Nader Thoughts

(MAOCUBO) #61

the nader is the most op merc ever, it’s like the tuber noob with one man army pro in MW2, it makes no sense, it makes the game unplayable when there is more then one nader in the game, it’s just a tube fest, for you guys saying it’s a counter for healing station you couldn’t be more wrong, it makes no sense at all, it’s easy to destroi healling, you don’t need 80HP of destroy something that can be destroyed by 2-3 shots, you can kill Aura A MERK WITH one tube, it would make more sense some kind of emp granade to destroy a healing station…

(Lumi) #62

That would be an awesome power. Something to shut down turrets, stations and vassili’s sensor, etc…

(Terr) #63

Temporary gadget shutdown would be a neat Phantom ability, to get past mines etc…

(GregHouseMD) #64

It’s easy to blow up a healing station with bullets, sure.

Unless it’s in cover. Unless someone stands in front of it. Unless you get shot first by the guy watching it. Unless there’s two of them. Unless … You see where I’m going with this?

We’ve tried this out before. Earlier in the Beta, when a lot of people didn’t even have Fragger ( and Nader wasn’t in yet ), do you know how much of a pain this was?

(Szakalot) #65

[quote=“snowMonkey;18037”]It’s easy to blow up a healing station with bullets, sure.

Unless it’s in cover. Unless someone stands in front of it. Unless you get shot first by the guy watching it. Unless there’s two of them. Unless … You see where I’m going with this?

We’ve tried this out before. Earlier in the Beta, when a lot of people didn’t even have Fragger ( and Nader wasn’t in yet ), do you know how much of a pain this was?[/quote]

truth be told, we also didn’t have red auras for enemy healing stations, making them harder to identify&spot.

(GregHouseMD) #66

[quote=“Szakalot;18038”]
truth be told, we also didn’t have red auras for enemy healing stations, making them harder to identify&spot.[/quote]

I’m not sure that’s as important when three enemies are camping a healing station and you want to, you know, remove them.

(Hazzy) #67

Hi,

Iv played the nader for about an hour now, dont really like the merc personally to play with. Do think its a good merc for crowd controlle to push back the people. BUT on the map with the 2 containers (have no idea what its called) a nader or 2 can just spam the objectives and its impossible to eather set the bomb or defuse the bomb, so maybe less nades to shoot and a higher cooldown time to make it less OP in these cases. Still, its not to easy to shoot people from a distance and get kills upclose he is OP but youl have to learn that you have to stay away from him.

Secondly the marty drop… now that is can be OP! Since the can just lay there and choose when to set off the marty. There is no chance in hell you can ever knife a nader for a finish and no chance to get away from them if the drop it cause it goes off in less then a second. The can even lay there and wait for some 1 to come around the corner and pick out a kill. (yes this has happend…) Suggestion of myn is to make the marty drop so that the have to choose before the die if the want to use the skill and if the use it, it drops instantly on death or a time frame of 3/5 seconds to use when your haf death on the floor instead of a unlimmited time to use it.

Just my 2 cents :smile:

(GregHouseMD) #68

[quote=“pinkRoad;18125”]Hi,
Secondly the marty drop… now that is can be OP! Since the can just lay there and choose when to set off the marty. There is no chance in hell you can ever knife a nader for a finish and no chance to get away from them if the drop it cause it goes off in less then a second. [/quote]

You said you’d played Nader for an hour. Which is probably why you’re so wrong about this. Because the window for gibbing Nader and preventing Martyrdom is actually extremely generous. It takes something like half a second from going down before it can even be triggered, and it’s canceled if Nader is gibbed before it goes off. If you’re close to Nader when she goes down, you can easily pull out your melee weapon and finish her off, and still have time to spare.

(Lumi) #69

[quote=“snowMonkey;18037”]It’s easy to blow up a healing station with bullets, sure.

Unless it’s in cover. Unless someone stands in front of it. Unless you get shot first by the guy watching it. Unless there’s two of them. Unless … You see where I’m going with this?

We’ve tried this out before. Earlier in the Beta, when a lot of people didn’t even have Fragger ( and Nader wasn’t in yet ), do you know how much of a pain this was?[/quote]

So if the point of a Nader is to blow up healing stations, there is still no reason for a lac-40 to inflict 80HP of damage! If it’s about destroying the station then 20HP damage is enough as aura’s station takes increased damage from explosions. In the end if Nader is supposed to be a counter to Aura, then making it so that a single lac-40 can destroy a healing station plus oneshot any aura’s in the vicinity plus leaving other mercs low happy for you to come in all by yourself and get a quad kill, that’s just ridiculous.

I understand the need for a nader to destroy a healing station but then it should have to still fight a regular fight against the surviving mercs. Right now, Nader is able to get multi kills over and over…

Now you also say that trying to remove a group of people from a healing station spot is a pain, but that’s how it’s supposed to be. As a single player you shouldn’t be able to kill three or more people camping a healing station! Now even the ods, add a healing station close to your offensive position and be three people attacking at the same time and you’ll see that destroying the healing station isn’t as bad or a pain as you would like us to believe.

(Gi.Am) #70

Naders point is not blowing up the healing stations.
She isn’t a support!

Well technicaly she is… fire support, means she supports by killing.

She is a damage dealer like fragger. Her whole point is to thin out the opposing team so that her mechanic has a higher chance reaching the objectives. And while fragger is better at killing a team that is mobile and spread out, nader excels at breaking down turtled up opposition (which also means destroying healing stations, mines and turrets).

The only ones that should be able to oppose her, on a 1 on 1 basis are other fire supports (and snipers on long range).
Her mechanics are quite fair tho. Sure if she gets you with the nadelauncher you lose most of the time. But if you get past that or flank her or catch her on cooldown. You will have atleast a fair fight if not the upper hand by default (she is weaker than sawbones after all). Thats more than a Fragger gives you :wink: .

(GregHouseMD) #71

@satisfyingCove

I’m getting bored with this. If Nader completely dominating the enemy team is as common as you say, show us some screenshots. Give us some examples of this happening.

(watsyurdeal) #72

That might not work, because that’s really dependent on the skill of the player. And a lot of people kinda need to man up and learn how to play.

(GregHouseMD) #73

If Nader completely dominating game after game is as common as is being claimed here, it shouldn’t be a problem at all.

(Lumi) #74

@snowMonkey

Nader is OP, if you don’t realize it, too bad. But by the time the next update comes out, the ECHO system will have shown the devs that there is an unhealthy kill ratio tipping in the favor of Nader and the’ll nerf her… So in some way this conversation is mute.

(watsyurdeal) #75

[quote=“satisfyingCove;18361”]

Nader is OP, if you don’t realize it, too bad. But by the time the next update comes out, the ECHO system will have shown the devs that there is an unhealthy kill ratio tipping in the favor of Nader and the’ll nerf her… So in some way this conversation is mute.[/quote]

Heh, classic

I’m right you’re wrong, I’m not even gonna argue against you because in reality I have nothing to back up my arguments.

First of all, let me explain to you the definition of overpowered, that term is reserved for something that literally controls the game’s meta, and more importantly in a negative way.

Perfect example, the Wrangler in TF2, an Engineer unlock. It replaced the pistol, which was already nigh useless, and gave the Engineer increased DPS and a shield for his sentry while he could manually control it.

However, people though it was ok, because most people didn’t know how to use it right, while people who were plenty competent with it basically stopped the game.

Now, does nader spam stop the game? No, if anything, I wanna see these so called games where it actually is a serious issue. Because the reality is, if there’s more than one of any Merc it’s technically class spam, and that is an issue that can’t be fixed without class limits. Why nerf a single Merc because too many of them is an issue? You can’t control that, that is a player choice.

So, the next thing is to introduce viable counters, and right now, the only thing I’d say that doesn’t have a viable counter are cooked grenades from Fragger.

You want to counter Nader? Learn to dodge, learn to aim, that simple. With as light on health as she is and as accurate as weapons can be in the right hands you have no excuse. Learn to play before crying wolf and expecting a nerf. Because in my opinion, none of the mercs are op, just certain aspects need to be tweaked, like how many times I can be revived in a row, or whether or not I should be able to cook nades or not.

(Lumi) #76

First of all, I refer to you to all my previous posts in this thread as to why Nader is OP, sorry if I get bored when I’m forced to repeat myself.

Then, Fragger’s cooked grenades are not a concern as he has only that as a power.

Finally how are you supposed to counter a lac-40 to the face as Aura. It’s insta kill, with little to no skill required from Nader. Even a sniper requires to aim properly to get an insta-kill.

(watsyurdeal) #77

[quote=“satisfyingCove;18376”]
Finally how are you supposed to counter a lac-40 to the face as Aura. It’s insta kill, with little to no skill required from Nader. Even a sniper requires to aim properly to get an insta-kill.[/quote]

By not sucking at dodging

If you are moving left and right, and that’s it, or running in straight line, YEA, you are going to get hit.

You’re playing with people who’ve been playing Quake and Enemy Territory for years.

Don’t even pretend like the majority of people who play Nader and land directs are noobs, you can tell someone isn’t great with her when they are firing as fast as possible.

If they are taking time to actually hit you with directs, it’s not skill less, they are watching your movements.

Plus, again, Nader shuts down Aura, Bushwhacker’s Sentries, the EV, and even Proxy, but she can still survive with 10 hp.

Saying it takes no skill implies little effort, but getting directs on the fastest class in the game right now…no, that takes some skill, despite what you think.

(GregHouseMD) #78

@majesticClue
Don’t grenades also take time to arm? If you’re too close, it’s only like 20 damage.

(watsyurdeal) #79

[quote=“snowMonkey;18383”]@majesticClue
Don’t grenades also take time to arm? If you’re too close, it’s only like 20 damage.[/quote]

Fragger’s?

Yea but the thing is you can cook behind cover then walk out and toss them, and the victim has no clue that they were in danger.

To me, I feel like if Fragger lost the ability to cook nades he’d still be fine. His health and weapons allow him to deal fantastic damage, at least in my experience.

Nader’s you can’t arm, it’s fire and forget, but they have direct hits.

(GregHouseMD) #80

@majesticClue

Nader’s. Fragger’s ability is impossible to miss with if you know what you’re doing. Much more efficient than Nader’s.

I mean the grenade launcher: If your target is too close, the grenade doesn’t detonate on impact - or does it?