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(H0RSE) #41

You know how many people trying to defend themselves against muggers get shot with their own gun?
first off, this game isn’t called, “mug the unsuspecting couple…” It 2 factions going against each other…they know who the enemy is, and they practically shoot on site. It’s not like, “That guy looks like a nice…OMG! I’m getting mugged!” If I knew the guy down the street was going to mug me, I probably wouldn’t walk down that street.

Also, the factions in this game are obviously familiar with weapons from pistols, to SMG’s, to miniguns…I don’t think they are the type to be accidentally shot with their own gun. And besides, I’m talking about melee kills, not wrestling a gun out of someone’s hand and shooting them with it…

If its realism you’re worried about then meleeing gun users happens. There are circumstances where it works and others where its suicidal, but it happens.
It’s not so much realism as it is gameplay and fun. If you have a bunch of guns that can’t kill in OH, and a knife that can, then the gameplay is broken and it’s going to lead to a lot of frustration and headaches.

You were outnumbered, you were dead anyway.
Not really…I’ve been in fights vs 2, 3, or more people, just using guns, and have come out the victor.

You were moving too slow or not being aware enough which lead to someone being behind you. Being behind someone is practically an insta-kill so you were dead anyway.
First off, you are just stretching for any validity in your argument with this response. Second, I already addressed the being attacked from behind scenario:

Just like the countless times I’ve been shot at from behind, and turn around and killed him first.

And third, I’m going to break down your post and show you how ridiculous it is…

You were moving too slow…

Guess no one’s going to be the Heavy body type, cause from what I’ve heard, they are slow as s***. Guess no one’s going to be carrying big, two-handed guns, I mean they are too slow, they deserve to be insta-killed, right?

or not being aware enough which lead to someone being behind you.
This is just dumb…if you are assaulting an objective, and you are getting shot at from every direction, 180 degrees in front of you, why would you look behind you, and why would you punish that guy with an insta-kill for not looking behind him? And even if the player was super aware, even if he was clairvoyant, and knew someone was behind him, now his back is turned to a barrage of bullets. It wouldn’t matter if the guy sneaking up on him had a knife, a bazooka, or a rubber chicken, because the player who just turned around is screwed.

(Jamieson) #42

[QUOTE=Senethro;213968]You were outnumbered, you were dead anyway.

You were moving too slow or not being aware enough which lead to someone being behind you. Being behind someone is practically an insta-kill so you were dead anyway.[/QUOTE]

This is not true at all.

In many fights were I have been outnumbered say 2v1 or even 3v1 I have been able to dodge in such as way as to prevent all enemy players shooting at me at the same time. This often leads to the eneny shooting each other and me killing all of them or just being a superior shooter and headshoting them. This depends on the game but not all games are like COD were its 1 shot kill. This is from my experinces of ET and ETQW.

As for being back raped I can’t even count the amount of times someone has tried to sneak up on me, shot me only for me to turn around and blow them away with 3 headshots. Both situations have counters if there isn’t an instant kill, in conclusion instant kills make the game lame.

(Senethro) #43

Guys, seriously, you can’t use the fact that you can beat pub players 3v1 as an arguement against knifing. You shouldn’t win 3v1s at all, assuming you’re playing against equal players. They were so bad that knifing wouldn’t have helped them. If they weren’t bad they they would have just shot you.

You’re basically arguing against a rare situation when a competent player would have killed you anyway, but somehow a hitscan (i.e. undodgable) headshot and 2 bodyshots is “fair” in your opinions. On the other hand failing to stop someone without a ranged weapon from either moving to touching range quickly and noisily (in which case you weren’t aware enough) or slowly and stealthily (in which case you were moving too slow yourself as well as not being aware) is worthy . You should be able to see that.

You just dislike that you might get punished for your mistake in a way thats unfamiliar instead of being shot which would be more effective in nearly every circumstance.

Hes dead anyway. Hes in a big firefight, is outnumbered, has been out manoevured and positioned by the enemy. Oh, and he has an enemy behind him.

Just one of those should be enough to kill him.

You’re not arguing against insta-kill melee, you’re arguing against dumb players not dying when they deserve to.

(Nail) #44

knife insta-kill just leads to a bunch of “heros” running around with knives trying to prove how leet they are. They ruin the game for others and then have the nerve to exclaim “real men only use knives”, no thanks to insta-kill melee,

(MILFandCookies) #45

I would only make it an instant kill, if the player is copping melee from behind. :wink:
In front on situations, I would prefer it if its main use was to disorientate the player, or used as a finishing move.

(darthmob) #46

Come on guys instant kill backstabs are ok. They were fair in ET for several reasons:

  • it’s a fast paced game and you are rarely standing in one position looking in one direction for too long
  • there are both foot and weapon switch sounds. if someone wants to approach you silently he moves incredibly slow (see point before)
  • most of the knife kills in ET were deserved. either because of inattention from the victim or an ingenious apporach by the attacker

In my opinion instant kill backstabs would be fine in Brink as well. It has already been said that the knife is only available when using a one-handed weapon. Imagine the following situation: There’s a completely buffed heavy guy. He’s a walking fortress. Slow but he has got tons of HP and firepower. Now there comes a fast small guy. He doesn’t even bother shooting and just strafes, jumps and slides toward the big guy. Having nearly reached him he instantly pulls out his Call of Duty knife of Total Destruction and instantly kills the big guy. That would be totally lame!

On the other hand managing to flank the big guy and getting behind him would be a lot more difficult. Instant knife to the back is most likely a lot less lucky and harder to pull off. Less frustration for the big guy, more satisfaction for the small one. Just don’t make it a kill animation.

PS: Restricting backstabs to certain classes is just lame. What’s with the continuity? Just because I picked up that hacking tool I can’t stab someone in the back anymore? It doesn’t make sense in both realism and gameplay (not that I care about realism).

(murka) #47

I kinda agree yet i’ve experienced situations where i react quite late and see my backstabber, but he will still somehow backstab me in the face making it an instakill. At such situations i rather not have it at all.

(tokamak) #48

See that’s just raging against COD’s system. SH has the same idea of a one-hit kill knife that can’t be equiped but that’s implemented in a fun way, in a way it’s difficult to pull off.

And both ET’s have a completely different knife system and you know that. What’s wrong with those?

(darthmob) #49

[QUOTE=tokamak;214041]And both ET’s have a completely different knife system and you know that. What’s wrong with those?[/QUOTE]It takes a million hits to kill someone with the knife in ETQW. It’s like hitting them with an inflated rubber sword or with a spoon. I didn’t like that at all.

ET knife mechanics > CoD knife mechanics > ETQW knife mechanics
(based on what is most fun to play)

(tokamak) #50

I frequently finished off an opponent with a knife when my machine gun clip ran out. I think that knife is exactly right for players that don’t choice to specialise in melee. People who do should be able to have acces to all kinds of trics that make it easier, gun in one hand, knife in the other, backstabs, etc.

(H0RSE) #51

PS: Restricting backstabs to certain classes is just lame. What’s with the continuity?
it works fine for the spy in TF2.

(Nail) #52

in W:ET it was restricted to level 4 Covert

(Ryan) #53

[QUOTE=Senethro;213980]Guys, seriously, you can’t use the fact that you can beat pub players 3v1 as an arguement against knifing. You shouldn’t win 3v1s at all, assuming you’re playing against equal players. They were so bad that knifing wouldn’t have helped them. If they weren’t bad they they would have just shot you.

You’re basically arguing against a rare situation when a competent player would have killed you anyway, but somehow a hitscan (i.e. undodgable) headshot and 2 bodyshots is “fair” in your opinions. On the other hand failing to stop someone without a ranged weapon from either moving to touching range quickly and noisily (in which case you weren’t aware enough) or slowly and stealthily (in which case you were moving too slow yourself as well as not being aware) is worthy . You should be able to see that.

You just dislike that you might get punished for your mistake in a way thats unfamiliar instead of being shot which would be more effective in nearly every circumstance.

Hes dead anyway. Hes in a big firefight, is outnumbered, has been out manoevured and positioned by the enemy. Oh, and he has an enemy behind him.

Just one of those should be enough to kill him.

You’re not arguing against insta-kill melee, you’re arguing against dumb players not dying when they deserve to.[/QUOTE]

Have you seen knife actions in CoDMW?
People just charge into a group of people and they get insta killed.

Yea they are ALL lamers who should know better right?

PS: As a tip to anyone, don’t try to argue with Senethro, its pointless. Believe me I tried and I see the same thing about to happen here with this guy and his “reasoning”

(Senethro) #54

[QUOTE=Ryan;214357]Have you seen knife actions in CoDMW?
People just charge into a group of people and they get insta killed.

Yea they are ALL lamers who should know better right?
[/QUOTE]

If a guy can beat a group of players with melee when they all have access to melee as well, then the problem is with the players, not melee. Seriously, whats your point? Why aren’t they shooting him before he gets there then knifing him when he does?

I’d like to point out that MW2 with its extra lag, host advantage and until recently care package running made melee imba on some maps. It takes that much.

(Ryan) #55

Ok, then let’s say they ARE all noobs with no aim?

Would it be fair against noobs in Brink then? I thought you were all about a noob friendly game here.
But they die instantly if they can’t make 3 headshots in 0.1 sec.

(And then you say: “If they were noobs they would have died anyway”)

(Senethro) #56

If you already knew the right answer why did you post?

Melee users won’t be beating gun users unless the gun users are bad at the game. The insta-kill melee isn’t even available while holding your primary weapon so a player has to disadvantage themselves before they can even use it.

(tokamak) #57

Yeah, if you wait with a knife in a spawn point you can just run around knifing people and all they can do is either spray and teamkill or wait until you finished them. You’re basically in an environment where everyone is your shield.

(Qhullu) #58

[QUOTE=Senethro;214444]If you already knew the right answer why did you post?

Melee users won’t be beating gun users unless the gun users are bad at the game. The insta-kill melee isn’t even available while holding your primary weapon so a player has to disadvantage themselves before they can even use it.[/QUOTE]
while one of the things i love to do in et is backstab the dude who has been brutalizing our team from one of the few good spots for the mobile mountable mg (forgot the name, maybe mg42?). a button to stop a fight if it gets closerangey enough is just lame since those are one of the most fun kind of fights (if the netcode is good ofc). this instakill melee has been confirmed for brink?

(Senethro) #59

I can’t find where I learned anymore that so its probably best to regard it as old and out of date. Its maybe changed.

(DoubleDigit) #60

If I were to vote:
+1 for 1 button meelee.
+1 for selectable tool instead of use button.
+1 for dedicated grenade button.

The ‘do it all’ use button made you loose precious time in Quake Wars.
Another example of problematic ‘use’ button is BFBC2, where even if the ‘use’ button has only two functions, arm/disarm and pickup gear, there are plenty of situations where you are trying to arm/disarm something and you suddenly pickup gear from somebody dead near the objective. And there’s no shortage of dead bodies around the objectives. This is most annoying because when you pickup gear in BFBC2, you are actually changing class. Well, funny moments aside, still annoying.