PC controls - Keyboard layout

(Ryan) #181

[QUOTE=Qhullu;215597]the thing is though, in a fast paced game like et, when playing against players with years of experience, where brink too will eventually end up hopefully. sometimes you need to do things under less than ideal circumstances, and it’s is possible that a context sensitive system, however well designed and implemented, isn’t always better than knowing exactly what happens when you press some button. and the reason for that is context sensitivity.

a context sensitive system needs rules on which it bases its decisions, and all is fine when the situation the context sensitive button is pressed in clearly falls within a certain rule, according to both the player and the computer. but the problems arise in situations where the button is pressed in a situation where it is not clear which rule is in effect, like near the “border” area between two rules, or even when two rules overlap.

(i don’t know much about the classroles in brink on purpose so apologies if this is a crappy example, but it should illustrate the point sufficiently) for example there might be a rule that says that if you press the button when near a teammate, you drop an ammopack, and a rule that says you zip towards a destroyable door if you point at or near it and press the button … it’s possible to imagine a situation where those two rules might overlap at the moment the button is pressed, but how does the computer know if the player pointed at that door on purpose or not?

so to build a context sensitive system which always does what the player wants, it needs to be done in a way that it is never possible for two rules to overlap, and to never have a border they share, which means that there must areas within the game where the context sensitive button does nothing.[/QUOTE]

Read this again!

It is a perfect explanation in what cases a context system might/will screw up.

(Voxie) #182

KEYBOARDÉMON - GOTTA BIND 'EM ALL!

(ED209) #183

Hmmm as a ETQW med/tech I always pre-select to get those combat revives happening. Amazing what you can do with a pair of paddles. Have to see how the Game mechanics work I guess.

(.Chris.) #184

Like reviving old threads?

(Humate) #185

Since the thread has been revived by ed209’s paddles, i may as well contribute to the thread… cough

Personal preference for PC controls, is a control system that minimises key/button holds.
Mouse1 mouse2 wasd movement keys and crouch to me is the max. Its perfect.

When you introduce nades, and tools that require key holds on the keyboard - it ****s up movement, and feels unco. So obviously the solution would be to bind nades and tools to mouse3 and mouse4 but it would mean that the marvellous mission menu will probably never be used. Oh noes! Doesnt matter I guess. :wink:

(Nail) #186

use Mouse5

(Humate) #187

I guess the sarcasm about the mission menu wasnt detected.
Mouse5 will be bound to items. :slight_smile:

(Crytiqal) #188

[QUOTE=Humate;251318]Since the thread has been revived by ed209’s paddles, i may as well contribute to the thread… cough

Personal preference for PC controls, is a control system that minimises key/button holds.
Mouse1 mouse2 wasd movement keys and crouch to me is the max. Its perfect.

When you introduce nades, and tools that require key holds on the keyboard - it ****s up movement, and feels unco. So obviously the solution would be to bind nades and tools to mouse3 and mouse4 but it would mean that the marvellous mission menu will probably never be used. Oh noes! Doesnt matter I guess. :wink:[/QUOTE]

Exactly, but the sad thing is you have to hold G when throwing a grenade.
And since it automaticly primes the grenade you have to be at the exact correct spot when pressing this button, rather to move yourself in position with pre-selecting.

But I am sick and tired of trying to explain this, or even where a setting could cater for my needs for weaponbank vs autoprime, which gets shot down so please let this thread die.

(brbrbr) #189

buy decent mouse.
like CM Sentinel ADvance, Saitek R.A.T, A4T Oscar and etc[remain unanounced models/brands provide both worser quality products for more price].

(H0RSE) #190

[QUOTE=brbrbr;251964]buy decent mouse.
like CM Sentinel ADvance, Saitek R.A.T, A4T Oscar and etc[remain unanounced models/brands provide both worser quality products for more price].[/QUOTE]
Meh, I prefer trackballs.

(Senethro) #191

You play FPS with trackballs?

(H0RSE) #192

Yes, this one to be exact:

It is much easier, comfortable and more accurate moving just a finger, opposed to my whole hand, wrist, arm, etc. It’s also easier with button presses as well - for example, holding down the RMB (say for ironsights) while trying to aim and shoot with a mouse, can be a bit difficult. On my trackball, the buttons are independent from the ball (which is the only thing that moves) so performing an action like this is simple.

(Crytiqal) #193

How would you fire your weapon if it’s used for moving around?

Ok you just edited your post after I replied, lol

How would it be difficult to hold down the RMB since it’s position relative to the mouse doesn’t change?
The buttons are not related to movement either…
I am just curious how you would move the ball, use ironsight and shoot at the same time?

One would wonder why none of the pro’s would use a trackball

(H0RSE) #194

How would it be difficult to hold down the RMB since it’s position relative to the mouse doesn’t change?
The buttons are not related to movement either…

Holding down a button and moving the mouse are connected, since you are moving the device the button is located on. So if you are holding down the RMB button, while essentially moving the button to aim, it becomes increasingly difficult to remain accurate, since you are moving the object you are holding down and periodically using the LMB to shoot, which applies pressure to different areas of the mouse, making it cumbersome to remain control of. This is a big reason why ironsights are usually set to a toggle on PC.

my trackball does not have this problem, since only the ball itself is moving, the button stays stationary, making easier to remain in control while aiming and shooting.

I am just curious how you would move the ball, use ironsight and shoot at the same time?

My trackball is arranged so that you move the ball with you index and/or middle finger, and use your thumb and pinkie for the L and RMB, respectively. So, in a situation where I need to hold down the RMB, my pinkie would do that, I would aim using index and middle fingers, and fire using my thumb. The whole time this is happening, the device remains stationary and only my fingers are moving.

One would wonder why none of the pro’s would use a trackball

Most likely, because there are no “pro trackball” companies out their to endorse them. After using them, I refuse to use a mouse anymore - they seem inferior.

(Nail) #195

used one of these for a long time, tried it for FPS with Delta Force 2, could never get z axis sensitivity to what I liked, but today’s input devices have better software so I might try again

(SockDog) #196

I finally picked up a trackball for my laptop and have to say while weird and requiring some some adjustment I found it many times better to use than a controller and that was on the first few plays. Really am stunned that there are no trackballs in console controllers, they’d solve a huge amount of the issues of compensating for analogue sticks.

(Cankor) #197

What about this Eagle Eye thing? If it is precise as a mouse it seems like it would mean the end controllers on FPS’s. Not a console guy, but is there some huge outcry from consol players about it not being fair?

(H0RSE) #198

There’s also the XIM3 for 360.

(Nail) #199

The Atari 2600 and 5200 had trakballs as peripherals and the Apple “Piipen” had one on it’s contoller

(SockDog) #200

But you shouldn’t have to rely on hardware hacks to play a game with alternate controllers. If anything dedicated support would mean you could at least filter players. But again, unless developers are pushing things like mouse support on the PS3 and that support is implemented in an intelligent and fair way (Oh I do hope this is a secret feature of Brink), then console players will live in happy ignorant bliss forever, which IMO is sad for gaming in general.

[quote=Nail;252029]The Atari 2600 and 5200 had trakballs as peripherals and the Apple “Piipen” had one on it’s contoller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pippinpaddle.jpg[/quote]

That’s what gets me. The technology isn’t new, it fits extremely well with the controller ergonomic and with new, more complicated user interfaces a better tactile control would really expand the experience. Only other thing I see is, as with the rumoured PSP2, we’ll start getting touch sensitive surfaces on or under controllers. Not sure if that’s going to help on FPS games though, I hate them on laptops but perhaps in the ergonomics of a controller/handheld it’ll work exceedingly well.