Phantom poll with unbiased options


(Fuze) #61

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;41953”][quote=“Fuze;41950”]

You’re aware that he is cheating to obtain those results, right?[/quote]

Scripting? Not the same as cheating, all he is doing is using a bind that does a constant 360, nothing more.

Bindings=(Name=“LeftAlt”,Command=“Count bXAxis | Axis aMouseX Speed=9999999.0 | OnRelease Axis aMouseX Speed=1.0”,Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False,bIgnoreCtrl=False,bIgnoreShift=False,bIgnoreAlt=False)
[/quote]

Cheat
verb

  1. act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

Exploiting an aspect of the game to obtain an unfair advantage is considered a violation of the ToS. It doesn’t really matter if “everyone can do it”. You might as well defend people who have been glitching into walls on Chapel or grenade jumping on top of buildings in Terminal because technically, “everyone can do it”. Well, guess what? Everyone can also download a third party program to hack the game. Anything that the developers did not intend to be a part of how the game should function is an exploit, plain and simple.


(watsyurdeal) #62

…it’s not cheating, by yor definition, the quick binds for abilities are cheats…


(Glot) #63

i like, how GRUARRR dislikes or disagrees with almost every single post here =)

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
© Oscar Wilde


(Fuze) #64

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;41972”]…it’s not cheating, by yor definition, the quick binds for abilities are cheats…

[/quote]

So you’re telling me that key bindings are unfair advantages when we know for a fact that they are a part of the actual game, seeing as how they are located in the options menu but adding scripts that aren’t part of the base game is somehow fair and if two people met, one with the script and the other without, it’s totally fair and the person who abused the script wouldn’t have an unfair advantage? Bull… Again, ANYTHING that is exploited in a game that the developers did not intend is still a cheat. Or else glitching into walls or jumping into the skyboxes with grenades wouldn’t be punished. Just because the game engine allows for it does not mean the developers intended the game to function in that manner and again, makes it an exploit which is a cheat. If they knew you could do that, they would have made it impossible to do. Or do you honestly think the developers knew people could do what is seen in the video and intended for players to do so? That’s ridiculous and you know it.


(watsyurdeal) #65

Are you really telling me that because he used a script that makes his entire video pretty much null?

Because a script that made him do a constant 360 is totally what gave him the advantage here…

Also, the devs DID know Phantom worked that way, proof

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/45086-Phantom-Feedback?p=533815&viewfull=1#post533815

Yes, we did have a turn-speed-limit implemented when using powerful melee attacks but had to remove it at the last minute due it causing some nasty networking issues.

We’ll be reworking the code on this and it should be coming back soon


(loonyTop) #66

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;41465”]I’m just gonna leave my opinion here:

I honestly think Phantom is balanced as is. Melee was always a really good way to get kills and Phantom has that as his main purpose since I never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. [/quote]

There you have it. never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. In an objective based game.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, anything that can fatally alter the outcome of a game but require no skill is not a good thing. The best thing about this game is that it plays like the opposite of COD; i.e. you can’t camp, the map develops and it works better when you play as a squad. With Phantom that’s all moot. You see a team with 3 Phantoms and you’ve already lost.


(GRUARRR) #67

Well I think he is not as easy to drive at it seems.

Every character has its own behavior. When a new character comes everyone starts complaining.

It´s a game based in diferent characters. Every character has its own personality and its own skills. I have been killed by every character in the game and I have killed every character in the game. When I was dying I was not thinking about “Wow he/she is a demigod of revenge and the game is bad and the Devs dont have any idea and its OP and they have to balance bla bla bla”

I was thinking about “Wow. This game is amazing. They have imagination and are trying new things. The behavior of this character is different. He/she is beating me. I have to examine his behavior in order to understand him/her. Predict him/her and beat him/her”

For example. I thought Nader was to hard to beat. But searching on the net you can find videos that explain his weakness. Usually Nader player starts shooting all her nades. 5. Then she hasnt more. Thats the moment to appear, shoot and kill her. You have to play around that. And playing with Nader you have to play around that too. Reserve grenades.

Today I have killed a Rhino with Sparks and her Empire9. How? Well she has 470 of speed. Just going in circles close to his back and shooting. I got him by surprise and I had luck. He killed me some times in the game. It was hard but it wasnt impossible.

The first games I played yesterday I killed a lot of people with Phantom because everyone was surprised. I bought him and his bronze card 5 minutes after the new fix. (I also bought Bushwacker, but I have an Iron card that makes the job, so I didn´t buy a card for him).

When Ive entered today at the game people was crazy. Wow wow. Op Op. Nerf Nerf.

Also saying things like “pay to win. pay to win. Wow wow”.

Really, I think that People like to talk a lot and people like to criticize a lot.

I have not spend any money yet. Only I have spend the credits of the game that Ive get playing. I will spend real cash later to support the game because I think its a very very very good game. I have not much fun with a game in years. But now Im trying the game. Ive been playing it since a week and a half (more or less 10 days). I have 118 hours of game. I have been loving shooters since Doom (The one from 90s. He was my first shooter and I have played a lot of shooters. Its my favorite type of videogame) People says that you have to “farm”. Hey. Think a little bit. Whats the point of a game that give me everything at the start. Wheres the challenge??? They are giving me free credits to buy more things by free!! And with that credits I have bought Bushwacker and Phantom. I got Fragger with the free code. Where is the paying to win?? This is more like a play, enjoy and win than a p2w. But as ive said. People says a lot of things. Another thing is that they are right.

I think that its the same point with phantom. They are saying the good things that he has. Why anyone is not saying the bad things?? Because they havent played with him. And I think that you have to try things to have a good opinion.

Today people was playing better agaisnt me. They were seeing me. They were hearing me. Today were more players playing with Phantom. I fought agaisnt them. You can see it. You can hear it. Be water my friend. Use your ears. Its easier to hear a sound, because you can “see it” behind/around you and prepare yourself/turn, than seeing somebody behind you. You cant see behind you.

People says that “oh he kills aura/proxy with only one shoot”. Well. Proxy is the character that killed me more today. Why? Because she moves faster than Phantom. And she usually uses a Shotgun. (She killed me also with smg).

Also if you fail with the katana stab you´re a little bit of time without moving. Do you know that it means agaisnt a proxy/aura? I think I dont have to explain it. Also you spend a valuable time changing from katana to smg. And I think that I dont have to explain what it means also.

He is not that fast. And it counts. Well, whats the point with a melee player that cant kill with melee? For those about complaining about the katana.

Of course that I killed people. But they also killed me. Of course he is a strong character! but he has also his weak points.

Vasilli neutralizes your invisibility. And it happens suddenly when you enter in the area of his sensor. Without warning. Then everyone sees you. In the middle with a katana. And everyone haves a smg. Good game!

Bug: Its hard to destroy Aura´s health station with the katana. They have to fix it.

I tried also another strategy. I tried a card without a katana. But I could recharge faster.

Have you tried it? I bet than the reply could be “No”.

When everyone started complaining about the Katana I tried to play with him without the katana. The point was to be invisible and giving support to other players shooting from one side. They could see my friends and they started to shoot them. But as they were distracted, they werent seeing me. And I was going behind the attackers. It worked but I have to admit that I didnt have as fun as using the katana and also I killed less people. But it worked.

I usually use Phantom to kill snipers or to kill “hard characters” making troubles for my team. For example a couple of naders having a nade party agaisnt our ev and killing all my team. Then I got the job of “snipe” them. But physically instead of shooting from long range. It also worked.

Also think that invisivility is his Skill. He doesnt launch aerial strikes. They kill people and evs. He doesnt launch fraggs or nades. They also kill people. His skill has to be good and has to kill people also.

Summing up. I think that time must pass and people has to addapt a little bit. It cant be that only one or two days after everyone is saying that is Op, wow its Op. Its a different concept of character and you have to know to play him and you have to know to play agaisnt him. If youre thinking about corners, and open your ears (buy a headphones) its sure youre going to be more protected agaisnt him. Time will say.

Its the same with proxys mines and bushwackers turrets. They make sound. It is supposed that everyone knows that they will be at the corners. Why then a lot of people “eats” them? They are overpowered? No. You have to pay attention to the sounds and be conscious.

If you pay atention to the game and the sounds you can avoid them. The same with Phantom.

This is my opinion and I can be wrong. As I said Its only my opinion. I was not going to write but Ive seen some people that are thinking the same that me. Then I decided to write it too.

What is going to happen when new characters arrive? When they launch smokebombs, you cant see nothing and then another one launch a firebomb and you start to burn? Are you going to start writing at the chat that they are overpowered? Every player has its own skills. There are lot of players and I think that you have to addapt to their behaviors.

As Ive said this is just my opinion and I can be wrong, but I really think that more time to addapt and more new characters to compare are required to have a good, global and balanced opinion. He is balanced and needs no changes at all.

He was available from yesterday. Open you ears as with proxy and Bushwacker.

Sorry for my bad English, it is not my mother tongue.


(GRUARRR) #68

[quote=“Glottis-3D;41974”]i like, how GRUARRR dislikes or disagrees with almost every single post here =)

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
© Oscar Wilde[/quote]

Ive just disagree posts that Im not agree with totally/partially. And i´m also pushing the agree button and the like button. If you speak about something, tell everything. If the option exists its because I can use it. Right? Forums exist to have discussions and to express yourself. Dont you want me to express myself? wow



“Libraries should be open to all - except the censor.

[Response to questionnaire in Saturday Review, October 29 1960]”
― John F. Kennedy
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(Fuze) #69

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;42002”]Are you really telling me that because he used a script that makes his entire video pretty much null?

Because a script that made him do a constant 360 is totally what gave him the advantage here…

Also, the devs DID know Phantom worked that way, proof

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/45086-Phantom-Feedback?p=533815&viewfull=1#post533815

Yes, we did have a turn-speed-limit implemented when using powerful melee attacks but had to remove it at the last minute due it causing some nasty networking issues.

We’ll be reworking the code on this and it should be coming back soon
[/quote]

facepalm You just confirmed that the game isn’t working as intended. Did you read what you quoted? There IS suppose to be a limiter. In other words, they don’t want the game to run like how it is shown in the video and were forced to temporarily remove it. In other words, adding a code to spin at a ridiculous speed goes against how they want the game to operate, thus proving it to be an exploit.


(GRUARRR) #70

[quote=“loonyTop;42012”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;41465”]I’m just gonna leave my opinion here:

I honestly think Phantom is balanced as is. Melee was always a really good way to get kills and Phantom has that as his main purpose since I never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. [/quote]

There you have it. never saw a Phantom actively doing any objectives. In an objective based game.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, anything that can fatally alter the outcome of a game but require no skill is not a good thing. The best thing about this game is that it plays like the opposite of COD; i.e. you can’t camp, the map develops and it works better when you play as a squad. With Phantom that’s all moot. You see a team with 3 Phantoms and you’ve already lost.
[/quote]

Look. An unicorn.

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And what about a team with three Rhinos/Naders?

I played against a team with 3 Vassilis at Chapel and it was tough.


(Temporary) #71

[quote=“kAndyREW;41439”]It wouldn’t hurt to take away chopper for his katana[/quote] I would take quick slash over chopper any day of the week, feel free to take it away :stuck_out_tongue:

Good to know I’m not the only one that helps the team when I’m playing phantom :slight_smile:


(Yes) #72

[quote=“Temporary;42227”][quote=“GRUARRR;42092”]
Look. An unicorn.
[/quote]
Good to know I’m not the only one that helps the team when I’m playing phantom :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I had someone on the opposite team raging at me for playing Phantom and ignoring objectives, even though I had planted both the C4 on Underground. :#


(Temporary) #73

[quote=“Clown;42228”][quote=“Temporary;42227”][quote=“GRUARRR;42092”]
Look. An unicorn.
[/quote]
Good to know I’m not the only one that helps the team when I’m playing phantom :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I had someone on the opposite team raging at me for playing Phantom and ignoring objectives, even though I had planted both the C4 on Underground. :# [/quote]
Haters gonna hate :stuck_out_tongue:

Side question, why do people like the KEK-10 so much? Stats wise the Crotzni leaves it for dead. Personally I’d prefer the Hochfir, I do way better with that in comparison to any other smg due to its awesome accuracy.


(Ghosthree3) #74

Dunno. I really hate the KEK, I can do well with pretty much every gun in this game except for the KEK and the TIMIK. With the KEK it feels like it hits with the power of wet paper, and I honestly can’t even hit anything with the TIMIK.

I prefer Blish to KEK even, and that gun can be really hit and miss.


(Yes) #75

[quote=“Temporary;42232”][quote=“Clown;42228”][quote=“Temporary;42227”][quote=“GRUARRR;42092”]
Look. An unicorn.
[/quote]
Good to know I’m not the only one that helps the team when I’m playing phantom :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I had someone on the opposite team raging at me for playing Phantom and ignoring objectives, even though I had planted both the C4 on Underground. :# [/quote]
Haters gonna hate :stuck_out_tongue:

Side question, why do people like the KEK-10 so much? Stats wise the Crotzni leaves it for dead. Personally I’d prefer the Hochfir, I do way better with that in comparison to any other smg due to its awesome accuracy.[/quote]
Not sure, it seems OK, but I don’t know why it’s loved so much. I prefer the Crotzni as well, but I’m willing to use the KEK on the loadout card with katana and chopper.


(Borganism) #76

Cloak cooldown is too fast. It can be spammed and used as a shield easily.

Effective health pool with shield freshly active is too high, I can take out a rhyno easier than phantom at the moment. (playing as skyhammer with a tmik)


(Glot) #77

Well it is a SD way of balancing mercs. First they make an OP merc, then they nerf him to balance mode.
Fragger was OP, got nerfed, now he is ok-ish
Aura was OP, got nerfed, now she is nice (prbbly needs a blishock buff imho).
Nader was spammy, got nerfed, then got re-buffed, now She is in nearly perfect place.
Proxy was OP, got nerfed, now she is perfect.

There is no doubt, that Phantom will be nerfed. the thing is, that with that nerf he should still be a fun merc to play and a fun merc to play against.
So i am against nerfs, that makes his unique style obsolete and useless.
But like with other mercs - no merc should be able to spam his ability (Phantom currently does), and No merc should be uncounterable (though Vassily(instagib) is sort of). And statistics will clearly show, whether Phantom is the ultimate killer or not. if its not obvious for everybody yet, like it seems here.


(GRUARRR) #78

Of course. I think helping others is one of things that makes this game different because you feel that youre not playing alone. You feel that youre playing with your team. You help them and then they help you. Furthermore the game give you more points for helping others and thats very good :smiley:


(GRUARRR) #79

[quote=“favoriteKnife;42452”]Cloak cooldown is too fast. It can be spammed and used as a shield easily.

Effective health pool with shield freshly active is too high, I can take out a rhyno easier than phantom at the moment. (playing as skyhammer with a tmik)[/quote]
Have you tried to deal with Phantom with another mercs?
I think Proxy is very good against Phantom. I have to try Aura and Sparks against him because they are also very fast.

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(PurpleNurple) #80

My only problem is when I play a healer I have to deal with the constant paranoia of ok is Mr. Weeee ooooo wee oooooo gonna pop out of no where while my attention is on my team mates. I play this game to feel fluid and move through the motions, not constantly be on the look out for a barely noticeable death cloud running at me that if I don’t know he’s coming I can’t kill. It sucks having to look for him now and I enjoy the game a lot more when there isn’t one on the enemy team.

I wouldn’t say he’s game breaking, but the amount of damage I need to do to him before he insta kills me as a healer is stupid. Playing Sparks isn’t fun anymore so I said screw it and only play classes that can take more than one hit from him. Only thing I ask is remove his armor and make it so any damage he takes makes him go visible just like how invisible heroes work on HotS. How he’s currently played is “lololol suicide melee fun time ! How many squishy can I kill during this life! Oh 3? Rinse and repeat lololol”.

He’s not good in competitive because of team work. He wrecks in pub, the place where you have new players and casuals that just want to exchange gun fire with others. DB unleashed a merc that new players are going to see and say “screw this game” and end up leaving. He serves no purpose other than making people who squishies frustrated.

I’m kind of glad my PC took a shit today tho. Hopefully by the time I get it back up and running something will be done about him.