PC controls - Keyboard layout

[Ryan]

[QUOTE=abnorm;215057]perfect! then I can use my nextGen controler:

[/QUOTE]

Auto-sprint towards objective, auto-switch, auto-grenade, what’s next? The console even has auto-aim

[Senethro]

Gonna quote myself in response to Ryan.

[QUOTE=Senethro;215490] Whats interesting about team based FPS? Is the mix of aim skill, movement skill, teamwork skill, communication skill and all the rest. From my reading of Brink so far I’ll still be able to sprint out of spawn down a sideroute, backrage an engi whos trying to set up defense, get sniped, call snipers position and see a team mate 3second cook nade him over a wall, respawn as objective class, enter obj room behind medic and headshot two defenders while they focus on medic…

And then is the game ruined or saved by how I press a button to do the objective?

Lets focus on whats important.[/QUOTE]

BTW, FYI, JSYK, ICYAW, console versions have had various levels of auto-aim for years. It has no impact on a PC controls thread.

[Jamieson]

[QUOTE=Senethro;215499]But you can pre-select in this system by just looking at the obj and pressing F.

Is this the RTCW fanbase that didn’t like W:ET or the W:ET fanbase that didn’t like ETQW? Or do we have a new divide between ETQW and Brink?[/QUOTE]

I actually played W:ET and played ETQW as well competitvely. The point is alot of hate of ETQW was unjustified.

They’re not removing anything…Brink is a new game. I think the biggest misconception is that this is just another ET game…it’s not… It’s not a spinoff, it’s not a sequel.

But they are, SD has a great reputation for making good games, They made ETQW a great game and gave us more options with the 2 systems for weapon switching and planting etc. Why should we go backwards and remove this? Does not make sense. Regardless of Brink being a new game SD should respect its current fanbase.

[Ryan]

Whats interesting about team based FPS? Is the mix of aim skill, movement skill, teamwork skill, communication skill and all the rest.

movement skill, gone
teamwork skill, (dunno wth this is? ever played online? how many games was with a skilled team?)
communication skill, I thought voip was off by default?

Whats the skill if everything is done with only 1 button?

[H0RSE]

Regardless of Brink being a new game SD should respect its current fanbase.
And perhaps the fanbase should respect SD and let them make their game, trust the choices they are making, and have a ‘don’t knock it till you try it’ approach to Brink. Enough if this, gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, want, want, approach to the game.

Whats the skill if everything is done with only 1 button?
So the skill comes down to how many buttons have to be pushed to do something, rather than the ability of actually doing them? This is interesting…So if I arm a bomb and kill someone who is trying to disarm, it takes more ‘skill’ if it took 3-5 buttons to do rather than 1?

[Senethro]

Whats the skill if everything is done with only 1 button?

The part where you shoot people in the head, move with agility through the map and coordinate with your team?

Edit: Naaaaaah.

[INF3RN0]

And perhaps the fanbase should respect SD and let them make their game, trust the choices they are making, and have a ‘don’t knock it till you try it’ approach to Brink. Enough if this, gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, want, want, approach to the game.

I really doubt they are making games for themselves… It only makes sense to listen to those who support your business.

[dohfOs]

They’re not removing anything…Brink is a new game. I think the biggest misconception is that this is just another ET game…it’s not… It’s not a spinoff, it’s not a sequel.

well. to quote Rahdo from an interview with Play.tm he said;

Well, what Splash Damage is trying to this could be seen as an evolution of Enemy Territory you could call it Enemy Territory: The Arc, you know, it is a continuation of that franchise.

the gameplay is similar so i’d say it’s understandable if people see Brink as a spin-off or in some way - a kind of sequel even though they don’t share the same name. it’s not that far-fetched.

[Jamieson]

And perhaps the fanbase should respect SD and let them make their game, trust the choices they are making, and have a ‘don’t knock it till you try it’ approach to Brink. Enough if this, gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, want, want, approach to the game.

The fact is Horse if the current fanbase does not like it then they wont buy the game, Who loses there? The players or SD? Voting with your wallet is the best way to get the message accross. The point is if SD want to make the most profit, which is what businesses depend on to stay in business, then they should listen to the current fanbase while catering for a new one to maximise profits and make the best game they can. You do this by giving people options not taking them away.

[Dormamu]

I take Rahdo post with a bit of salt, in his post his only mistake was that is overhyped as we know him.
I confess… “zipping towards the target”… it’s a little blurry (someone liked to much Batman:AA and Bionic Commando :D?)… but i have faith… need to see some video about this.

[Qhullu]

[QUOTE=Rahdo;215482]
The unified use key ensures that right up until the moment you start working, right up until the last possible instant, you’ve got your gun and you can shoot and defend yourself. How can that possibly be a bad thing? You want to throw your gun away when you’re 10’ away and basically run up naked? How does that make sense, especially since it buys you zero extra time and gobbles up 4 or 5 extra keys that could be used for other stuff. Like i said, when you do decide to hit the use key, you’re working nearly instantly. there’s no ineffeciency… you keep your gun in your hands, you run up to the thing, you fight all the way, when you get there, you’ve still got your gun and you can fight, or in the time it takes you to move your finger from D to F (or whatever), you’re working. How is that a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
the thing is that while a keyboard has only few buttons you can hold down without affecting your ability to move exactly as you wish, there are plenty you can tap when at a moment when unaffected movement isn’t crucial. take for example reviving someone during a firefight, against people with good aim, the moments close to the actual revive are when you are most vulnerable since the people shooting at you know what you are about to do. so having to do something other than move freely or press a mouse button during those moments will probably just make you blame whatever it is you have to do if you happen to die.

an example of not an atypical revive in et would be hearing a teammate behind you die while fighting with enemies, and since you develop a sort of intuition on where exactly the teammate is laying in relation to you based on sound, the compass, and the map, you can keep fighting and choose an opportune moment to strafejump the correct distance and direction backwards, pull out syringe midair tapping f, land crouching with the teammate pretty much in front of you, make the slight movement adjustments if needed, revive and use them as a shield.

the system brink uses, as far as i understand it, would force you to stop moving right for as long as it takes to tap f at the moment of revive, and tapping f is awkward when moving right. but also make you point at the body, which can cause even more frustration amongst the pc crowd.

i suppose a complicated script can fix everything other than the pointing at the body requirement, if you can print some kind of visual indication on screen that you in fact have the syringe/paddles “equipped” not your gun.

[Ryan]

[QUOTE=Qhullu;215515]the thing is that while a keyboard has only few buttons you can hold down without affecting your ability to move exactly as you wish, there are plenty you can tap when at a moment when unaffected movement isn’t crucial. take for example reviving someone during a firefight, against people with good aim, the moments close to the actual revive are when you are most vulnerable since the people shooting at you know what you are about to do. so having to do something other than move or press a mouse button during those moments will probably just make you blame whatever it is you have to do if you happen to die.

an example of not an atypical revive in et would be hearing a teammate behind you die while fighting with enemies, and since you develop a sort of intuition on where exactly the teammate is laying in realation to you based on sound, the compass, and the map, you can keep fighting and choose an opportune moment to strafejump the correct distance and direction backwards, pull out syringe midair tapping f, land crouching with the teammate pretty much in front of you, make the slight movement adjustments if needed, revive and use them as a shield.

the system brink uses, as far as i understand it, would force you to stop moving right for as long as it takes to tap f at the moment of revive, and tapping f is awkward when moving right. but also make you point at the body, which can cause even more frustration amongst the pc crowd.

i suppose a complicated script can fix everything other than the pointing at the body requirement, if you can print some kind of visual indication on screen that you in fact have the syringe/paddles “equipped” not your gun.[/QUOTE]

You forget you also have to stop fighting and LOOK at the teammate or the objective to get your friggin tools out?? :S

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=H0RSE;215508]And perhaps the fanbase should respect SD and let them make their game, trust the choices they are making, and have a ‘don’t knock it till you try it’ approach to Brink. Enough if this, gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, want, want, approach to the game.[/QUOTE]I sort of agree with you. There are some valid points made but one should only go so far. I don’t remember who got it in his signature but “respect is everything!”.

[QUOTE=Ryan;215516]You forget you also have to stop fighting and LOOK at the teammate or the objective to get your friggin tools out?? :S[/QUOTE]If it works instantly nothing changes! Of course you look at somebody if you revive him. No one forces you to look at him all the time.

[QUOTE=Jamieson;215513]The fact is Horse if the current fanbase does not like it then they wont buy the game, Who loses there? The players or SD?[/QUOTE]I’d say it’s the players who lose. I guess that the current ET/ETQW fanbase has next to no impact on console sales and that’s where the money is at. If you can’t cope with it you simply have to keep playing 10 year old games.

[Qhullu]

If it works instantly nothing changes! Of course you look at somebody if you revive him. No one forces you to look at him all the time.

actually you don’t have to, at least in et/rtcw, in their general direction yes, but not directly at them.

[Rahdo]

First of all, just wanted to apologize for the slightly snide passive-aggressive tone of my earlier post. Didn’t want to sound like I don’t take your guy’s concerns seriously. Obviously I do, or I wouldn’t have spent 4 hours now of my one day off work in the last 2 weeks to talk to you all (it’ll probably be 5 hours by the time I finish this post, I bet)

Reading this makes me think when you hit the ‘use’ key, the game sucks you in towards the obj like a tractor beam. Is this the case? And if it just means you hit ‘use’ and then manually run to the obj, what happens if you leave? Like what if you initiate the use function, but then have to divert from the obj for some reason?

I should have been more clear about that. Actually you can see the autorun thing in action in that same container city 2 video. While paul is playing, he’s looking into the crane, sees the [interact with me] HUD indicator appear, and starts holding they use key. He gets sucked right up and into the crane, and then (insert bug happens here where he stops autopulling because there was no collision on the crane console and he would have flown right through it ) and then he stops holding the button, walks around for a bit, and then holds it again to start doing the action.

So imagine the whole thing without the no collision bug, and it’d be just a smooth zip up to the console and when you get there, you’re already working on it. During this zip, he can still strafe left and right and control himself, but if he’d prefer, he didn’t have to start holding the button down below. He could have run and climbed up there himself manually, and only hit the use key when he actually got into place. Totally up to the player.

So long story short, the “magnetically pulled to the objective” thing is completely optional. Run/sneak/dodge/etc up to instead of relying on the auto-run and just hit use when you get there and you’ll be repairing/hacking/whatever lickity split.

The best thing to do is to cater to both gamestyles that way you don’t exclude anyone.

As I mentioned, you can use Darkangel’s brilliant script trick to get the controls you’re used to (tap some other key to put your gun away and change LMB to ‘interact’)

about the interacting with an object. doesn’t this mean i just might be able to let’s say repair an object even though i ain’t in the same room?

As one would expect, you have to have to actually be standing next to a thing to interact with it. You can’t do so through walls and whatnot.

auto(insert whatever word here) usually rings an alarm-bell (even though i believe SMART will be a great exception) in a PC-game

Yup, fair enough, which is why I’ve always tried to keep these auto-things optional, and let you still do it yourself. I didn’t have the foresight for this in regards to preselecting, but as already mentioned, you can do it anyway with Darkangel’s script.

Is this the RTCW fanbase that didn’t like W:ET or the W:ET fanbase that didn’t like ETQW? Or do we have a new divide between ETQW and Brink?

Well, this is unavoidable, I suppose. W:ET and ETQW are both great games, and they both have their own unique twists to the same formula of multiplayer gameplay. I hope Brink is a great game too (we think it is, but we’re very close to it), which will also have some unique twists.

perfect! then I can use my nextGen controler:

Nah, that’s too many buttons. Don’t forget, next gen is all motion controls (no, don’t worry, Brink is not a motion controlled game!!!)

Regardless of Brink being a new game SD should respect its current fanbase.

Would I be here if I didn’t?

Whats the skill if everything is done with only 1 button?

I’ve addressed this so many times in the past, both here, on crossfire, and in lots of interviews. Do I really need to do it again?

Smart button = optional. Going without and using skill gets speed bonuses
Auto-run = optional. Going without means more control and tactics for approach to interactive objects
VoiP off = optional. Play on a server with it turned on if you don’t like.
Unified use key = optional (well, thanks to Darkangel’s script)

And at the end of the day, this is a deep team based tactical shooter. The skills you should be flexing are more about aiming, shooting, and smartly choosing classes, objectives, etc. Skill for pressing the jump button is nice (and still in the game), but is way secondary, IMHO

the thing is that while a keyboard has only few buttons you can hold down without affecting your ability to move exactly as you wish

Yup, that is a very valid point, and I completely agree and mea culpa’d about it on grenade throwing, and it’s equally valuable here. And it’s also resolved by Darkangel’s script…

the system brink uses, as far as i understand it, would force you to stop moving right for as long as it takes to tap f at the moment of revive

Who said anything about stopping moving? You can keep moving before, during and after interacts of all sorts. You can still be dodging around like a crazy summbitch!

You forget you also have to stop fighting and LOOK at the teammate or the objective to get your friggin tools out??

? of course you’re going to stop fighting to do the hack or repair or whatever it is. How does this change from any previous ET? In which version were you able to keep fighting while you were arming a mine? What do you expect to look at when you’re arming a mine? Your toenails?

If it works instantly nothing changes! Of course you look at somebody if you revive him. No one forces you to look at him all the time.

And in fact, there’s special character ability you can upgrade to which lets you (censored by the media powers that be)

[Rahdo]

p.s. can i also add, thanks guys for keeping the conversation civil and polite. this is SOOO much betta than what that grenade thread descended into…

[Senethro]

A day later I was horribly embaressed by the grenade thread.

Cheers Rahdo!

[Qhullu]

[QUOTE=Rahdo;215525]Who said anything about stopping moving? You can keep moving before, during and after interacts of all sorts. You can still be dodging around like a crazy summbitch!
[/QUOTE]
well it is kinda hard to keep pressing d while you tap/press f? at least for me. but yes this is resolved with a script provided you allow printing something on screen that tells me i currently have needle/paddles bound to my mouse1, not my gun.

[QUOTE=Rahdo;215525]? of course you’re going to stop fighting to do the hack or repair or whatever it is. How does this change from any previous ET? In which version were you able to keep fighting while you were arming a mine? What do you expect to look at when you’re arming a mine? Your toenails?
[/QUOTE]et is pretty liberal in where you look while doing stuff. the ability to plant a dynamite anywhere within a certain area allows you to choose between a place with a line of sight to where the enemy should be coming from and a place with no line of sight there (=good cover) or anywhere in between. the ability to look pretty much where ever you want (in fact you can even keep your back turned to the tank/commandpost you’re repairing if you so choose) admittedly diminishes the closer to the cover option you choose, but will still be important when performing any action that happens in a place the enemy is able to shoot at. i understand the system in brink requires you to place/keep your crosshair over the model when doing stuff?

[Jamieson]

As I mentioned, you can use Darkangel’s brilliant script trick to get the controls you’re used to (tap some other key to put your gun away and change LMB to ‘interact’)

The fact is if Darkangel had not thought of that script then the problem would still remain. SD didn’t implement the feature, seems lazy to me or a silly oversight. What about people that want the option but don’t know about the script or know how to use it?

Seems to me like your trying to cover this up with PR techniques, if Darkangel had not thought of this script you guys would be in serious trouble, seems like he saved your asses. Don’t mean it in a harsh way but people, including myself lose confidence when vital design features are overlooked/not catered for.

The fact that you acknowledge that someone other than SD fixed the problem while solving that particular problem does not do you/SD any favours in regards to potential customers confidence in SD.

[tokamak]

I can’t find said script anywhere.