PC controls - Keyboard layout

(Senethro) #141

Come on mate, that kind of talk will lead us back into the grenade thread.

I’m going to try to be civil here. But can you not see that your position was overlooked because its… well… a little silly? You want a bad old control scheme instead of this new one?

The switching animation with Fbutton Tools is fast, takes less buttons, can be pre-selected, and all the rest.

Really, the only potential issue I see with it is what happens when you’re trying to bomb something as a Soldier and someone walks past you. Do you stop bombing to throw them some ammo? I’d hope that or nothing else like with medics medpacks/revive tool mixup can happen.

(Jamieson) #142

[QUOTE=Senethro;215537]Come on mate, that kind of talk will lead us back into the grenade thread.

I’m going to try to be civil here. But can you not see that your position was overlooked because its… well… a little silly? You want a bad old control scheme instead of this new one?

The switching animation with Fbutton Tools is fast, takes less buttons, can be pre-selected, and all the rest.

Really, the only potential issue I see with it is what happens when you’re trying to bomb something as a Soldier and someone walks past you. Do you stop bombing to throw them some ammo? I’d hope that or nothing else like with medics medpacks/revive tool mixup can happen.[/QUOTE]

You don’t understand that the feature in Brink is not new at all. We had this system in ETQW. You could run up to an objective and press Use and it plant/did the obj.

What ETQW had was both systems were you could preselect, this made the game good because you had both playstyles. What we don’t want is a system were Use does everything, you still had to select Hp/ammo packs in ETQW which avoided the problem you just described. The system we had in ETQW worked wonderfully why change it?

Besides I don’t think there was anything wrong with the grenade thread. Hard questions need to be asked, SD officials are professionals and should be able to take criticism whilst being mature about it and not spitting there dummies out and sulk… This is not personal at all and it should not be. You will note I have used reasonable language throughout…

(darthmob) #143

[QUOTE=tokamak;215536]I can’t find said script anywhere.[/QUOTE]How hard can it be? :wink:

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210302#post210302
http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=210069#post210069

Jamieson, :rolleyes:

(Senethro) #144

Actually, I always pre-selected in ETQW because I thought the F-button usage was slightly broken. There seemed to be something like if you started pressing F and moved cursor off the obj, or started with cursor off and moved on in a very small number of frames, then the tool wouldn’t come out and you’d stand about looking like a fool.

If the potential for me to embaress myself by failing at objectives has been removed then I don’t see the need for tools in weaponbanks anymore.

(Qhullu) #145

[QUOTE=Senethro;215537]You want a bad old control scheme instead of this new one?
[/QUOTE]
what is so bad about being in complete control of what your “avatar” does at all times?

(Jamieson) #146

My point exactly. I have ackowledged that some of you want to use the Use button, Why can you not just accept that some of us have an alternative style and like to use preselect.

(H0RSE) #147

Don’t mean it in a harsh way but people, including myself lose confidence when vital design features are overlooked/not catered for.
A “vital design feature” wasn’t overlooked…it was an optional feature that fans of the older games wanted due to it being familiar. To someone that never played previous SD games, this feature means nothing to them, and the game is completely workable and usable without it.

The fact that you acknowledge that someone other than SD fixed the problem while solving that particular problem does not do you/SD any favours in regards to potential customers confidence in SD.
As mentioned earlier, there was no “problem” to be fixed…just a script to cater to those players inept at accepting change.

(Ryan) #148

Please give out an early beta so I can have a look.
I am almost convinced :slight_smile:

(Jamieson) #149

[QUOTE=H0RSE;215547]A “vital design feature” wasn’t overlooked…it was an optional feature that fans of the older games wanted due to it being familiar. To someone that never played previous SD games, this feature means nothing to them, and the game is completely workable and usable without it.

As mentioned earlier, there was no “problem” to be fixed…just a script to cater to those players inept at accepting change.[/QUOTE]

You are right about new fans to the game but I never argued that they would, I said current fans (people who supported SD in the past) liked it. The game is workable without it, hell even Wolfenstein worked you could play it and complete the objectives but it was terrible. The point is the option makes the game better.

I’ am not inept towards change, Im embracing alot of new changes for Brink such as the Smart button and the customization etc what I’ am arguing agaisnt is poor change. Removing features what made previous titles great is not a good thing.

(signofzeta) #150

With 104 keys on the keyboard, both the weaponbank and the quick throw grenade can be used. The UIOPJKLNM<> area can be used to coordinate your squad, or the numpad can do that. That area can also mean adding more tools, although that might be a bit overkill.

The inaccessible areas, like essentially the right half of your keyboard, can be used for minor gameplay features.

Although ETQW does not use all 104 keys, its controls aren’t consolified. You know the controls are consolified when you can match one button from a console controller to a key on the keyboard. Or that there are only 16 actions corresponding to each button on the controller. Wolfenstein is prime example of this. There can be way more actions in the game to be bound to many more keys, but the game is only limited to 16 actions on the PC version.

The keyboard has 104 keys on the keyboard. It would be expected that my character has more control. Important Vsays bound to each key, squad coordination. More weapons etc. Those don’t really get in the way of your hand position, because those actions aren’t used that much. And honestly, I haven’t seen much of that stuff in other PC games. Not yet anyway.

Hmm, with 7 other teammates, you can bind each key to correspond to each teammate. Like talk to this guy, talk to that guy. Like uisng the numpad, or the keys in the UIOPJKL:NM<>area.

(Senethro) #151

You didn’t read anything since you posted last, did you SoZ?

Thats fair enough I guess. However, it sounds like from what Rahdo is saying that the situation has changed so much that the old rules don’t apply. If switching to tools is practically instantaneous and even pre-selects itself if you look at it early enough then all the old advantages of weaponbanks are out the window.

Removing features what made previous titles great is not a good thing.

Thats a little over the top, don’t you think? Is planting the bomb in CoD4 any less for it not being in its own weapon bank?

(H0RSE) #152

The point is the option makes the game better.
Congratulations! You formed an opinion.

I’ am not inept towards change, Im embracing alot of new changes for Brink such as the Smart button and the customization etc
The SMART button is optional, so you don’t really have to “embrace” it, and the customization you can’t really ‘get around,’ and really has no ‘hard’ effect on the gameplay. It adds versatility and longevity to the game, but doesn’t really change the core aspect of the game, which is attacker vs defenders. So basically, you’re all for change…as long as it can be avoided, or doesn’t really have anything to do with gameplay.

(signofzeta) #153

Don’t need to. I still think that all 104 keys, or at least the unreachable keys can be used to a PC game’s advantage. As I just stated in my previous post. But none of the games are doing it.

The Keyboard has so many keys that a quick select and a weapon bank can exist. The console controls only have quick select because they only have 16 buttons.

I just don’t think that the developers are thinking outside the box when developing PC games. You can’t reach those keys yes, but at least make them quick binds to chat to each individual player on your team, or a Vsay phrase for each button. Or limbo menu quick select, and thus eliminating the entire limbo menu altogether.

That is what I mean by using all 104 keys on the keyboard. Put the more important controls near WASD, and mouse, and the less important ones, in the more inaccessible areas. Like changing classes, suicide, talking to a single player.

Now tell me, how many of you go to a CFG file to bind an action not listed on the game UI and binding it to the keys on the right side of the keyboard? Like Vsays, quick class change etc?

(Jamieson) #154

[QUOTE=H0RSE;215552]Congratulations! You formed an opinion.

The SMART button is optional, so you don’t really have to “embrace” it, and the customization you can’t really ‘get around,’ and really has no ‘hard’ effect on the gameplay. It adds versatility and longevity to the game, but doesn’t really change the core aspect of the game, which is attacker vs defenders. So basically, you’re all for change…as long as it can be avoided, or doesn’t really have anything to do with gameplay.[/QUOTE]

Yes Horse I did and you know what, opinions represent what people think, You also know what? SD are interested in what people think. If Group A has an opinion that does not fit with what SD supplies then group A does not buy the game congradulations you now know how opinions work.

You don’t know me so don’t make assumptions you can’t back up, I ’ am actually very interested in the smart button and what it can do for everyone and Me and my clan will be embracing the customisation of the game for clan colours etc if it is available.

Gradulations for stating the obvious, seriously think before you type, and dont try and be a smart ass as well.

(tokamak) #155

No it can’t. A player still needs to keep his fingers on WASD or be a sitting duck. This is not a RTS we’re talking about.

(Senethro) #156

[QUOTE=signofzeta;215553]Don’t need to. I still think that all 104 keys, or at least the unreachable keys can be used to a PC game’s advantage. As I just stated in my previous post. But none of the games are doing it.

The Keyboard has so many keys that a quick select and a weapon bank can exist. The console controls only have quick select because they only have 16 buttons.

I just don’t think that the developers are thinking outside the box when developing PC games. You can’t reach those keys yes, but at least make them quick binds to chat to each individual player on your team, or a Vsay phrase for each button. Or limbo menu quick select, and thus eliminating the entire limbo menu altogether.

That is what I mean by using all 104 keys on the keyboard. Put the more important controls near WASD, and mouse, and the less important ones, in the more inaccessible areas. Like changing classes, suicide, talking to a single player.

Now tell me, how many of you go to a CFG file to bind an action not listed on the game UI and binding it to the keys on the right side of the keyboard? Like Vsays, quick class change etc?[/QUOTE]

No, thats a bad idea. .cfgs are personal and its up to the player to create their own, especially when it comes to the YUIOPHJKL:NM<> rows.

I also think everyone knows how you feel about 104 keys by now so you don’t need to repeat again.

I even rebind all RTS keys to WASD. I suspect good RTS players something similar.

(Jamieson) #157

ESDF gives you extra keys. don’t forget lefties who might use the arrow keys aswell (i used to do this.)

(signofzeta) #158

I’m talking about unimportant actions here. For the important actions like crouch, reload, use, throw grenade, it would be bound near WASD. One button vsays would be bound further away. The suicide button would be bound in that area too. And even further away, would be the quick class change. I mean, you can basically make an entire limbo menu on the right half of your keyboard. And I don’t even think you need the numpad, considering some laptops don’t have them.

One button for spawn here. One button to change to this class. One button to pick this mission. One button for changing teams.

(Jamieson) #159

[QUOTE=signofzeta;215558]I’m talking about unimportant actions here. For the important actions like crouch, reload, use, throw grenade, it would be bound near WASD. One button vsays would be bound further away. The suicide button would be bound in that area too. And even further away, would be the quick class change. I mean, you can basically make an entire limbo menu on the right half of your keyboard. And I don’t even think you need the numpad, considering some laptops don’t have them.

One button for spawn here. One button to change to this class. One button to pick this mission. One button for changing teams.[/QUOTE]

This is true i used to have an entire set of binds so I never had to use the limbo menu. Could choose my team class and weapon loadout and where i spawned by pressing keys on my keyboard. A key for respawning is always useful as well.

(H0RSE) #160

But what about PC games that don’t have vsay or limbo menus or suicide buttons? What about PC games that don’t actually need to use all these buttons, are they lazy for not having the ability to?