Have people had a chance to try out the updates yesterday to the Credit earn rates and Equipment Case drop rates? As I’ve said elsewhere, due to some issues it was way harsher than we’d intended on the opening weekend.
It’s not going to happen immediately, but a review and re-balancing of the Augments is definitely going to happen in the short term.
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;523414]Well this is from the pov of what I think would be benefiting every type of player. The important game play elements being the weapon/perk sets and the cosmetics being the skins and whatever. If I can immediately have more control over combining my preferred perks and weapon into even a low tier skin card then I’ll have no reason to consider the game p2w. At that point I’ll be less distracted by the trivialities of the system and be more comfortable spending money towards getting skins. Skins can be permanent once applied to a card for all I care.
My ideal system would be like this…
-1k base card builder fee
-Weapon set loot drop (rare chance of pre-skinned)
-Perk set loot drop
-Merc outfit loot drop (rare)
-Weapon skin loot drop (rare)
When I collect all the pieces I can craft them into a card, which can then be upgraded in both merc/weapon skins and other cosmetics. The more cosmetic options that become available, the more players will be able to continually deck out their favored cards. Making this a permanent process would maintain the need for collecting multiple cards, player trading, and a growing eco without impeding on what people would view as game relative content. Varying the tiers of crates based on drop chance would also be a good feature, but the more micro-transaction options available the larger the consumer base. Overall point is that the flaws in the current system will be its own demise.[/QUOTE]
I like this idea. Being able to hand craft your own card from drops like crates, daily quest and logins, micro-transactions etc. You have something to work towards, paid and free ways to build your cards, and something that doesn’t make you feel like you just wasted your time because the bronze card you got from a crate is useless, you already one 2 of them, or not really a merc you play.
You also get people to spend a dollar here a dollar there if they know they can buy a small piece of desired card. Or just say hell with it, here is 8$ bucks to get my ideal card for this new merc etc.
[QUOTE=Exedore;523493]Have people had a chance to try out the updates yesterday to the Credit earn rates and Equipment Case drop rates? As I’ve said elsewhere, due to some issues it was way harsher than we’d intended on the opening weekend.
It’s not going to happen immediately, but a review and re-balancing of the Augments is definitely going to happen in the short term.[/QUOTE]
Definitely earn more credits each match on average now, haven’t played enough to notice a difference with regards to crates. The time to earn is still far off when it comes to acceptable levels for competitive play, though. You’ve increased it 30 % from what I’ve read, but 300 % would be more realistic if we’re talking about acceptable numbers for competitive play. This could potentially be a non-issue, depending on how you implement drafting (ie. if mercs/cards on the players’ accounts have no effect in the draft mode, then time to earn doesn’t matter for competitive play).
[QUOTE=BAMFana;523448]Good to hear. Some specificity regarding the different augs I’m aware of at the moment below.
Very useful augs:
Useful augs:
Filler augs (ie. not useful in competitive play):
To follow up on this: I previously assumed all combinations of weapons/perks were possible, but it seems now that there are a set amount of different loadouts with certain combinations of weapons/perks. For example, explodydendron seems to only be featured on Fragger cards with the m4a1. If that’s true, it drastically reduces the usefulness of the perk. While explodydendron is amazing for nades, I’m not sure if it’s worth the tradeoff – switching the k-121 with the inferior m4a1.
What about some system where you can destroy a card creating a token for one of the perks (you decide) that was on it to be used for crafting.
It feels like too much time and effort has been put into this for it be turned around - hope I’m proved wrong as I think the base game (maps aside) has the potential to be real winner.
So, I’ve spent the last few days assembling a list of all the loadouts in the game, and during the process my opinion has shifted from “this system is problematic” to “this system is brilliant”.
Frankly, I think it’s more of problem with perception, and that’s still a problem.
Let’s look at the facts so far:
There are only three possible Lead loadouts for each character, one for each primary weapon. This means that getting the primary weapon of your choice is SUPER easy, and that’s arguably the most important differentiator.
Iron adds at least a couple of loadout variations and finally Bronze adds at least another three loadout variations, for a total of at least 8 on the Bronze and higher level. Every Lead has an Iron variation which is the same + one perk, and every Iron has a Bronze variation which is the same + 1 perk.
After about a week of playing the game, I already have a couple Bronze loadouts for each of my two main mercs, a couple of Silvers, and a Gold. Of course that’s with buying the merc pack, but that should be fair enough (from a competitive viewpoint). There are of course still loadouts I am looking forward to trying, and that’s a good thing IMO. It keeps me really interested in equipment drops, even if I know that 90% of them are Leads. With the low number of Leads, I also know that I will get tons of duplicates which I can trade up.
I can earn at least about three crates a day easily, that means every three days tops I can craft a Bronze for my favourite merc if I want to. So in less than three weeks you are all but guaranteed to get any top loadout you want for the merc of your choosing, and that’s assuming you are dropping nothing but Leads. That really shouldn’t be a big deal for any competitive player, even if we assumed that getting the right Bronze will be absolutely essential to compete (which is more than unlikely). Not to mention that a top player will play a whole lot more each day and earn more crates, so make it a week or so.
I like that Silvers and Golds are elusive and I will probably never have a full set of Golds in my life. Considering that they are cosmetic only, that’s cool.
So, everything considered, I really do think the system is well designed. For me it hits the right balance between making me excited about collecting further loadouts, while keeping things accessible and balanced for competitive play.
IMO, the biggest problem with the perception of it is caused by the metals theme. I understand that you want to be unique and thematic, but I really think it lacks punch and gives the wrong message. Think about how you would feel if we just changed the names and colours around a bit, e.g. to something like this:
Lead = Common (Orange?)
A warm colour, and communicates that you will get a lot of these. Doesn’t feel quite as trashy as the murky Lead colouring (isn’t that poisonous too?! Why you give me poison). Leads are actually not trash, they are perfectly usable and provide you with the all important weapon choice.
Iron = Rare (Blue?)
Properly communicates that these indeed drop rarely, and are a pretty nice find (which “Iron” does not communicate at all). Some of these loadouts are going to be essentially identical to top loadouts (as in the ones that top players favour from the Bronze tier), minus one perk which is rarely a significant difference.
Bronze = Epic (Green?)
Properly communicates that this is a top tier card which drops quite rarely, and gets you sufficiently excited about it. While “Bronze” feels like a consolidation price. It’s the lowest rated medal on the podium after all.
Silver = Silver Epic (Green with sparkling silver borders)
This makes it clear that a Silver Epic is actually identical to other Epics, only with cosmetic differences. The animated sparkling border is another way to make it feel special (or maybe leave the animation for Gold).
Gold = Golden Epic (Green with sparkling gold borders)
Same as silver, just with more awesome.
All of this would also communicate that getting the top tier cards (e.g. through trade ups) is actually not that hard. Whereas right now you look at it, see how ridiculously hard it is to get a Gold, and you think “P2W!” or “LOTTO2WIN!”
Bottom line, I really like the system you created, but please consider changing the theming. I don’t think it’s working to its advantage right now.
While I understand your angle here, there is one thing that you (and likely many others) believe that contrasts heavily with the guys on the other side of the fence… The value of a augment…
Also, your facts are a little off at the moment. Some loadout combinations are only available at Silver or Gold and its not just one set of cards per weapon. There are a lot more combinations then you seem to realise. The other thing worth pointing out is that you are a collector, where a lot of us here are not. To me there will always be one or maybe two cards per Merc that I would like and the rest are as close to worthless to me as you could imagine. That feeling of worthlessness really puts a downer on the whole system and while you are saying the rate you get these things is ok, bare in mind that in 6 months time there will be 20+ Mercs in the game the amount of possible cards increases hugely. Once that happens the chance of getting anything you like out of a case is minimal and the true scale of the trade ups will become apparent.
I would like to quickly agree that the time to get a bronze is not to bad by any means. The problem with this is that I already have pretty much the best loadout per Merc and now I don’t even bother with the trade up system or anything. There is little to be excited about.
Thanks for the post.
This.
Good post Zenity, but Pixel nailed it. You find one loadout that you like (fav weapon, good supporting augs) and there really is no reason to consider anything else.
In what way? Are you saying augments are more important than I think or less? I think right now they are sitting at a place where most don’t make a great deal of difference. Some are significant enough to matter, but not enough to really stress me out if I have to play without it for a few weeks. Playing competitively at a top level takes a lot longer than that anyway (unless you have been playing throughout the beta already, which is a special situation new players won’t have to deal with).
Also, your facts are a little off at the moment. Some loadout combinations are only available at Silver or Gold and its not just one set of cards per weapon. There are a lot more combinations then you seem to realise.
Have you checked the thread I linked? I know there are more sets at higher rarities, I think I pointed that out. It’s only at the Lead level that there is only one loadout per weapon. I guess it’s possible that not all loadouts are available at Bronze level after all. The most that I have been able to account for so far has been 6 (with a total of at least 8 top level loadouts). But if you have any concrete information about this, please help me make the list more accurate. 
The other thing worth pointing out is that you are a collector, where a lot of us here are not. To me there will always be one or maybe two cards per Merc that I would like and the rest are as close to worthless to me as you could imagine. That feeling of worthlessness really puts a downer on the whole system and while you are saying the rate you get these things is ok, bare in mind that in 6 months time there will be 20+ Mercs in the game the amount of possible cards increases hugely. Once that happens the chance of getting anything you like out of a case is minimal and the true scale of the trade ups will become apparent.
I would like to quickly agree that the time to get a bronze is not to bad by any means. The problem with this is that I already have pretty much the best loadout per Merc and now I don’t even bother with the trade up system or anything. There is little to be excited about.
I’m not really a collector, but I can’t deny that the collecting aspect has some appeal to me, at least as long as it doesn’t get in the way of anything else. I mean, it’s just something extra.
When more mercs are released the chance to drop the exact card you want will be lower of course, but the trade up system will still be just as effective in giving you cards for the specific merc you want.
You are giving me somewhat mixed messages now though. Is your problem that it’s too hard to get the loadouts you need for competitive play, or that it’s too easy? It sounds like it’s a bit of both?
I am also a huge fan of the Valve model with regards to collectibles, in fact I would say it’s just about perfect. I still don’t think that the approach Splash Damage has chosen (which seems like a mix of LOL and Hearthstone, which both work well for both casual and competitive players) is bad at all. Of course they will have to monitor player reactions cautiously. I am just one voice who actually likes the system as is, although I wish it would be presented in a more attractive and less misleading way.
[QUOTE=Szakalot;523690]This.
Good post Zenity, but Pixel nailed it. You find one loadout that you like (fav weapon, good supporting augs) and there really is no reason to consider anything else.[/QUOTE]
That’s true, but what’s wrong with that? And you never know when you might want to try something else, or something gets buffed that makes another loadout worthwhile, etc. I think it’s exactly the fact that you can collect, but there is no real need to do so, which makes the system so effective.
When you mention the mixed messages I give, that’s deliberate because thats how I feel.
The reason for this is because I really don’t think the system has any depth to it. I feel like its something I am forced to use but gives me very little back in return. When it comes to competitive, the problem I have is that it COULD take 1 day to get the cards you want or 1 month based almost completely on luck, unless you want blow real money on the required crates.
When it comes to the strength of augments I agree that many of them are pretty weak… However, even when weak, when you are talking about a group of players at a very equal skill level, that 30% reload speed, that extra clip and that extra explosion range really make the difference!
Now, I am not saying that the system does not work… simply, it does…
I am just saying that just because something works does not mean its the best way of doing it…
I have seen people with default loadouts winning people with 3 perks and arguably better weapons.
that said I agree that loadout perks are a bit borderline pay to win since there are perks that completely breaks classes in competitive. I would actually like the perks disabled in competitive.
All Loadout Card configurations are available at Bronze level, save Obsidians.
just keep things that changes mercenaries for better out of competitive game and it’s all fine. (25% more AoE? Healing rate?) you know. (No perks in competitive!)
I think its fine in the comp MM. Tourneys will make their own rules; and many of them will have no aug rulesets. However to support it, we either need in-game server-sided mechanic that disables augs across the board, or the possibility to choose from the other 2 weapons with no augs
You could go with a Lead-only rule, which would allow complete weapon choice and shouldn’t be a problem for anybody. I don’t think that should even be necessary though.
Like I said, personally I think the system is good, but if I could make three wishes, they would be this:
Make the cards more attractive as I described in my previous post, especially communicating that Bronze is the top tier level and Silver/Gold are for eye candy (Obsidian too, they only seem to differ with their secondary or melee weapon at most).
Add more pizzas to make cosmetic loadouts more desirable. Like Pixel said, the custom skins are pretty impossible to admire during the game… Perhaps more drastic skin variations would help, but personally I’d be more into noticeably unique weapon skins. You could do other things as well, like custom voices perhaps.
Add a crafting system like Hearthstone (it could replace the trade up system). This means you can destroy any card to create material, and then use this material to craft a card of your choosing. The rates would have to be lower than the current trade up. This would ensure that competitive players know exactly what’s the maximum time required to craft a Bronze of your choosing (so they can’t run into completely rotten luck like Pixel is worried about) and it will also allow long-term competitive players to save up material, so they can instantly craft specific Bronzes if they need to due to a change in the meta or game balance.
With these three changes I really don’t think there would be much reason left to complain about the system, so I don’t think it needs to be thrown out and replaced. I like the system in general and would like to see it refined instead.
What can we do with gold cards we don’t like it? There are not tradeable… Why not feature to trade them for 3 sirver cars?
Yeah that’s a pet peeve of mine (what if we get a duplicate?) A crafting system would solve this elegantly as well.