Phantom Feedback by Einde : who ya gonna call ? Phantombusters !

(MARK5MAN7170) #61

Here is my 2 cents on the matter of a tweak

what about just splitting the cloak ability from the the armor so he has cloak to get close/flank then armor to mitigate the damage he takes from bullets and aoe damage while escaping but it deos not act like it currently deos now armor would just act as an extension. Also the split armor would act exactly like the cloak if you do an action such as shooting or stabbing the amor turns off same as for cloak but when this happens the armor timer resets and is on maximum cool down and you can manually turn off armor to spend less time in cool down and the cloak stays as it is.

(watsyurdeal) #62

Does this pleases you or not ?[/quote]

Not really, I just want a stealthy close range character to be the anti thesis to Vasilli, who’s a long range Sniper. Both of them are great in skilled hands but useless if you don’t know how to use them, and are equally devastating against unorganized teams.

He doesn’t really need armor, what he needs is actual invisibility, like I’ve said before. And it wouldn’t be overpowered because none of Phantom’s weapons kill in one hit, the only ones that will die are Sparks, Aura, and Proxy…but then again, they’re par for the course tho since the PDP kills them in a single headshot and Nader’s nade kill them in a single hit as well so…

(Jojack) #63

I like that idea eox. Quite a bit actually but would still prefer no armor.

And yeah, everything I post on this forum is in some way, either directly or indirectly, an attempt to convince the devs to buff my man Fletcher. Lol

Seriously, I want Phantom in the game. I’ve grown to absolutely love him and the potential dynamic he brings to the battlefield. This perspective has come through countless hours of play testing him (seriously I would be willing to put money on me having more hours on him than anyone else in the community lol). I despised his character concept at first but now see the value he brings. He just needs to be balanced.

(watsyurdeal) #64

I agree he is slightly unbalanced, I won’t deny the cloak right now is bullshit.

But as far the weapons go I’d have to disagree there, I think cloak is what they should tweak with first, then mess with the other stuff once they feel it’s in the right spot for encouraging smart and rewarding use, and counter play.

(BBYipho) #65

I don’t mind a heavy melee weapon one shotting classes with light health with mouse2. Also saw my suggestion was posted here. If the abilities do get split I would imagine cloak would have longer durations, more reason to bind a walk button.

My main complaint is that I can’t punish an unstealthy Phantom. I mean if he’s going to do that I rather he be a bit more obvious when he’s using the extra armor. It’s pretty horrible that my “only” defense is to trick the phantom to attack first so I can unload on him while back paddling, something entirely useless if he switches weapons. If he’s going to have extra shields paint him like a threat instead of hiding him.

I don’t want him nerfed to a boring level. He thinks he’s an action hero remember? That’s why I mentioned the idea of the split. I’ll probably be fine if they make swapping weapons off the katana slower.

(watsyurdeal) #66

[quote=“BBYipho;43639”]
My main complaint is that I can’t punish an unstealthy Phantom.[/quote]

This right here, RIGHT HERE, is why people are pissed at him.

That’s why cloak should be looked at first before anything else.

(Eox) #67

[quote=“BBYipho;43639”]
My main complaint is that I can’t punish an unstealthy Phantom.[/quote]

Gentlemen, we have our problematic ! Let’s just define a not so bad answer.

EDIT : how to punish him for not being stealthy… Well, first, no armor seems to be the most obvious statement. But it does not actually punish that much I guess. It can be fine though.

(Jojack) #68

You mean a phantom that is IN stealth mode but not being stealthy right? If so, I completely agree that this is the number one problem.

(BBYipho) #69

Like I said. If something is running up to you with added fake HP it should be painted as such and not hidden. The armor is part of his concept and I kind of don’t want that to go away.

If the armor and the cloak is seperated I would be 100% fine with phantom right now.

(watsyurdeal) #70

For example, try killing a Phantom when he’s running away while cloaked, even if he has low health.

Or try killing a Phantom who’s using his cloak and doesn’t start swinging till he is so close he could smell your perfume.

Like in here, at about 1:55

There was nothing that Nader could do, even if she hit a direct nade, the time between shots would have been enough of a gap to allow Phantom to get the kill.

(watsyurdeal) #71

Also, Eox, something of a note I’ve seen elsewhere.

I’ve heard the cloak gives about 75 effective hp, so maybe…the trick with nerfing cloak, is an hp nerf, and a damage reduction nerf.

So, let’s say this…

110 hp is your base, and we nerf cloak to reduce all incoming damage by 50%.

This would mean at full health, you have effectively 165 hp, while cloaked.

To get a better idea, just add 55 hp to whatever the player’s current health is at, so…

110 + 55 = 165

90 +55 = 145

50+55 = 105

20 +55 = 75

So in other words, a Phantom who is lit can no longer just escape away willy nilly, but then again, he also has enough health to close in for the kill assuming he’s running…so idk.

Maybe just getting rid of the damage reduction altogether, and just giving him perfect invisibility while walking would solve both those issues if Phantom is being used by a clever player.

(Eox) #72

I updated the main post (well, the third post actually) to add my second rework idea (also giving credits to @BBYipho ).

Keeping the armor is something that could be nice. But we could also remove it from Phantom just to give it to someone else (thing that I mentionned in the feedback actually). Ever heard of Turtle ? That guy is an engineer able to build a deployable cover if I refer to the E3 video. That armor could fit his supposed gameplay well I guess.

EDIT : @Watsyurdeal

This is the reason why I prefer to get rid of the armor thing if we don’t choose to split his ability. It’s feels just like bad design in my opinion. It could be nice if it wasn’t combined with his invisibility and no speed loss, but it’s not the case.

If you gain a superior health pool, you should be slower. Fragger is slower than Proxy for a reason.

(watsyurdeal) #73

[quote=“Eox;43662”] @Watsyurdeal

This is the reason why I prefer to get rid of the armor thing if we don’t choose to split his ability. It’s feels just like bad design in my opinion. It could be nice if it wasn’t combined with his invisibility and no speed loss, but it’s not the case.

If you gain a superior health pool, you should be slower. Fragger is slower than Proxy for a reason.[/quote]

True but Fragger has different abilties and a different role from Phantom.

Phantom should be a sneaky dude, who excels up close, but is countered by smart counter play and teamwork.

The way I see it, if we rework cloak, we should have the following goals in mind

  1. It must allow Phantom enough flexibility to get him within striking range
  2. It must also, at the same time, not be something you should waste, it should be cleverly used, like walking instead of sprinting to keep yourself completely invisible.
  3. It must allow the enemy a way to punish the Phantom, which is why getting rid of the armor or nerfing it would be good, and also removing the cloak drain on hit, so the enemy is just dealing normal damage to a Phantom that’s forced to expose himself once his position is given. Either through taking damage, or choosing to sprint to get out of the area.

Those are out goals guys, I think we can do that quite easily with subtle changes.

Also…what if cloak offered more armor based on augments? Like sacrificing chopper (+melee damage) for more armor, or sacrificing more armor for more katana damage? :open_mouth:

(Eox) #74

So. Remove Phantom’s armor mechanic from the invisibility. Reduce HP to 110. This is for part three.

Increase cooldown a lot, but extend invisibility duration. This is for part two. 16 sec CD for something like 8 sec invisibility could be fine. This is for part two.

And for part one, I’d allow Phantom to sprint while activating his invisibility (it’s not the case at the moment). As well as full invisibility as long as he’s not sprinting. This should add a bit more flexibility to compensate for the max HP lost.

Then, optionnal : the armor becomes a new skill, acting the same way I described above.

(watsyurdeal) #75

Sounds good, it’s not that splitting them is a bad idea, I just feel like armor on a stealth guy doesn’t make sense.

But then again, it could lead to some interesting play, so idk, we’ll see.

(Jojack) #76

And, and, and…swap the primary choices with Fletcher!

(watsyurdeal) #77

No, just give Fletcher the ability to strip, distracts all lady mercs…oh yea.

(Eox) #78

Best skill ever.

(ThatRandomGuy) #79

My suggestion :

-Make katana his primary weapon.
-Secondary weapon should be a heavy pistol (preferably DE 50)
-Stealth armor should have VERY low damage mitigation, like 2-3 bullets.
-Running over a mine with stealth should kill the guy.

Kek and damage armor is what makes PHANTOM annoying, not the invisibility or the damage he deals…
Everything else is fine !

All those people yelling KATANA needs nerf , lets talk about it.

There are 2 shotguns that has MORE than range than Katana, More RoF than katana and can insta kill people in small range.These shotguns can hit targets at range , can 1 hit kill people at CQC and you dont have to spin around to look for targets.
While with katana you need to be really close, if you miss your target…Its gona be pretty hard to find the target if its a proxy or sparks or something. The RoF of katana is slow as snail.

Players should be rewarded for using a melee weapon, nerfing katana would KILL phantom…

If we are gona nerf because people are crying, then we should nerf

-Aura health station camp
-Sparks headshotting
-Almost next to 0 cooldown on stickies
-Skyhammer airstrike damage

Lets nerf everything to ground and play with bubble guns ?!

(Nord) #80

This topic keeps talking about reworking the cloak and removing the armor but why not do it the other way around? The armor would work like the planet side 2 over shield without the slowdown. This would allow him to close the gap and melee someone or give an edge in a gun fight.

Plus Phantom already looks more samurai than ninja so the skill could be called Bushido with a longer cool down of about 20 seconds and a duration of 6.