Phantom Complaint Master Thread

(_Sniff_) #41

#4

(Jojack) #42

Completely agree. Started playing when open beta hit, so about a month. I have 264 hours logged on steam. I have spent about $70. Seriously considering uninstalling until Phantom is heavily reworked.

I’m not complaining. I don’t do that. Developers and communities don’t listen to it anyway. If I start to not have fun in a game, I just leave. I haven’t had fun since Phantom released.

Hopefully private servers get released and I find one that bans him. Or better, I hope the devs see that he doesnt’ fit and scrap him or give him a full rework.

Barring that, I’m sad that I won’t be playing this game anymore because I thought I finally found something that brought me back to the ET days where I stay up all night playing without realizing what time it was.

For all those saying that we just don’t know how to counter him…I’m still waiting on how we are supposed to since we are so dumb and you are so smart. The only real counter is to have a team of all Vassilis throwing enough heart beat sensors to cover your entire team. Because the tiny radius of one or two HBS does nothing.

(watsyurdeal) #43

He’s honestly not THAT hard to deal with, but I can see why he’d be hard to kill as a newer player who’s still learning to aim. If you can land shots on his head he dies pretty easily, as long as you spot him before he can start slashing into him.

I think that’s the main thing here, spotting him before he gets close, and the skill level of the people is what really makes or breaks this character…kinda like Spy though, so idk.

My question is if stealth is even viable like this in comp play.

(Jojack) #44

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;40986”]He’s honestly not THAT hard to deal with, but I can see why he’d be hard to kill as a newer player who’s still learning to aim. If you can land shots on his head he dies pretty easily, as long as you spot him before he can start slashing into him.

I think that’s the main thing here, spotting him before he gets close, and the skill level of the people is what really makes or breaks this character…kinda like Spy though, so idk.

My question is if stealth is even viable like this in comp play.[/quote]

Here’s the thing, I’m level 17, have 260+ hours on this game and I can aim pretty damn well. It doesn’t matter when he doesn’t have to aim AT ALL. All he has to do is wall jump around like an idiot until he gets close enough to pull out the katana (or you have to reload) and kill you in under a second. Every other merc has the skill cap requirement to be able to be hard to hit, while also being able to land hits. Phantom doesn’t. He doesn’t even have to look at you. He just makes himself impossible to land head shots on by moving well, and then…dead.

It’s not a skill issue. A good mover is extremely hard to kill when he doesn’t have to worry about aiming himself, even for those with the best of aim.

Hell, even with Proxy, one of the squishiest mercs in the game, it’s amazing how long you can stay alive inside a small room of enemies when all you are doing is throwing random mines and making yourself hard to hit. Even when there are players with good aim. It’s hard to kill someone that knows how to move and doesn’t have to aim. Now give that proxy 240 hitpoints and tell me it’s easy to kill if you just know how to aim.

(Jojack) #45

I think Phantom might break your cute little flow chart there Sniff. Hope I’m wrong.

(watsyurdeal) #46

And again that goes back to my post in another thread, he’s supposed to be a stealth character but currently he’s too tanky. Fix that and he is fixed, simple.

(_Sniff_) #47

Just wait till the new merc is released which counters Phantom. It’s what’s happens every time.

(Jojack) #48

Which merc is that? And what other merc requires a specific merc to counter it?

(aurens) #49

i haven’t been able to have fun in a game yet today. i can handle the invisibility. not that hard to see him. i can handle the melee. it’s annoying, but developers are obsessed with melee characters in shooters. it’s usually not overpowered, just annoying and unfun.

what i can’t deal with is the armor on top of that.

i can see him running at me from 15m away, but i cannot kill him before he gets to me. even with all headshots. that’s fundamentally frustrating. i can see my opponent and hit him with the full force of my attacks and yet it does absolutely nothing.

so i tried turning around and running the hell away. but no. he just shoots me in the back of the head. what the hell else am i supposed to do?

i know. i’ll play something else until splash damage makes dirty bomb fun again. and i’ll stop telling my friends to check it out, because otherwise they are going to be immediately scared away from what is (well, was) a really fun game.

(cornJester) #50

How do you counter a Sparks reviving from a mile away? Vassili! (or indeed Phantom) How do you counter a Rhino on a health station? Nader and Fragger! How do you counter a very well placed Bushwacker + Turret? Any explosive merc. How do you counter Vassili? Phantom. How do you counter Phantom? Vassili plus probably Red Eye when released. Interesting how Vassili and Phantom are counters to each other.

(_Sniff_) #51

Stoker has a very powerful Area of Denial Molotov as well as the Timik AK which eats people with headshots.

Redeye, if memory serves, has infrared vision. So he can see phantoms. His Sniper, the M14 is high RoF high damage and usable in CQB.

  2. Bushwhacker gets eaten by - Nader. Nader is strong against stationary deployables.
  3. Nader gets eaten by Fletcher - Naders CQB is weak while Fletcher’s is strong.
  4. Fletcher gets eaten by Rhino - I don’t fuck with Rhino’s when I play fletcher. The amount of times they shoot my sticky bombs right as I throw them is annoying.
  5. Rhino arguably gets eaten by Sparks - Medic doesn’t have to be close by a downed enemy to revive.
  6. Sparks gets eaten by Phantom - 1 shot and Sparks has weak CQB

That is the list of released mercs. In order. From earliest to most recent. It’s a pattern.

(Jojack) #52

[quote=“Sniff;41019”]Stoker has a very powerful Area of Denial Molotov as well as the Timik AK which eats people with headshots.

Redeye, if memory serves, has infrared vision. So he can see phantoms. His Sniper, the M14 is high RoF high damage and usable in CQB.

  2. Bushwhacker gets eaten by - Nader. Nader is strong against stationary deployables.
  3. Nader gets eaten by Fletcher - Naders CQB is weak while Fletcher’s is strong.
  4. Fletcher gets eaten by Rhino - I don’t fuck with Rhino’s when I play fletcher. The amount of times they shoot my sticky bombs right as I throw them is annoying.
  5. Rhino arguably gets eaten by Sparks - Medic doesn’t have to be close by a downed enemy to revive.
  6. Sparks gets eaten by Phantom - 1 shot and Sparks has weak CQB

That is the list of released mercs. In order. From earliest to most recent. It’s a pattern.[/quote]

I would say those are reaches, to say the least.

You don’t NEED a hard counter to any of those.

Phantom breaks the previous flow of the game unless he’s countered by either Stoker or Red Eye. Red Eye can counter his invisibility, but not his armor. Vasilli can counter both but in a very small portion of the battle field, Stoker can theoretically counter his armor (though in the current state of things I find it hard to believe Stoker’s molotov even scratches that armor, he survives air strikes for crying out loud…a DoT is not going ot dissuade him from moving right over it).

And by the way, I eat Rhino for lunch as Fletcher. Fletcher is my best Rhino hunter.

[quote=“cornJester;41018”]
How do you counter a Sparks reviving from a mile away? Vassili! (or indeed Phantom) How do you counter a Rhino on a health station? Nader and Fragger! How do you counter a very well placed Bushwacker + Turret? Any explosive merc. How do you counter Vassili? Phantom. How do you counter Phantom? Vassili plus probably Red Eye when released. Interesting how Vassili and Phantom are counters to each other.[/quote]

You counter Sparks by gibbing, not hard and any merc can do it.

You counter a Rhino on a health station (that’s a merc combo by the way, not a single merc) with any of the three mercs that have explosives, or by simply choosing a different path.

Bushwhacker + turret? Doesn’t need a counter.

You counter vasilli with one of the following: good aim, good awareness, Fragger, Nader, Kira, Arty, Skyhammer.

How do you counter Phantom? I dunno yet. You need more than the tiny radius of a HBS, and even if you didn’t it would completely change the HBS from a scouting tool thrown where the enemy is into a counter stealth tool thrown on top of your team. Red Eye? Useless because the cloaking isn’t a problem, it’s the armor that’s the problem.

Any other ideas on what counters (or will counter) Phantom? I haven’t seen one yet. Nor have I seen an example of a single merc that requires another specific merc to counter it.

edit - On top of all that, Phantom is the perfect counter to every single merc that we know about.

(brazenMob) #53

Phantom, in my opinion, should be removed permanently. The cloaking ability takes the skill and fun out of the game. I wouldn’t be opposed to the character, but cloaking at the very least, should have a cool down timer as long as the airstrike. Also, the melee should do the least amount of damage, of all weapons, if cloaking stays.

(MrComply) #54

@apricotDinosaur said:
Wasnt phantom originally removed because he didnt add anything positive to the game in the first place? Just sayin…

I can’t find it at the moment, but somewhere on one of the Dirty Bomb wiki pages it says that Phantom was removed from the closed beta because he was OP. It mentioned that players would just run around the map swinging their swords. I don’t see how the devs think they “fixed” Phantom with this current update…

(Jojack) #55

I’m fine with the cloaking, just get rid of the armor.

(_Sniff_) #56

You are right, not everything NEEDS a hard counter. But at the same time this game isn’t even back up to running order.

They aren’t creating new mercs. They removed them all from alpha and are slowly releasing them back into the public.

The design is already there we are just looking at a half finished jigsaw wondering why the picture looks off.

(Jojack) #57

[quote=“Sniff;41052”]You are right, not everything NEEDS a hard counter. But at the same time this game isn’t even back up to running order.

They aren’t creating new mercs. They removed them all from alpha and are slowly releasing them back into the public.

The design is already there we are just looking at a half finished jigsaw wondering why the picture looks off.[/quote]

I could accept that if not for the following:

  1. No other merc requires a hard counter. Phantom apparently requires a hard counter from a merc we don’t even know about yet.

  2. No other merc is a perfect counter for all other mercs.

  3. (And admittedly, I’m reaching here) In my personal opinion melee characters don’t belong in a FPS so I was soured on Phantom from the beginning. But not only is he a melee character, but he has the most effective HP of any merc, the best gun choices of any merc AND has a freaking cloak!

Why, if you are simply choosing a merc to play by his raw effectiveness, would you play anyone other than Phantom?

He kills better than anyone, he stays alive longer than anyone, he distracts better than anyone, because of those things he’s better at objectives than anyone. A team full of Phantoms has no weaknesses. You can’t say that about any other merc in the game.

(_Sniff_) #58

That’s the thing though. He isn’t hard to counter. Shoot him in the face. Don’t let him get close.

The tankyness is kind of bs but aside from that he should be left alone.

(Jojack) #59

[quote=“Sniff;41068”]That’s the thing though. He isn’t hard to counter. Shoot him in the face. Don’t let him get close.

The tankyness is kind of bs but aside from that he should be left alone.[/quote]

Shoot a guy in the face that has more HP than rhino and is trick jumping all over the map with no regard for aiming? All the while his teammates are shooting YOU in the face? And oh yeah, once you reload he insta kills you. Yeah, not hard to counter at all.

edit - and yes, if you removed the armor I’d be fine with him as is.

(Fuze) #60

[quote=“Jojack;41077”][quote=“Sniff;41068”]That’s the thing though. He isn’t hard to counter. Shoot him in the face. Don’t let him get close.

The tankyness is kind of bs but aside from that he should be left alone.[/quote]

Shoot a guy in the face that has more HP than rhino and is trick jumping all over the map with no regard for aiming? All the while his teammates are shooting YOU in the face? And oh yeah, once you reload he insta kills you. Yeah, not hard to counter at all.

edit - and yes, if you removed the armor I’d be fine with him as is.[/quote]

You really should stop claiming he has more HP than Rhino. he only has a significant boost in armor the very moment he activates his shield. From there, it’s being drained and the lower it gets, the less armor he has. Then include the fact that it also drains by damage taken and you soon realize that there’s only a few seconds where Phantom has any sort of tanking capability.