PC controls - Keyboard layout

[uvhannes]

I don’t think I’m alone when I say ‘sigh’.

i have to agree… And in all honesty, i think its really time to state that this game’s main target are consoles. At the moment I am very worried about the PC “port”.

[Senethro]

What are you people inclined to moan about? Those sound like clever solutions to old problems that should have minimal impact on the hardcore crowd?

[channa]

senethro go away, get a gf, go outside get some fresh air or summit anything to keep you off these forums no doubt you will reply straight after this post

the f button is fine only if your giving people the option tho

some people prefer the f button others prefer weapon banks now in etqw you provided both options why cant this be for brink

the f button has been a disaster before today in games with same type of gameplay as brink, for example wolf 2 when you went to revive men there was a delay to equip tool otherwise you would shot a medpack instead which was annoying. im not saying this is what will happen in brink but wanting to know how quick/delayed the action is and also will we see a repeat of wolf 2 with the wrong actions happening to what your trying to achieve?

please make it a option to have weapon banks and the f key this will then appeal to a bigger audience as you have catered for all types of gamers

the f key makes you sprint to the obj etc is a bad idea even tho you can probs break free of the action your making a dumb game, the end user is playing this game so it should be his decision to determine how he does the obj at hand but maybe i misunderstand this part so please answer my questions

maybe there is weapon banks but you didnt state if there was or wasn’t or what the banks consist of

thanks

[Senethro]

No doubt!

I know you’re away now Rahdo but if you’re looking back, what people will really want to know is what this means:

In Brink, everything is pretty much instant

How instant is instant? Is it literally gun down-tool out very quickly, rather than a long leisurely animation like in ET games?

Also, pardon the paranoia but a question I feel needs to be asked:

also, i would have thought this would be self evident, but there’s no aim-assist for mouse&keyboard play.

I’m pretty sure requirements of GFW (Games for Windows) include a bunch of compatibility stuff but also that it supports an Xbox controller plugged into the PC. I take it PC controller players won’t have aim assist either, right?

[Rahdo]

I could just finish running to obj and when starting to turn towards it, press my weaponbank and when i have turned towards the obj i have the tool in my hand. I know this is a very short period of time, but in the competitive world, such opportunities can make or break a game.

Here’s the thing that really really surprises me. As you say, those brief moments are what makes or breaks a match. There is no time during combat when you’re in more danger than when you’re attempting to do an objective. The enemy knows where you are, knows you’re going for it, and it’s do or die time.

And yet you guys seem to want to throw your guns away and be completely defenseless when it’s the worst possible time you could ever do it. If someone had said to me a year ago “Hey, I think players would want to run into the heat of battle, become the most valuable target for the enemy team by doing an objective, and then when they’ll be most in danger, they’ll want to be without their gun at the ready. Yeah, they’ll want to be completely helpless right at that moment”, i would have thought that fellow quite silly, and yet here we are, and you guys do want that.

Mind = blown

The unified use key ensures that right up until the moment you start working, right up until the last possible instant, you’ve got your gun and you can shoot and defend yourself. How can that possibly be a bad thing? You want to throw your gun away when you’re 10’ away and basically run up naked? How does that make sense, especially since it buys you zero extra time and gobbles up 4 or 5 extra keys that could be used for other stuff. Like i said, when you do decide to hit the use key, you’re working nearly instantly. there’s no ineffeciency… you keep your gun in your hands, you run up to the thing, you fight all the way, when you get there, you’ve still got your gun and you can fight, or in the time it takes you to move your finger from D to F (or whatever), you’re working. How is that a bad thing.

I think you guys assume there must be some crazy laggy 2 or 3 second long ‘unequip your gun and then equip your item’ animation that you have to wait through? that doesn’t happen. your gun is always in your right hand. your item is always in your left hand. the two switch back and forth very very quickly. for an idea of how quickly, check the container city part 2 video. near the end when paul, as an engineer, repairs a crane, you can see that it’s nearly instant, the swap. NB: in that video, paul came to a complete stop before he hit the use key, but he didn’t need to; he could have rushed right up and been working immediately, and the important thing is, up until that point, he could have had his gun out and been protecting himself.

now, all that said, if you really want to run around unprotected, you can do another version of the script darkangel came up with for the grenade thing. you could map the script to some key, and when you press it, it remaps the LMB from ‘shoot’ to ‘use’, and when you press it again, it reverts. so that would be a way to have what you’re used to, i suppose. still don’t understand why, but obviously, i just don’t get it.

and again, I guess all I can say is I’m sorry i didn’t see this as an issue. This wasn’t about consolization at all for me. it was all about ensuring you could fire your gun at all times. i thought that would be more important than anything. i still think that for most players, it is more important than anything. but if you guys don’t want it, you can do the script trick, and bob’s your uncle

[H0RSE]

In brink, when you’re 20’ away, you’ll just start holding ‘F’ (or whatever you map interact to), during which time you can continue to run toward the thing (and even if you don’t, you’ll still be moving at maximum speed, and even faster than maximum speed, towards it because the game will autorun you), and by the time you get 3’ away, your blowtorch is already out (automatically) and you’re already welding.

Reading this makes me think when you hit the ‘use’ key, the game sucks you in towards the obj like a tractor beam. Is this the case? And if it just means you hit ‘use’ and then manually run to the obj, what happens if you leave? Like what if you initiate the use function, but then have to divert from the obj for some reason?

And about wanting to use the weaponbank and Rahdo being confused…I think that the majority of the PC players are just a bunch of stubborn gamers who aren’t welcome to change. (I am one of the un-stubborn PC gamers)

They moan about this…
they moan about the dedicated nade button…
they moan about voice defaulted to off…
They moan about body types…
They moan about specific planting locations…

Are you guys never happy? Just because SD is working on it, doesn’t mean it’s going to be an ET or QW clone. BRINK IS ITS OWN GAME! My thinking is that the only thing that will ease their worries is hands-on experience with the game to be assured that everything works well, if not better than it used to, and that there is nothing to worry about. All the forum posts in the world won’t put their minds at ease. And if they still don’t like it…they can go play ET or QW.

[Senethro]

At the risk of bringing up old arguements, this sounds to me like as if in addition to offhand grenades and offhand melee, you’ve got offhand tools!

A quickly animated, quickly accessible, wholly superior solution to weaponbanks.

[Nail]

“A quickly animated, quickly accessible, wholly superior solution to weaponbanks”

gotta agree, I like the way this works

[DoubleDigit]

What are you people inclined to moan about? Those sound like clever solutions to old problems that should have minimal impact on the hardcore crowd?

Actually, these are solutions for non problems. That’s what you get for having a console gamer designing PC UI.

Sigh++;

[Jamieson]

And yet you guys seem to want to throw your guns away and be completely defenseless when it’s the worst possible time you could ever do it

We are talking about comp here though. As a comp player I have complete trust and confidence in my teammates to protect me while I go for the objective. My role is not to kill it is to support and to get the job done. Thats the point of comp, the best organisation, the best teamwork, if a player can’t trust the man who fights next to him then the team is doomed.

for example in ETQW on Salvage at the mining laser I would often go constructor and strafe left and right on the mining laser while stroying down. My teammates would block me so Snipers could not take me out, give me stroyent and defend me from any enemies trying to engage me.

We just want the option. We appreciate that people will prefer the 1 button but we want complete control over our weapons and the ability to be able to preselect weapons before we get to the objective. The simple fact is this.

1. You are in cover you switch to your arming/objective tool and run towards the objective and hold mouse 1. Easy

2. You run around from cover and run towards the objective. You press a button which switches your weapon for you which takes a second. You then have to click to start arming. That second could be a vital second for arming the bomb and the difference between 95% armed or 100% armed.

You might not think this a big difference but when tournaments and trohpies + money are at stake it is. I have seen matches go down to the last second, all we are asking for is for the option.

Biggest rule in Market research, don’t assume anything, go out ask the people and make sure. You have to understand that your viewpoint may be different from others and that making assumptions is dangerous. I think you are probably correct that in pub play it is best to have your gun out because you cannot count on other people, The best thing to do is to cater to both gamestyles that way you don’t exclude anyone.

[Senethro]

[QUOTE=DoubleDigit;215487]Actually, these are solutions for non problems. That’s what you get for having a console gamer designing PC UI.

Sigh++;[/QUOTE]

But they don’t matter. They don’t get in the way.

Whats interesting about team based FPS? Is the mix of aim skill, movement skill, teamwork skill, communication skill and all the rest. From my reading of Brink so far I’ll still be able to sprint out of spawn down a sideroute, backrage an engi whos trying to set up defense, get sniped, call snipers position and see a team mate 3second cook nade him over a wall, respawn as objective class, enter obj room behind medic and headshot two defenders while they focus on medic…

And then is the game ruined or saved by how I press a button to do the objective?

Lets focus on whats important.

[Senethro]

We are talking about comp here though. As a comp player I have complete trust and confidence in my teammates to protect me while I go for the objective. My role is not to kill it is to support and to get the job done. Thats the point of comp, the best organisation, the best teamwork, if a player can’t trust the man who fights next to him then the team is doomed.

Mate, you missed the point. The point is that you don’t need to pre-select because its so damn quick.

[Corpse]

I think you guys assume there must be some crazy laggy 2 or 3 second long ‘unequip your gun and then equip your item’ animation that you have to wait through? that doesn’t happen. your gun is always in your right hand. your item is always in your left hand. the two switch back and forth very very quickly. for an idea of how quickly, check the container city part 2 video. near the end when paul, as an engineer, repairs a crane, you can see that it’s nearly instant, the swap. NB: in that video, paul came to a complete stop before he hit the use key, but he didn’t need to; he could have rushed right up and been working immediately, and the important thing is, up until that point, he could have had his gun out and been protecting himself.

^this was probably not clear enough in the past.^

I didn’t realize you have both (gun&tool) in your hands at the same time in Brink.
And I’m pretty sure most of the guys here made the same mistake, thinking too much about previous games.
So when you press the use key the tool appears in you left hand and it only takes up your right hand at the moment you start using it. Am I correct?

Thanks for clearing that up, Rahdo.
Guess I’ll study those vids about container city again.

We are talking about comp here though. As a comp player I have complete trust and confidence in my teammates to protect me while I go for the objective. My role is not to kill it is to support and to get the job done. Thats the point of comp, the best organisation, the best teamwork, if a player can’t trust the man who fights next to him then the team is doomed.

Having a gun in your hand besides your tool doesn’t hurt, right?
Just because you have a gun next to your tool doesn’t mean you have to kill anyone around the objective.
It’s just helpfull to defend your self till the last possible moment

[channa]

rahdo how much w;et or etqw have you played?
becuase you would understand why some enjoy a weapon bank and what the advantages/disadvantages are

what im trying to say is you could have given both options a f button and a weapon bank regardless how good and cool your f button is and let the player decide which to use, like yous did in etqw

i understand this is probs to late now to even think about and i will leave it here

and my other ques what is in a weapon bank?

i know brink is a new game and not from the et series and i wish use gl

thanks

[H0RSE]

lol, for practically every new feature, you guys say “why can’t we have both.” At this rate, they will be releasing 2 versions of the game:

Brink and Brink: Enemy Territory Edition.

[Jamieson]

Mate, you missed the point. The point is that you don’t need to pre-select because its so damn quick.

You clearly missed the whole point of my reply, The point is people want that option. I don’t care how god damn quick the 1 button is the fact that you have to hit that button before you switch is always going to be slower than preselecting. Thats the whole point, preselecting is faster but puts you at risk because you cannot defend yourself when you move for the obj.

lol, for practically every new feature, you guys say “why can’t we have both.” At this rate, they will be releasing 2 versions of the game:

Brink and Brink: Enemy Territory Edition.

Horse, we just want them to respect the current fanbase. They got that fanbase by giving us options. We want them to make progress and not go backwards by removing features. Besides its not a new feature it was in ETQW. Same as the Grenade issue thats not new either, i’m starting to lose confidence now with these oversights.

I don’t mean to be harsh but see my previous reply

Biggest rule in Market research, don’t assume anything, go out ask the people and make sure. You have to understand that your viewpoint may be different from others and that making assumptions is dangerous.

You can’t keep making assumptions, These are serious issues that will effect how combat feels and will have an overall effect no the game itself.

[dohfOs]

thanks for the long reply rahdo. you’re quite awesome aren’t you? however. there are still some stuff that at least my head doesn’t make sense (well, not completely at least).

[QUOTE=Rahdo;215411]what this means is that even if you’re 20’ away from something in game, if you’re aiming at it, and you see the ‘interact’ icon on it, you can start interacting with it from all the way back there. what this will then do is magnetically pull you toward the object at maximum speed (in some cases, like a moving teammate, faster than normal speed) and by the time you reach the thing in question, your item is already equipped and doing it’s job.

In brink, when you’re 20’ away, you’ll just start holding ‘F’ (or whatever you map interact to), during which time you can continue to run toward the thing (and even if you don’t, you’ll still be moving at maximum speed, and even faster than maximum speed, towards it because the game will autorun you), and by the time you get 3’ away, your blowtorch is already out (automatically) and you’re already welding.[/QUOTE]

the whole “this will then do is magnetically pull you toward the object at maximum speed” & “the game will autorun you”. i get the whole “you can still shoot while repairing” (f.e.) and that you don’t have to be 1 meter from an object to interact with it. but at the same time, what do this autorun feature do good? seems rather annoying/dumb to me (obviously i haven’t tested it but it sounds quite silly). i reckon (again, a complete guess) that people don’t wish to be autorun’ed. how exactly does this work?

and about the interacting with an object. doesn’t this mean i just might be able to let’s say repair an object even though i ain’t in the same room? (and even though there would be lots of testing done here wouldn’t there always be a chance of lots of glitches?)

and don’t get me wrong. i love that you interact with us in the way you do. but this just didn’t make complete sense to me. auto(insert whatever word here) usually rings an alarm-bell (even though i believe SMART will be a great exception) in a PC-gamer i would just really like to have this explained once again :stroggtapir:

might be just me. but getting magnetically pulled towards something… naaah. or is it just me that this sounds rather unPC’ish sorta speak?

[Senethro]

[QUOTE=Jamieson;215497]You clearly missed the whole point of my reply, The point is people want that option. I don’t care how god damn quick the 1 button is the fact that you have to hit that button before you switch is always going to be slower than preselecting. Thats the whole point, preselecting is faster but puts you at risk because you cannot defend yourself when you move for the obj.
[/QUOTE]

But you can pre-select in this system by just looking at the obj and pressing F.

Horse, we just want them to respect the current fanbase. They got that fanbase by giving us options. We want them to make progress and not go backwards by removing features.

Is this the RTCW fanbase that didn’t like W:ET or the W:ET fanbase that didn’t like ETQW? Or do we have a new divide between ETQW and Brink?

[Corpse]

[QUOTE=Jamieson;215497]You clearly missed the whole point of my reply, The point is people want that option. I don’t care how god damn quick the 1 button is the fact that you have to hit that button before you switch is always going to be slower than preselecting. Thats the whole point, preselecting is faster but puts you at risk because you cannot defend yourself when you move for the obj.

We just want them to respect the current fanbase. They got that fanbase by giving us options. We want them to make progress and not go backwards by removing features.[/QUOTE]

Isn’t pushing that button the same as preselecting? Or am I being too short sighted here?

And I have to agree with dofhOS. That autorun sounds dodgy.

Edit: I work too long on these posts. Senethro beat me to it.:mad:

[H0RSE]

Horse, we just want them to respect the current fanbase. They got that fanbase by giving us options. We want them to make progress and not go backwards by removing features.
They’re not removing anything…Brink is a new game. I think the biggest misconception is that this is just another ET game…it’s not… It’s not a spinoff, it’s not a sequel.