Phantom poll with unbiased options

(GregHouseMD) #81

I’ve gotten a few hours in now, and my experience has been considerably less frustrating than what the forums seem to indicate. Usually there’s a Phantom or two, but I’ve had games without them. I can imagine it’ll be frustrating when he goes on rotation, because I want to play DB and not Crysis, but that’s quite often the case - and far less of an issue on high-level servers.

Phantom does need a bit of tweaking, though. I think a lot of that comes from the fact he’s a bit bipolar in his roles; on the one hand he’s stealthy and deadly up close, but then he also has armor and a damn solid SMG. It’s quite different from other games, where infiltrator-types tend to be dangerous, but quite soft targets.

(jetJester) #82

I’ll just copypaste my old post about phantom:

The only problem with phantom is that it’s so easy to stomp noob with him even if the phantom itself isn’t that good, his overall strenght isn’t the problem , i never recall me dying to a phantom while i was using fragger for example; they should higher the skill cap, like slower the katana swing if it misses or boost speed and reduce cloak absorption.
Right now baddies get stomped by pretty much every skill level phantom and they come like an horde crying on forum.
(yesterday i was in the enemy spawn with phantom, everyone spawn and passes trough me; after i killed a few of those guys the “phantom op” spam in chat started; that’s the people we’re dealing with ^^ )

(loonyTop) #83

[quote=“GRUARRR;42092”][quote=“loonyTop;42012”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;41465”]I’m just gonna leave my opinion here:

I honestly think Phantom is balanced as is. Melee was always a really good way to get kills and Phantom has that as his main purpose since I never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. [/quote]

There you have it. never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. In an objective based game.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, anything that can fatally alter the outcome of a game but require no skill is not a good thing. The best thing about this game is that it plays like the opposite of COD; i.e. you can’t camp, the map develops and it works better when you play as a squad. With Phantom that’s all moot. You see a team with 3 Phantoms and you’ve already lost.
[/quote]

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And what about a team with three Rhinos/Naders?

I played against a team with 3 Vassilis at Chapel and it was tough.
[/quote]

Wow. You saw my comment and deliberately went out to get photos of you on the objective. That’s pretty laughable.
3 Vassilis was tough?! Lol. Only if you play Vassili. A team with 3 rhinos are easily flanked. A team with 3 naders is easily got through with Fletch/Sawbones/Fragger/Proxy if a medic drops a med station it’s even easier. There’s fuck all you can do about someone who just camps, goes invisible and stabs you in the back. It wont stop me playing the game, not short term, anyway. And maybe no one gives a shit if people do stop playing. But I’m the type of person who will happily dump money into a game that I thoroughly enjoy, even if it’s more than buying a regular game outright. I did it with Planetside 2, for example. But I’m not dumping money into something I don’t find particularly enjoyable, I was ready to purchase 2 mercs and some cards for them this weekend, if I don’t know whether I’ll enjoy it I won’t bother. And I’m pretty sure that the devs care about that.

(jetJester) #84

[quote=“loonyTop;42812”][quote=“GRUARRR;42092”][quote=“loonyTop;42012”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;41465”]I’m just gonna leave my opinion here:

I honestly think Phantom is balanced as is. Melee was always a really good way to get kills and Phantom has that as his main purpose since I never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. [/quote]

There you have it. never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. In an objective based game.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, anything that can fatally alter the outcome of a game but require no skill is not a good thing. The best thing about this game is that it plays like the opposite of COD; i.e. you can’t camp, the map develops and it works better when you play as a squad. With Phantom that’s all moot. You see a team with 3 Phantoms and you’ve already lost.
[/quote]

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And what about a team with three Rhinos/Naders?

I played against a team with 3 Vassilis at Chapel and it was tough.
[/quote]

Wow. You saw my comment and deliberately went out to get photos of you on the objective. That’s pretty laughable.
3 Vassilis was tough?! Lol. Only if you play Vassili. A team with 3 rhinos are easily flanked. A team with 3 naders is easily got through with Fletch/Sawbones/Fragger/Proxy if a medic drops a med station it’s even easier. There’s fuck all you can do about someone who just camps, goes invisible and stabs you in the back. It wont stop me playing the game, not short term, anyway. And maybe no one gives a shit if people do stop playing. But I’m the type of person who will happily dump money into a game that I thoroughly enjoy, even if it’s more than buying a regular game outright. I did it with Planetside 2, for example. But I’m not dumping money into something I don’t find particularly enjoyable, I was ready to purchase 2 mercs and some cards for them this weekend, if I don’t know whether I’ll enjoy it I won’t bother. And I’m pretty sure that the devs care about that.[/quote]

if you’re looking for counters fragger does pretty well against him, i play mostly phantom and fragger, fragger only when the enemies are good and i can’t get trough with phantom; and since day 1 yet a single phantom haven’t managed to kill me

(GRUARRR) #85

[quote=“loonyTop;42812”][quote=“GRUARRR;42092”][quote=“loonyTop;42012”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;41465”]I’m just gonna leave my opinion here:

I honestly think Phantom is balanced as is. Melee was always a really good way to get kills and Phantom has that as his main purpose since I never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. [/quote]

There you have it. never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. In an objective based game.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, anything that can fatally alter the outcome of a game but require no skill is not a good thing. The best thing about this game is that it plays like the opposite of COD; i.e. you can’t camp, the map develops and it works better when you play as a squad. With Phantom that’s all moot. You see a team with 3 Phantoms and you’ve already lost.
[/quote]

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And what about a team with three Rhinos/Naders?

I played against a team with 3 Vassilis at Chapel and it was tough.
[/quote]

Wow. You saw my comment and deliberately went out to get photos of you on the objective. That’s pretty laughable.
3 Vassilis was tough?! Lol. Only if you play Vassili. A team with 3 rhinos are easily flanked. A team with 3 naders is easily got through with Fletch/Sawbones/Fragger/Proxy if a medic drops a med station it’s even easier. There’s fuck all you can do about someone who just camps, goes invisible and stabs you in the back. It wont stop me playing the game, not short term, anyway. And maybe no one gives a shit if people do stop playing. But I’m the type of person who will happily dump money into a game that I thoroughly enjoy, even if it’s more than buying a regular game outright. I did it with Planetside 2, for example. But I’m not dumping money into something I don’t find particularly enjoyable, I was ready to purchase 2 mercs and some cards for them this weekend, if I don’t know whether I’ll enjoy it I won’t bother. And I’m pretty sure that the devs care about that.[/quote]
Are you saying that I went out to get photos of myself on the objective just ONLY to exclusively reply to you?

I think that you have said such a big nonsense that I will not discuss it, youre right.

I only turned on the computer and entered the game just only and exclusively to go there to push F12. Then I pushed “K” and “Ctrl+Alt+Supr”, and I posted the photo. Later I launched my pc through the window and I went to the fridge to ate a whole chocolate cake.


PS: Don´t worry. With the Characters Ive bought today I dont think they care about the shopping you havent done.

(refit) #86

[left]Phantom makes Sparks too vulnerable. Sparks does not have the firepower to take out a phantom and her health gun takes to long to charge. [left]

I have been playing Sparks for a while. In the past, I would show up at a defense point or objective and revive a bunch of my team makes and everyone is happy. The hammers throw out amo, the medics build dispensers, the proxies lay mines, the engineers set up their guns. The enemy comes charging into a wall of death. As a sparks, I can keep the continuity of an attack or defense. The other team has to respawn and run back to the objective, while my team has time to build up and charge up.

Now, with phantom, my games go like this: I run up the to objective and revive one team mate, then I get knifed in the back by a phantom. I respawn, then I run to the objective, while my entire team is dead, then I get cut down in a hail of fire. Repeat six times, then I switch to Proxy so I can fight off the Phantoms. It doesn’t matter anyway, because the phantoms run around knifing all our downed teammates. Even if Sparks manages to stay alive long enough, there are no downed teammates to revive. When my team wins, it is still no fun playing Sparks with 0/13 kills.

Nobody will help up a teammate now, because that’s a sure way to get knifed in the back. Nobody wants to play a Rhino, Bushwacker, or Sparks because those classes can’t fight off a Phantom. The games turn into every man/woman for them selves, mostly Proxies and Naders, with a few brave Sky Hammers. Why throw out amo, when nobody stays alive long enough to use up their supply? Why play a support class, when the phantoms run past your turrets, or blow up your dispensers, or just kills you with one slash? Why play a slow class like a Sky Hammer or Rhino? You shoot a Phantom four times and then he still cuts you down.

Seriously, why play Dirty Bomb at all if it’s just going to be Proxies, Naders, and Phantoms? I know, why don’t you just get rid of all the classes and just make it Phantom Death Match. Get rid of the objectives and team work and all that other crap! That is what Dirty Bomb has become in the last week. [/left][/left]

(loonyTop) #87

So not only did you go out deliberately to play the objective for the photos you went out to buy some mercs because I said I probably wont. Yeah, sarcasm, sure it was. Maybe they don’t care. I don’t know. But they also know, unlike you, that I am not going to be alone on holding that opinion. They don’t need to get rid of him, but if you want to throw in a good melee option just make him strong and fast as fuck with permanent jumping ability. He doesn’t need to be cloaked, which affects the whole game while requiring no skill.

(GRUARRR) #88

[quote=“loonyTop;43040”]So not only did you go out deliberately to play the objective for the photos you went out to buy some mercs because I said I probably wont. Yeah, sarcasm, sure it was. Maybe they don’t care. I don’t know. But they also know, unlike you, that I am not going to be alone on holding that opinion. They don’t need to get rid of him, but if you want to throw in a good melee option just make him strong and fast as fuck with permanent jumping ability. He doesn’t need to be cloaked, which affects the whole game while requiring no skill.
[/quote]

I see you do not get it

(modernFountain) #89

GRUARRR voted slightly under powered for phantom… hahahah :smiley: hahhaa if you cant get kills with him… dude just quit game .

(GRUARRR) #90

Hello! Knife to meet you! C´mon continue telling me things. Make my post meter bigger.

And yes. They have to fix the issue of not being able to destroy Aura´s Health Station with the katana as easily as with the knife as Ive said before.

With that mentality if you have voted Ext OP it means you can’t even get to leave the base?

If your logic were true you could not be even worse. You served me that one on a silver platter.

(loonyTop) #91

No, I get it. You were born without a spine or testicles and that everyone should play with the least amount of skill or effort required.

(Temporary) #92

@loonyTop not everyone that plays Phantom is a lone wolf that doesn’t help out the team with primary/secondary obj or reviving. I’m sure you’ve had some bad experiences to back up your opinion but it just isn’t 100% true. Whilst playing as Phantom if I see a downed player or an obj that isn’t being done I jump on that opportunity like a fat kid on a cupcake because exp is exp regardless of where you get it from.

One player does not a trend make but I see plenty of Phantoms contributing to the team in the same way I do, obviously he’s just better @ getting kills (depending on the player) but I’d rather support my team in whatever way I can.

(Ghosthree3) #93

The more I play him the more I notice how completely fucked he gets by good players. Unless you run around expecting to get shot up and play like a normal class you get shredded because of your movement patterns.

(watsyurdeal) #94

Yea, his cloak is easy to see after a while, so it makes him useless against better players.

(LANshark) #95

Its sounds weird but Phantom plays a very similar role as Vassilli as a pick class. Obviously they play very differently as phantom is much more aggressive and vassilli plays pretty safe but they both pick off high priority targets before a fight. Right now phantoms high risk high reward strategy is ruined by his shield, sword, and above average hp. It is good that he forces teams to stay together, you no longer have insane proxy rushes (im sad about that) or auras across the map because they are to afraid to get knifed and they are instead reviving their teammates (Shocking i know).

I expect (and want) tentative nerfs to balance him out, how they do this I don’t care as long as it’s not to his sword as that would ruin his premise. I can see where people claiming he is extremely OP are coming from as he is a beast if piloted well but not everyone can play him well enough to be a beast (me included). Despite peoples reactions, Phantom is pretty closed to balanced as he is. His best weapon requires you to be in the enemies face, he gives tones of audio queues (he hums when invis and says ‘shazam’ when he cloaks), Vassilli’s heartbeat sensor removes his invis, you can always back up if he’s rushing you to give you more time, and explosives as well as headshots (which you should be getting) tear through his shield. Remember that SD also has a ton of characters to add to the game like Redeye (who seems like an direct counter with stopping phantom from seeing and can see phantom).

(loonyTop) #96

[quote=“Temporary;43229”]@loonyTop not everyone that plays Phantom is a lone wolf that doesn’t help out the team with primary/secondary obj or reviving. I’m sure you’ve had some bad experiences to back up your opinion but it just isn’t 100% true. Whilst playing as Phantom if I see a downed player or an obj that isn’t being done I jump on that opportunity like a fat kid on a cupcake because exp is exp regardless of where you get it from.

One player does not a trend make but I see plenty of Phantoms contributing to the team in the same way I do, obviously he’s just better @ getting kills (depending on the player) but I’d rather support my team in whatever way I can.[/quote]

I’m glad there are players like you about. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the majority. And sometimes you get teams who are like that regardless of merc. The problem with Phantom is not with how players like you use him, it’s how lazy ass players use him. With most mercs that isn’t an issue. With Phantom, you can still easily influence the outcome of the game. He changes the complete game dynamic and mostly in a negative way.

(Temporary) #97

You’re welcome :slight_smile:

You could say the same thing about people that play engineers who don’t contribute to building/destroying objectives (pet peeve of mine which happens quite often), it’s just more blatantly apparent with Phantom but in essence the lazy players are just playing for k/d epeen. I despise k/d because it promotes this kind of behavior instead of teamwork.

I’m of the opinion that having him in the game raises the bar for my situational awareness, gives us a truly tactical class and provides more of a challenge, gotta keep that heart rate up :stuck_out_tongue:

(GRUARRR) #98

By your comments Im start thinking youre underage. What Im explaining to you its that people doesnt do things because of you. I do teamplay and its my playstyle and I have made some shopping because I wanted. If you dont believe me its okey.

(ostmustis) #99

He is like a slow fat proxy without mines and isnt an engi instead he is a little tougher and got a reflective sheild veeeeery op. He may be in a little need of some mintor tweaks but havent seen him played enough to say for sure. Its not like he is the most overpowered merc in the game anyway.

Im willing to accept a slight nerf by buffing rhino!

(the 360 melee is bs but thats how all melee strikes are even if he gets more out from it)

(Mister_Jim_E_Rustler) #100

I went slightly OP for this. I don’t normally comment or vote on games but Dirty Bomb is a game I’ve come to love over the last month or so and having wondered aimlessly searching for a new title to play since BF3 died I don’t want to see this game drop off over something so stupid.

To start with I think its been somewhat over hyped however at the same time the Phantom users, for the most part, haven’t given much constructive input into the discussion. The majority seem to love there baby and any suggestion of change results in a barrage of abuse about being terrible at the game.

That said a substantial majority of the Dirty Bomb player base feel that Phantom in its current state detracts, in one way or another, from the core game and I happen to agree with these people.

The fact that the character is fast, has a relatively high HP and can kill most players (baring in mind during a game most people will be down on some HP) in one hit makes this a very powerful class. Adding the cloak and shield to the mix certainly pushes it over the edge. One of the guys I play DB with bought the Phantom after being super excited about it for a few weeks and even he agrees it needs a nerf.

And all this stuff about visual and audio cues is a weak argument in my opinion. DB is a fast paced game and when nades are crashing in around you as you spin 180 to acquire a target whilst talking to you team you don’t often see Phantom. In fact the few times I have spotted him I’ve been fairly static and in those positions, by the time you see him, your a sitting duck.

In my very humble opinion I believe the Armour needs revisiting. The shield effect needs a reduction, the visuals need tweaking whilst running and the cool down should be longer. Having watched a few videos online seeing someone run into a room, get stabby with a few people then hide out of site for a few seconds and charge back in is slightly ridiculous.

That being said there is a major risk of nerfing the Merc into oblivion which would be a big mistake so I would imagine there is plenty of head scratching going on at Splash Damage.

I just hope they don’t put him into free rotation before its sorted out :confused: if they do I think I will be taking some time off from DB to save myself the frustration.