PC controls - Keyboard layout

(Nail) #81

if you really think it’s just copy/paste, you need to read more

(Senethro) #82

And do us the courtesy of making us read less.

(signofzeta) #83

if it wasn’t, then why would they try to make a 360 game work on a PC and a PS3, and not make a PC game work on a PC, and it goes the other way around too.

Not talking about this game, but hope Splash Damage becomes one of those developers that makes sure a PC game is a PC game, and when they make console games, they should really make sure that each version is unique in every respect. When a game is optimized for the 360, it probably isn’t optimized for the PC, and PS3. If the game is optimized for the PC, it probably isn’t optimized for the console.

When a PC game feels like a console game, it is definitely copy and paste work, or should I say, they didn’t put enough effort into converting a console game into a PC game.

And this is coming from a guy who plays both PC and console games, and not just PC, or console games, and when I play both, the game feel too much the same, and one is trying to be the other, and not trying to be itself. That is the problem I am referring to.

The notorious system that everybody wants to be is the 360. You see some of the PC games that look like console games would look like the 360 version. PS3 games look like the 360 version. Some developers don’t make use of the PS3’s unique features, and they don’t make use of the unique features on the PC.

I don’t understand what is the real cause of why developers limit themselves when they create multiplatform games, and why some multiplatform games have to be like the 360 version.

To know that this is true, one must buy the same game for different platforms. I’m notorious for doing that, and I mostly buy games on the PS3 and PC, and I always find that those games aren’t being made to suit the PC and PS3.

yeah, go tell that to all those legal document writers with fine print that is on every single area of a 8x11 piece of paper that you need to sign. or I bet that you are one of those who reads the beginning and end of a long document, signs it, and then when you sue them, they show you a part of the document that you didn’t read, and you get busted. But the thing here is, my post isn’t a legal document, so you don’t have to read it. My real aim is for when Brink has way too many actions, it should have each key for each action, and one key for universal actions as well, or each key for a number of combinations of actions that probably isn’t possible on console, then I go rant about console games trying to be like PC games.

That was the entire point.

(Nail) #84

you just don’t have a clue, I’m sorry, you need to read more on developing games for each platform

(signofzeta) #85

I don’t care how they develop it, it is the final product that comes out.

I guess I could have said they did copy and paste work on the testing aspects of it. They go, if it works on 360, we will copy our results, and therefore if it works on that, we paste our 360 results on the PS3 and PC, and therefore they definitely work on those platforms, if they try to convert it, by changing some code, or whatever they do, so that the 360 game is played on the PS3 and PC.

What they don’t do is convert it, look for things that the PS3 and PC might have that the 360 does not, and make use of those features.

The only to know why developers do this, is for a real developer to come in and tell us why they aren’t using the full extent of the keyboard when they do the controls, and the number of actions the game has, and why console versions have to have aimbot like aim assist.

if they never used copy and paste whatsoever during the product conversion, I would have seen PS3 games with better graphics and maybe the use of the motion controls, and PC games with optimal use of every single key on the keyboard, without having to resort to asking people how to write a CFG file.

So to Splash Damage developers, why do developers do this? How do they convert a PC game into a console game and vice versa? Did they at least take ideas from developing one game on one system, and use those same ideas to develop them on another? That is copy and paste to me.

Why aren’t games on each platform unique anymore? And no wonder why PS3 exclusives are better than the PS3 games that also have 360 versions. They were developed for and designed with the PS3 in mind. It is also no wonder why the PC version of Quake Wars is better than the console versions.

At least I am certain that Brink will definitely work pretty well on the PS3, because they at least started from scratch with the PS3, that is what I thought they did anyway. As long as it does not feel that the PS3 version is better off played with the 360 gamepad, then that is fine by me.

And blah blah, PC controls should make use of every key on the keyboard blah blah. There. That is my entire point. The other is just fluff. Speaking of which, the 360 version of brink should be best played with a 360 gamepad, and impossible to play with a keyboard and mouse, or at least harder. Same goes for PS3, and PC, and their respective control setup.

Back in the day, my cousin has a SNES, my friend has a Genesis, and I have a PC. Back in the day, there are reasons to go to each other’s house. I don’t know about today, but let’s say one of you have a PC, your friend has a 360, and your cousin has a PS3. Are there any reasons for you to play at your friend’s place, and vice versa? If not, is it because the game you are playing plays so much like your friend’s version that there is no point anymore? Especially with the controls? Which is the biggest factor?

(Senethro) #86

You don’t understand development. You’re making suggestions that would obviously be unpopular with console players. You’re repeating yourself in a thread. You’re repeating yourself by bringing this pet issue into every thread, no matter how relevent.

(H0RSE) #87

I don’t know about today, but let’s say one of you have a PC, your friend has a 360, and your cousin has a PS3. Are there any reasons for you to play at your friend’s place, and vice versa?

PC players still get superior control with a mouse, better graphics, higher frames, The freedom to upgrade and build your own system, user created mods, maps, skins, models, etc. Games typically last longer online (console gamers tend to go for the “flavor of the month” approach) Online is usually vastly superior (dedicated servers both company and user owned, lobbies, more server options, higher player limits, etc.) More active community. (PC users tend to more hands-on and tech savvy and will frequent forums more with actual useful information and feedback, rather than “this game sucks!” or “Why doesn’t it have MW2 graphics?”

There’s still a big difference between the 3 systems…at least between PC and consoles.

(signofzeta) #88

the consolification of a PC games was rare back in the day, and now it is more common. I do wish it were like back in the old days where when you see gameplay video, it better be so that you know for sure that is a PC game. PC gamers and console gamers are way different, but what about the games themselves?

And why my suggestions be unpopular with console players? Because the developers brainwashed them, and they don’t even know how to truly play on a console, and they rely on aids like aim assist, well extreme aim assists anyway. Back then, it took way more skill to actually beat a SNES and Genesis game from start to finish, and the FPS games on the PS1 and N64 were more challenging than the more modern ones.

Maybe the developers thought that oh, they play the PC version, and how will they get used to the console version, but I don’t think many of you will buy 2 versions of the same game. This is why I stress uniqueness, so that a gamer can be proud of owning the PC version, or PS3 version for example.

And this is coming from a guy who has played very old PC and very new PC games, as well as very old console, and very new console games, or at least saw someone play it, and in my eyes, today, you couldn’t tell a console and a PC game apart, and in more extremes, a 360 and a PS3 game apart by watching gameplay video on a TV. Before then, you could actually tell that a game was a Genesis game, or a N64 game. But looks don’t matter. The biggest concern is the controls. Another concern is if the game uses dedicated, or peer 2 peer. And if it has lobby system. The biggest downfall with MW2’s PC online system is that it is trying to use a system that works best on consoles, and place them on PCs.

And if cramming properties that make PC games great onto console games and vice versa is popular, then yup, gaming is screwed, at least to me, which is why I rarely play games anymore.

(Nail) #89

ToyBox and PoS3 are toys, computers are tools
everything without dedicated servers is total fail, p2p is for torrents

(Senethro) #90

Unnecessary paragraph waxing nostalgic for a time when the economics and development methods were different, not developers themselves.

And why my suggestions be unpopular with console players? Because the developers brainwashed them, and they don’t even know how to truly play on a console, and they rely on aids like aim assist, well extreme aim assists anyway. Back then, it took way more skill to actually beat a SNES and Genesis game from start to finish, and the FPS games on the PS1 and N64 were more challenging than the more modern ones.

Just because you used the word brainwashed doesn’t mean you’re right and they’re wrong. Oh, more nostalgia that current generation console players won’t care about. Also, a little elitism about skill.

Maybe the developers thought that oh, they play the PC version, and how will they get used to the console version, but I don’t think many of you will buy 2 versions of the same game. This is why I stress uniqueness, so that a gamer can be proud of owning the PC version, or PS3 version for example.

Strawman, identifies it as a strawman, makes conclusion that doesn’t follow and already happens as far as is sensible.

And this is coming from a guy who has played very old PC and very new PC games, as well as very old console, and very new console games, or at least saw someone play it, and in my eyes, today, you couldn’t tell a console and a PC game apart, and in more extremes, a 360 and a PS3 game apart by watching gameplay video on a TV. Before then, you could actually tell that a game was a Genesis game, or a N64 game. But looks don’t matter. The biggest concern is the controls. Another concern is if the game uses dedicated, or peer 2 peer. And if it has lobby system. The biggest downfall with MW2’s PC online system is that it is trying to use a system that works best on consoles, and place them on PCs.

Builds self up as an authority, talks about irrelevent console stuff, finally comes back vaguely on topic to controls, wanders off again, makes erroneous statement about MW2.

And if cramming properties that make PC games great onto console games and vice versa is popular, then yup, gaming is screwed, at least to me, which is why I rarely play games anymore.

Yeah, I have no idea at all what you mean by this. The quality of a game is not affected by what other platforms it exists on.

(Senethro) #91

[QUOTE=Nail;214943]ToyBox and PoS3 are toys, computers are tools
everything without dedicated servers is total fail, p2p is for torrents[/QUOTE]

oh god someone tell me some ycs catchphrases i can rabidly post out of context

(Nail) #92

signofzeta,

Carmack and 3 others built 3 Commander Keen episodes in 3 months
“I remember Romero and I making sixteen Keen 2/3 maps in like 2 days” Tom Hall
“and the entire data set for Keen would fit in the space of a single modern texture.” John Carmack

this ain’t the 90s, wake up and smell the Bustelo

(Nail) #93

oh, you do well enough on your own

:wink:

(Senethro) #94

hey at least im not a 40 year old using playground language in posts to make sure everyone knows you identify as a ~PC GAMER~

(Nail) #95

I’m not either, and most people around here know my take on consoles

(DoubleDigit) #96

Answer to all of signofzeta’s questions:

First: Why do they just port the UI and general game design on all three systems: Time and money. Thrust me, this is the only part that’s get copied over, PC Xbox and PS3 are way too different to just copy the code, consoles having way less ram than the PC, PS3 having 8 cores and finally, PC having tons of configurations.

Second: Why games require less brain and skill in general. Because games these days appeal to a much wider audience and developers think that by making the game easier more people will buy them. They are right and wrong at the same time, they shouldn’t make the game easier, they should just focus on making the game easier to pick and remember, but still require skill to master it. Making the game easier for the average Joe who doesn’t even care in the end, because he’ll just buy another game next month and forget about this one, only ruins the experience for those who actually want to PLAY it. Why? Because they are afraid to make a stand and say, listen moron, stop asking us to make the game more ‘real’. Reality and games on computers have nothing in common, we will only put features similar to real life IF and ONLY IF they’ll enhance gameplay and make the gamer’s experience more fun. How would it feel if you wouldn’t be able to drive like a maniac in GTA and get a ticket or jail time or even kicked out of the game everytime you would brake the law?

In the end, more and more idiots play games these days, and they want ‘realism’ and multiplayer games to make them feel like a Rambo just like the single player games and developers do that. Put thousand of achievement and bravos every time the idiot farts just to make him feel like a god, because, let’s face it, more idiots, more money. We, those who actually play the game complain about everything and only play 2-3 games per year. So screw us.

(Ryan) #97

Guys, STOP trying to argue with Senethro, he is blinded by his own godlike truth

(Rahdo) #98

hi everybody!

lot of topics here. lets start with the one i shouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole: consolification of controls. here’s how i look at it:

even though the pc has over 100 keys, in terms of true “usable” or “reachable” keys, there aren’t that many more than what you’ve got on console, if you want to keep your fingers on your four movement keys at all times. So just saying ‘hey, let’s use every single key’ isn’t a proper design, as far as i’m concerned, so if a solution that works well for the consoles (unified use key) also helps address this problem for the keyboard, then what’s the harm?

which leads to specifics about our unified use key. here’s what you guys have to understand: brink is not like the previous ETs in that it took awhile for the item to be equipped, during which time you were helpless. In Brink, everything is pretty much instant, and what’s more, there’s a fundamental shift in how you select stuff in the world. in other games, your proximity to an interactive item determines what you’ll use. in Brink, it’s not your proximity, it’s your facing. what this means is that even if you’re 20’ away from something in game, if you’re aiming at it, and you see the ‘interact’ icon on it, you can start interacting with it from all the way back there. what this will then do is magnetically pull you toward the object at maximum speed (in some cases, like a moving teammate, faster than normal speed) and by the time you reach the thing in question, your item is already equipped and doing it’s job.

So in effect, we’ve automated pre-selecting. in the ETs, when you’re 20’ away, you’d hit ‘5’ to equip your ‘blowtorch’ (just making up examples) while still running forward (if your fingers are long enough), and when you got 3’ away, you’d start holding LMB to do the welding.

In brink, when you’re 20’ away, you’ll just start holding ‘F’ (or whatever you map interact to), during which time you can continue to run toward the thing (and even if you don’t, you’ll still be moving at maximum speed, and even faster than maximum speed, towards it because the game will autorun you), and by the time you get 3’ away, your blowtorch is already out (automatically) and you’re already welding.

in ET, once you’d hit ‘5’, for that entire 20’, you had no gun. in brink, once you start holding ‘F’ are are zipping towards the target, you’ve still got your gun and you can still shoot.

so overall, with the brink system, i’d say you’re sacrificing nothing (you’re just as fast an efficient as the old style), but gaining a lot (you don’t have to move your fingers away from movement keys, you don’t give up your gun, you haven’t tied up a lot of extra keys on the keyboard)

a couple other things from this thread:

striking someone with the butt of your two handed weapon hurts a bit. striking someone with a knife (which you only have equipped with a pistol) hurts a lot. neither of them are insta-kills, they just deliver damage. now, if you’re a standard skinny with no health buffs, yeah, a knife strike will kill you, because you don’t have many hit points, but if a medic has buffed you, or if your team has taken a health command post, etc., your safe from insta knife kills too (unless, of course, you’re already hurt… knifes can be great ‘finishers’ if the enemy has been softened up, but even a gunbutt can do that too, if they’re weak enough)

also, i would have thought this would be self evident, but there’s no aim-assist for mouse&keyboard play. :slight_smile:

and thus ends my 2.5 hour weekend SD board duty. see you guys next week (though it’s getting harder for me to make time these days, since we’re crunching a bit :mad: )

(murka) #99

What if i’m 20’ away from obj and can’t look at it? For example i’m looking if enemies are coming from other directions. Then when i reach the obj, i must look at it and then press f, which takes time. I could just finish running to obj and when starting to turn towards it, press my weaponbank and when i have turned towards the obj i have the tool in my hand. I know this is a very short period of time, but in the competitive world, such opportunities can make or break a game.

edit: In the heat of battle, i need all my fingers to be on wasd keys, so no other place to bind the use key than my mouse. Why must i lose an extra button because of it?

Honestly, giving an option is better than dictating “how it’s meant to be played”.

Tho i haven’t seen the flow of this game, i doubt such a system will get accepted. It was the first thing in Wolfenstein to be modded out…

(.Chris.) #100

I don’t think I’m alone when I say ‘sigh’.