Pixels Opinion On The Whole Loadout Card / Monetisation "Stuff"


(PixelTwitch) #1

196000 Credits… 1568 Matches… 392 Hours…

Is the potential cost of a single gold loadout card, a loadout card I may or may not like. So to be clear, Splash Damages defence against the idea of “Pay 2 Win” revolves around the idea that the people that pay simply have more chances to be lucky? The design practically strong arms its players that don’t pay into partaking in a system they have absolutely no desire to use and be frustrated by seeing their hard earned credits spew out cards they have absolutely no use for which in turn forces more interaction with the system and additional cost. Having to get your cards up to bronze level to even reach a potentially even playing field. What makes this even worse is the simple fact that we know what the possible augments for each Merc are, meaning we have a pretty good idea of a cards strength that results in a negative vibe because almost every single card has a less than ideal combination. When you start taking into consideration the Mercs that have vastly different weapon options means you could get Aura for example all the way up to gold and end up with a SMG when you wanted a Shotgun and visa versa. Couple this with not being able to select even your cosmetics and you end up with a system that provides huge frustration and very little pleasure.

Even the design on a emotional level is exploitative beyond belief! On first glance the ability to purchase cases using earned credits appears to be a small positive, however it soon becomes apparent that the real reason for this is to ensure that players are tempted into buying them, that ends up leaving them short on credits when a new Merc is launched meaning they are much more likely to spend real money rather then saved credits to get their hands with the new Merc.

When it comes to competitive play, this system effectively guarantees a rule set that will force all players to use the default cards with no augments or weapon variation. This would also mean zero variation on the weapons once the weapon cards become available to the public (Yes guys, “Weapon Cards” are a thing we learned about during the press event). Now, don’t get me wrong, even with a better system this would be a risk but right here and now its not a risk its basically a guarantee. This would force serious competitive players to practice as much as possible with the default cards, not only giving themselves a disadvantage in public but also massively reducing their participation in the monetisation system that is actually worse then it would first appear. These players are trend setters and soon after comp play starts, a divide will appear at the top end of competitive matchmaking between players that do use and those that do not use the system. This will likely result in higher levels of toxicity then you would normally see at higher levels of play.

I would also like to quickly point out that in order to avoid breaking their current view on what is and what is not “Pay 2 Win” the steam marketplace style trading is very unlikely to happen. If it does we end up in a true “Pay 2 Win” situation like that caused by the real money auction house in Diablo 3. All this really baffles my mind because I am trying to imagine if CS:GO decided tomorrow that they was going to add perks to the weapon skins but in return make it so you get a crate every few games, how would that community react? Imagine an AK47 with -33% reload time or +20% RoF, would the ability for everyone to get lucky make this fair?

Now, if all this does not bother you… Think about this…
The current system has absolutely nothing to offer me other then power. I will never choose to rock a card with wicked skins over one that offers me more power. You may as well have gone all out and saved skins exclusively for obsidian cards because the amount of time and effort you seem to be putting into skins is almost completely wasted. Not only does other aspects of design such as, poor texture resolution, tinted players, speed/fov/distance, TTK, no weapon pick up, aggressive use of post processing and incapacitated camera placement mean my ability to see the skins is vastly reduced over other games in the genre but its not like I ever have the ability to pick my skin without effecting my performance in the game. Obsidian cards only just avoid this by having a slightly higher sentimental value due to their limited edition nature and higher fidelity models (in the case of founders cards).

While I don’t know, I think its safe to guess that U-Turns in development are very costly… I still think you need to pull one right about now. I would consider it lucky that the publicity gained from the last event was smaller than I assume everyone expected as changes now could really go unnoticed by the vast majority of people that hopefully in future will be your player base.

In short, after watching as much of the coverage from the events and after the events as possible. I have not seen a single large media outlet show their support for the system but have seen many show major concerns, PC Gamer, Game Trailers and MMORPG.com being a few examples. Not to mention the community that has been voicing these concerns since the loadout cards birth. Yes, we could just be the vocal minority so I would be interested in seeing if anyone has anything they would like to add?

Thanks.


(Exedore) #2

You’re pretty close to the mark here, actually. Well, hopefully not the “wasted” bit! :tongue:

Only going to add that there are some issues with the Case drop rate and the Credit earn rates that have led them to be slightly lower than we want right now.

I’m not trying to discourage debate on this in the slightest; fire away.


(titan) #3

Nice post, the loadout cards just seem like a bad idea
Three things need to happen for them to work

  • Skins separated from cards (Creates more potential revenue for SD when ppl can buy skins + cards surely?)

  • Weapons separated from cards (EVERYONE is and will pick cards based on primary weapon only and it’s absolutely p2w when some weapons are so strong… aura with an smg anyone? Better pray you get lucky or get ready to buy some cases)

  • Return the cards to all having 3 perks each, what we have now is p2w… =(

I have quite alot to say about the cards and why they fail on so many levels but really you just have to play the game, cards are picked solely for their primary weapon, they’re pay to win and having to buy cases to get a primary weapon you want won’t be a fun experience for the end user and only hardcore players might do it when they’re desperate for smg aura or smg proxy etc. Customization should be a fun part of the game and you’ve managed to boil it down to open a crate > choose card with primary weapon you want… it’s so poor
Pls fix


(slanir) #4

Can’t say more than that I agree with most if not all of what pixel wrote. At the moment I don’t find the card system to be rewarding or interesting. It’s only a layer of frustration.


(Mustang) #5

Take home message.

On a side note, if we’re getting weapon cards, why not separate it into augment cards and cosmetic cards as well?

Also trading-up <> crafting!!!


(BAMFana) #6

Good summary in the OP. While I’ve personally witnessed players defending the system in discussions on the servers, I have to attribute this to ignorance. The current system isn’t the worst I can imagine, but it’s pretty horrific none the less. While it may not literally be pay to win (few if any are), it has a significant pay to win element. Everything Pixel says about competitive play is spot on, and his CS:GO example is particularly apt.

What we have, is a system where significant features (mercs and perks) are locked behind a pay/playwall. These locked features provide an advantage either through diversity (having access to practice and play with each merc provides an advantage in competitive play) or through literal by the numbers improvements. While the first is problematic, the second is gamebreaking as far as competitive play is concerned. You simply cannot have a situation where someone can pay money to obtain a Sawbonez card with faster cooldowns, more effective medpacks and higher hp revives, whereas someone else has to grind for hundreds of hours to even have a chance at getting that card. The fact is that while many of the perks are completely useless (tryhard anyone?), a select few are very powerful (hello, explodydendron) and do provide a tangible advantage in gameplay. The only way that is ever acceptable, is if the Investment in time and effort to obtain that advantage is trivial to very low.


(Exedore) #7

Love this specificity, more of this please!

As I posted above, right now the time to the advantage you’re mentioning is quite a bit higher than we intended, and we’re looking at addressing that ASAP.


(montheponies) #8

On principle i detest anything that upsets a level playing field - so for me I’d have progression based unlocks for any element that provide a tangible advantage and restrict purchaseable elements to the likes of costume/gun skins…dare i say it hats.


(ToonBE) #9

I have the same concerns and couldn’t have said it better then Pixel just did.

I already proposed this:

Loadout cards and cosmetic cards. Cosmetic cards are tradeable as in csgo. Loadout cards remain under the trade up system with an extra level that lets you trade 4 golds into 1 fully crafted card.


(Glottis-3D) #10
  1. I think with TRADE CARDS we need to choose 1 out of 2 or 3 cards.

i need a choice, otherwise it is all inraging. i played x hours, and spent y credits for what? some random useless $h1t??

  1. Get rid of ALL Useless augments. leave ingame only those which make a difference.
    lets make a list of useless augments and get rid of them.
    all the choices have to be usefull - but different. augment should bring specialisation to a merc. (more gunner, more objective, more abilities, more survival.)

(Runeforce) #11

You should keep the loadouts after crafting upon them. Say every time you get a lead card you also get a lead dust. You craft an iron card with 3 lead dust, and get the card and one iron dust.


(Ashog) #12

Don’t get what the fuss is all about if you can easily trade 3 silver cards to get a gold card? The numbers in op are thus meaningless.


(Szakalot) #13

This is the core issue. Lets face it: comp play will be without augs anyways. I don’t see how is that so bad, W:ET comp you’d play without xp unlocks, and you can unlock to your heart’s content on pub servers. Most of the augs don’t affect the game too much, except some specific combinations (potent packs & more supplies & getup) (fail safe + higher AOE + faster cooldown). 5v5 MM can have augs, since its semi-pub anyways, and people will play real comp on dedicated servers (dream)

The easiest way to go about reducing the RNG frustration would be to allow to pick a weapon when trading up. I want a silver merc X with weapon Y; give me random augs/skin/whatever. If you go for gold you can also pick a secondary, or the like.


(Erkin31) #14

[QUOTE=Glottis-3D;523299]1. I think with TRADE CARDS we need to choose 1 out of 2 or 3 cards.

i need a choice, otherwise it is all inraging. i played x hours, and spent y credits for what? some random useless $h1t??
[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. With a such random system, I’m not interested to invest money in the game.


(MoonOnAStick) #15

[QUOTE=Szakalot;523311]This is the core issue. Lets face it: comp play will be without augs anyways. I don’t see how is that so bad, W:ET comp you’d play without xp unlocks, and you can unlock to your heart’s content on pub servers. Most of the augs don’t affect the game too much, except some specific combinations (potent packs & more supplies & getup) (fail safe + higher AOE + faster cooldown). 5v5 MM can have augs, since its semi-pub anyways, and people will play real comp on dedicated servers (dream)

The easiest way to go about reducing the RNG frustration would be to allow to pick a weapon when trading up. I want a silver merc X with weapon Y; give me random augs/skin/whatever. If you go for gold you can also pick a secondary, or the like.[/QUOTE]

Agree. Maybe limiting trade-ups to certain weapon classes (e.g. shotgun/smg) could work if there are enough guns.

Is it possible to get the ‘best’ weapon and perk(s) for a given Merc at card tiers lower than gold?
If so, I think the mean time/cost to unlock bronze-or-better cards is a more useful measure than the worst-case time to unlock gold given above.


(tangoliber) #16

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;523318]Agree. Maybe limiting trade-ups to certain weapon classes (e.g. shotgun/smg) could work if there are enough guns.

Is it possible to get the ‘best’ weapon and perk(s) for a given Merc at card tiers lower than gold?
If so, I think the mean time/cost to unlock bronze-or-better cards is a more useful measure than the worst-case time to unlock gold given above.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I’m wondering if there is any difference in effectiveness between a Bronze and a Gold…or are Golds just sidegrades to Bronze.


(Exedore) #17

As of Bronze there are no gameplay changes; everything becomes aesthetics.


(Mustang) #18

Lead->Bronze = Unlocking augment slots
Bronze->Gold = Unlocking skins


(ToonBE) #19

Which is imo pretty dumb… Please consider to split them up into cosmetic and gameplay. Also drop the lead to gold… It is uncreative and boring and is confusing… Gold can be worse than bronze? Wut? Why even comsider trade up? For the skin? No cause you won’t use ot of the load out sucks… You get the point. Give us cosmetic cards amd bring back the uncommon etc… gameplay cards… It is waaay more impressive to get a legendary or artefact nader than some boring silver bronze or gold…


(Exedore) #20

The same Loadout Cards are available at Gold, Silver and Bronze. If you don’t care at all about the rarity, then fair enough.

Feedback on the system is appreciated.