PC controls - Keyboard layout

(signofzeta) #61

there are around 104 give or take 2 keys on the keyboard. It would be kind of lame not to use them all, at least bind each key for each action. Problem with Wolfenstein was, it only bound 16 keys for more than 16 actions, and with key binding, I hope developers treat the PC as a separate entity to consoles, because 104 keys on the keyboard, and 3-5 buttons on a mouse isn’t just for show.

This goes the other way too. Developers should stop adding aim assist, because I am sure console gamers who have gamed on consoles for all their life know how to play FPS games on a console. They don’t need training wheels, well maybe decreased aiming sensitivity near the target, but not GLUED ONTO THE TARGET. Because I swear, that when I used aim assist on ETQW on the 360, the cursor followed the target as long as I held down the right trigger to fire at the target. I didn’t even have to move the right analog stick to aim.

Has anyone ever heard of a Nintendo Wii game that has no motion controls?

(Senethro) #62

[QUOTE=signofzeta;214508]This goes the other way too. Developers should stop adding aim assist, because I am sure console gamers who have gamed on consoles for all their life know how to play FPS games on a console. They don’t need training wheels, well maybe decreased aiming sensitivity near the target, but not GLUED ONTO THE TARGET. Because I swear, that when I used aim assist on ETQW on the 360, the cursor followed the target as long as I held down the right trigger to fire at the target. I didn’t even have to move the right analog stick to aim.

Has anyone ever heard of a Nintendo Wii game that has no motion controls?[/QUOTE]

You’re really soapboxing about that issue aren’t you. Come on meight we’ve all heard it 10 times by now.

(H0RSE) #63

This goes the other way too. Developers should stop adding aim assist, because I am sure console gamers who have gamed on consoles for all their life know how to play FPS games on a console. They don’t need training wheels,
And what about the gamers who haven’t gamed on consoles their whole life? I guess they’re just shit out of luck then…

(signofzeta) #64

even newbies don’t need extreme aim assist where it locks onto a target. A decrease in sensitivity near the target is enough, but nope, it has to lock onto the target. The controller isn’t as fast as the mouse, and developers should stop comparing it to the mouse, as well as limiting the amount of keys of the keyboard to only 16 keys just because a controller has 16 buttons.

The one thing that developers got right with the Wii is that if the game is made for the Wii, then it is probably for that platform. If a game is made for the keyboard and mouse, that is faster paced shooters with twitch movement, they try to cram them into the PS3 and the 360. It just does not work that way, as well as trying to shove a console game onto the PC, as we have seen with many games out there.

And you know how they fix the fast aiming of a mouse on a console controller? With aim assist. Console gamers don’t need it because everybody is using the same input method. Adding in aim assist is just like trying to teach a kid how to ride a bike with training wheels, and the wheels never come off, and thus the kid never really learns how to ride that bike.

The pace of the console versions don’t need to match the PC version, and the developers should remember that.

The problem is that developers are treating the PC like a 360 and PS3, and the other way around too, and not each platform as a unique entity with all its bonuses, and all its flaws.

So I am asking why developers do this. Console gamers aren’t facing against PC gamers, so in that case, they don’t need a handicap. Also why isn’t the PS3’s motion controls used as an alternate control method to the same action that would be mapped to a button because the 360 version does not have motion controls, and all that stuff.

So what I want for the PC controls is for Splash Damage to make use of every key on the keyboard, and make the PC version unique in that each action that would require the same button on a console version would be mapped to different keys in the PC version, as well as a universal “use” key.

…And no ridiculous aim assist gluing to target kind of thing. Decreased sensitivity as the reticle passes by is enough.

(H0RSE) #65

even newbies don’t need extreme aim assist where it locks onto a target. A decrease in sensitivity near the target is enough, but nope, it has to lock onto the target.
This is purely speculative, and different games have different degrees of aim assist. Some games it acts like a magnet, while others are more more subtle. Also, most games have an option to turn it off.

…And no ridiculous aim assist gluing to target kind of thing. Decreased sensitivity as the reticle passes by is enough.
They said they are trying new things with aim assist for the console. Making it feel more ‘natural’ and emulate a mouse more. One of the things they were working on was if you are being attacked from behind, when you turn around the controller will do a quick turn.

(signofzeta) #66

[quote=H0RSE;214627]This is purely speculative, and different games have different degrees of aim assist. Some games it acts like a magnet, while others are more more subtle. Also, most games have an option to turn it off.
They said they are trying new things with aim assist for the console. Making it feel more ‘natural’ and emulate a mouse more. One of the things they were working on was if you are being attacked from behind, when you turn around the controller will do a quick turn.[/quote]

I don’t get why they need to emulate the mouse? If they want to play with mouse like precision and accuracy, get it on the PC. It isn’t like they are going to force the motion control scheme of a wii game, and try to shove it into the PS3’s limited motion control sixaxis controller. It just does not work that way.

As with smart, those who don’t use aim assist should have more of an advantage over those who do, and at the moment now, in games in general, it is the other way around.

My gripe is, why are developers trying to develop a console game and shove it into a PC, and also develop a PC game and shove it into a console? FPS games, can be on a console, it just needs to be made for a console, and not trying to get it to play like its PC counterpart.

At least in early PS1 FPS games, they never had aim assist. Even witout it, it is actually still playable, but I would still waste a lot of ammo, so I am saying to add a bit of decreased sensitivity near the target area, and all developers should completely abolish the magnetic crosshair idea, because that is equating to an aimbot in a PC game.

The thing is, most games are on 3 platforms. PS3, 360, and PC. When one of the platforms is the Wii, it goes like this. PS3, 360 and PC versions, and a Wii version that is totally different from the other 3. Why can’t the PC version be totally different from the 360 and PS3 versions, and make use of the keyboard and mouse control setup, and be optimized on PC?

I’m beginning to think that the game starts out as a 360 game, not talking about this game, but some other games I know, and is ported to the PC or the PS3, because the 360 does not have the number of keys on a keyboard, and it does not have motion controls. The PC version uses only 16 of the 104 keys, and the PS3 version does not have motion controls. So I am beginning to think that the 360 is dragging the uniqueness of the other 2 platforms back. The only way they can do this is to develop each game separately, instead of doing copy and paste work from platform to platform. If it is a rich company doing the copy and paste work, then they are just being cheap.

And do you notice that in games that have PC, PS3, and 360 versions, and sometimes a Wii version, the people always show the 360 version in game conventions? Because it is the lowest common denominator of all 4 platforms? If it plays great on the 360, it is obviously going to play great on the other 3 platforms, but if it plays great on any of the other 3 platforms, it does not necessarily play great on the 360.

(Senethro) #67

The thread is called PC controls, not walls of text about console controls.

(Ryan) #68

Then don’t read it I would say.

I found it very interesting in how he describes the evolutionairy drawback of the PC version of a game, and thereby losing it’s keyboard functionality which would make it unique for the PC gameplay.

(H0RSE) #69

The PC version uses only 16 of the 104 keys,
pretty much every PC game doesn’t NEED 104 keys to be used…if there are only 16 buttons that are needed, the PC has the advantage to bind those actions to any or most of the 104 keys. Pretty much every game PC game has fully mappable buttons for controls. So it can use all 104 buttons, just not all at the same time, plus mouse sensitivity is still much higher and more precise than console controllers…I don’t get what you’re complaining about.

(signofzeta) #70

Look at Wolfenstein. The action to throw ammo, and repair objects is mapped to ONE SINGLE BUTTON. This thing could have split into two separate actions, requiring 2 separate buttons. The keyboard has 104 keys, it does not mean that you have to merge 2 actions into one, so that you can map it onto one key, just so you could use 16 of the 104 keys, because the controller has 16 buttons.

So I hope for Brink, that the actions can be separated, as well as the USE key for everything, because no one wants to do something else when the cursor is not directly on a target.

I’m complaining about how the precision aiming is supposed to be exclusive to the PC, and developers are forcing that onto consoles, or make ridiculous aim assist that look like aimbots.

The uniqueness of the PC version means that:

It can have precision aiming
It can have up to 104 actions or more
In FPS games, your character can’t move in a circular motion
PC versions have better aiming.

Console uniqueness is:

No precision aiming, but use other methods of aiming that isn’t some sort of aimbot
Only 16 buttons
Your character can move in a circular motion.
Console versions have better footwork.

And what are developers doing? Forcing the precision aiming onto consoles, and forcing the 16 button setup that consoles have, onto the PC, even when the game has way more than 16 actions, and must be merged onto one button for consoles.

As I said before, the xbox 360 is the lowest common denominator, why would a PS3 verson or Wii version not have motion controls? Why would the PC version use 16 of the many keys on the keyboard despite the game having more than 50 actions? Because the 360 does not have motion sensor, and it does not have more than 100 buttons on the controller. If it works on that, it is bound to work on PS3 and PC.

I hope that any developer realize that porting a game onto a different platform isn’t simply copy and paste work.

So what the PC controls layout should be, is that if there are 50 actions let’s say, these 50 actions better not be crammed onto 16 different keys, or have more than 2 keys do the same thing by default.

(MILFandCookies) #71

forcing the 16 button setup that consoles have, onto the PC, even when the game has way more than 16 actions, and must be merged onto one button for consoles.

:stroggflag:
(darthmob) #72

Finally someone managing to describe the problems with pc <-> console controls without sounding like a fanboy. You get my seal of approval, signofzeta!

(H0RSE) #73

but what zeta describes is only a handful of games. A majority of PC games have every action bound to a single button. The whole “multiple actions bound to a single button” scheme is few and far between.

(abnorm) #74

not true! you can set different buttons via cfg in wolfenstein.

(.Chris.) #75

Yeah, _action and _use

(Qhullu) #76

yea no buttons where the game decides what happens when i press it please. also, i’m sure it won’t be a problem with brink, but many times when porting console games over to pc, the developers forget to include proper mouse control (precise settings for sensitivity, acceleration, yaw and pitch) and include things like smooth mouse and mouse lag lol

(signofzeta) #77

yeah, but any newbie wouldn’t know that, it should be accessible from the get go.

I think Call of Duty is already has, or starting to have the same consolification of controls on the PC version. Trying to cram so many actions into a few buttons. Then again CoD might have so few actions that it does not need that many buttons.

(AnthonyDa) #78

It was an option added in the day one patch of WOLF, after complains of peps who downloaded the leaked retail (aka beta).

(DoubleDigit) #79

What’s worse is that it is true. Pretty soon you’ll be typing messages in games using the cursor keys…

How about this. Assign a true pc gamer as the producer in charge of the PC version, not some console guy who only uses the PC just to respond to mail and browse the net. This guy should design all the keyboard/mouse layout, menus and general UI to take advantage of the PC, not to ‘tweek’ the already designed console UI for the PC.

(signofzeta) #80

wow, never knew that, I’d better take a closer look.

Oh yeah, back to what I was saying. It is not only PC vs Console, but 360 vs PS3 as well. You know why people like the 360 version better than the PS3 version? It is because the PS3 version is actually an xbox 360 game that can run on a PS3. That is why. The PS3 version does not make use of the PS3’s strengths.

The Wii is the only system that seems to have their own unique games, and the way you play them are unique as well. The other 3 platforms have games that are copy and paste work to one another, namely they make a xbox 360 game, and just copy and paste that onto PS3 and PC.

So when I buy a PC game, I expect that everything, UI, controls, etc, be tested on PC, and same with all the other consoles.

During the testing phase, I don’t want to hear, “ok, this game works on the 360, and therefore it works on all other platforms”.

The only thing I seem that is really affected by this copy and paste work is the controls, and what the game does when the button is pressed. Everything else is fine. UI is affected too, but not as much.

Also, when games are made, make sure that you want the buyer to buy the PC, 360, PS3, and Wii versions of the game. If you do that copy and paste work, there is no reason to buy all 4 versions, or in most cases here, 3 versions of the game, since there are a few FPS wii games anyway.

Oh oh oh, another thing I forgot to add, why limit the PC version to 16-20 actions when, having 104 keys on the keyboard, expand to add extra actions exclusive to the PC version like rolling, sliding (which probably already exist in Brink), using some buttons to coordinate with squad members, and all that stuff. I think that some developers have the right idea here, except that I’m only ranting against those developers who just have to limit the amount of actions in a game because the console version does not have that many buttons. The number of actions in a game are limitless.

I also hate gamers who go “wah wah, it isn’t fair that the PS3 players get this, the 360 players want this too, and we want it exactly the same, and vice versa.”

I remember the days when Nintendo had Final Fight, and Sega had Streets of Rage. Both games control differently, and both are unique are many regards, although they are both beat em ups, and you kill thugs and gang members by using karate, judo, and wrestling moves. Although they look like clones to one another, they are completely different when you play them.

What I expect with game porting is like with the relationship with final fight and streets of rage. Each of those games suit their platform that they are actually on, and that the ports should be efficient on their own platform, and not on some other platform.

This is my reasoning for why exclusives are few and far between, and why PC gaming is “dying”, or at least not what it used to be, because they are technically playing a console game.