly makes any sense for you to actually pay, except for the skin.

(BioSnark) #68

I don’t want to buy a skin that’s tied to a gun I hate and buffs that aren’t good. I don’t want to play a game where I can buy a skin that’s tied to a superior loadout. Both those are negatives in the current system.

(BomBaKlaK) #69

I just hate this system actually … really to random even with the trading system.

I open maybe 40 cases or more and not even a bronze card drop … Only **** iron cards or less to trade …
And last but not least I trade all my card for a ****load of coins and what I get is the exact same merc as the founder card I got for sawbonez, and when you have a useless gold card ? What are you doing with ? … Seriously … card system make me mad !

(Runeforce) #70

[QUOTE=BioSnark;523817]I don’t want to buy a skin that’s tied to a gun […] and buffs[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure this is how it will be handled, at least on the short term. [QUOTE=BioSnark;523817]I don’t want to play a game where I can buy a skin that’s tied to a superior loadout.[/QUOTE] Neither will I. I am confident that this will never happen. (Unless the project goes bust and those greedy Nexon execs gets their hands on it :slight_smile: )

(DB Genome editor) #71

Today I had the incredible luck of getting a Gold loadout from a case! But of course the weapons and augments are exact duplicates of those on my Skyhammer Founder’s card, so it is of absolutely no use to me (given the options, I’ll take the Founder’s skin over the blinged-out outfit, thank you very much…).

So, yeah, need some recycling scheme for Gold cards…:frowning:

(kenpokiller) #72

Yes, ditch the lead - Gold. Make it very clear on all websites that they are just skins and then you can release even more!

I’ve played games where they did colours for rarity. It never works out.

Please reconsider this system.

DB has a good reputation so far but this may tarnish it simply because of how it’s setup and how it looks like from new player perspective. I truely think you will gain a lot of respect and influx of players if you make a stance on it or alter it a bit.
The forcing into defaults for competitive play is something I foresee also. :stuck_out_tongue:

Go Half life style and release mods for DB which we would pay for
Rent servers out?
Do it unreal engine/DOTA/CSGO style and let community make graphical/maps through a medium of your choice which will be able to be sold on marketplace and you get x percentage of that?

As much as I dislike such system being able to freely choose your loadout augments and weapons (by unlocking them) and then if you want to reset that loadout card you pay reset credit costs maybe?
This is essentially charging a player for gameplay though, people dislike such models but I say it’s fairgame because it’s only ingame credits. (add too much grind and people hate game)
Initially I ended up with two shotgun and one obsidian loadout with burst rifle, none of which suited my preferences in shooters.

#73

If 1 silver card is worth 3 bronze.

Why are you taking both my 3 bronze AND 1000 coins for the transaction?

(PixelTwitch) #74

The fees are dude to overall poor system design…

Normally a game would have multiple revenue streams allowing the developers to keep peoples credit earning in check.
However due to DB seemingly relying on ONLY Cases and Mercs the worry is without all these additional charges, when a new Merc comes out, everyone would be able to buy them right there on the spot without making the prices so ridiculously high that it puts off many players. Other games manage to entice people into spending in-game credits on cosmetics, attachments, weapons and classes with many more things along the way. Games with a rental system work very well when it comes to constant bleed of credits lol.

So yea, while I agree with you JBRAA, They need to charge for this stuff or charge more for everything else :stuck_out_tongue:

Also don’t think the credits mean you earned anything. The credit earn rate is 80% time based.

(stealth6) #75

There have already been so many good threads with ideas what SD should have done for monetisation. Still they decided to pick this P2W option.

Best suggestion here is that the augments won’t be used in comp / tournaments. Only problem with that is SD have said they want comp and pub to be the same experience.

SD can rebalance drop rates & currency earnt, but as long as you have to pay or get lucky to get the card you need it’s still P2W.

(Glottis-3D) #76

yes. “pay or hope for luck” is clearly pay2win.

#77

Well said.

Btw, any games where this works for the developer?
If so, then SD can just ignore our whine and hope those people play this game?
Or how is SD thinking here?

A good idea is to use “what works”
What works for game A B or C.
Like what works for CS:Go

So what games monetization is SD trying to follow?

Im confident, people will pay 19 euros for the whole game, if it was not P2W.
What works is: People pay 19 euro + whatever they wanna spend on stuff (skins, models, hats, sounds, music, taunts, etc) for the game!

This current P2W is just frustrating, and will probably kill DB once the word is out (once lots more players have played 50+ hours and realise how bad it is)

So Please SD
Use a monetization system that WORKS.

Thank you

I’d hate to see this game be abandoned.
I like DB! <3

(tangoliber) #78

I think those business models can only support development when you have hundreds of thousands of players. I’d love for DB can achieve that, but it seems to me that only Valve games get that on Steam.

(And Half Life was a buy to play game…I don’t think they could have financed the development by selling mods.)

My original wish for DB to only sell characters. Each character would be completely unique with their own guns and abilities, and there would be no customization at all, in order to have more distinct playstyles. Eventually, you would have 30 to 50 characters, and they would cost $10 each or something.

I think that was possibly the original plan.

But creating that many characters was probably too expensive to develop and test. So, it seems we got the loadout cards as a compromise.

Honestly, I’m OK with it. The characters still feel unique enough for me. The way the case drops work, you get a lot of them…and I enjoy opening them, even if they usually aren’t any good. Then I get to open more cases as I trade up for the characters. It doesn’t feel like it takes very long to get a bronze card for each character.

My only worry is with perception. So, perhaps, all cards that don’t currently have 3 augments, should get some kind of boring balancing boost somewhere. Possibly in extra starting ammo, cause that’s the most boring kind of augment of all.

(Protekt1) #79

Okay, so if bronze is as strong as any of the higher tier stuff, I think that is a pretty safe move to avoid p2w. Maybe making this information more readily available/seen in the game would be a smart move to deter people from making wrong conclusions about the system. I was completely unaware of how this worked til I read some in this thread.

(Exedore) #80

Yep, we definitely need to do this!