Nader Thoughts

(watsyurdeal) #81

I…actually am not sure…

But I typically try to make directs at targets who are about, I would say 10-15 feet away, otherwise if they are close I just blaze bullets to their face.

You might need to ask someone else

(GregHouseMD) #82

Yeah. I agree with you, though: Unless enemies are stationary, direct hits are difficult.

(Zenity) #83

This thread is becoming a bit ridiculous to be honest. Everywhere else the only Nader related discussion is how she can be buffed to perhaps make her at least a little bit viable, yet here you are having a serious discussion about how OP she is.

The developers know the truth, not just because of Echo. So like you said, there is nothing more to discuss about this and if the devs actually end up nerfing her, we’ll all happily eat our hats. :slight_smile:

And no, her grenades do not explode on direct hit in close range. There is a sizeable delay before her grenades are primed, which is generally always enough time to dodge it unless you get stuck somewhere, or the grenade was shot brilliantly over a long range.

(Lumi) #84

@snowMonkey & @Zenity

There must be a bug! I saw the Nader introductury video and also everone seems to agree that if shot at someone from too close the lac-40 will drop to the floor and have a delay. This is however not the case! And that is what I call a no skill kill. When a Nader oneshots me from a distance with a lac-40, yeah that’s skill, but when it happens at a distance where a shotgun would be the most efficient tool, then that’s a bug.

I have yet to recieve a direct close quarters nader grenade that wouldn’t immediately exlopde as advertised. I guess I’m off to the bug reporting forums…

(SchwaD) #85

the problem of nader is not that she is OP. I think she is well balanced. The problem is that her spammy nades are so annoying.

I think most of the people playing this game will have a competitive game where skill compared with great teamwork will lead to success.

Making this game to a explosive festival will ruin it.

I am pretty sure that nobody will complain when MP’s and all the normal weapons will be the main part of this game and all the explosives are only additonally to block an attacking wave or maybe reduce the wave if they are inattentive.

Hopefully SD will find the right balance between the skilled part of the game using the weapons and the other part of the game using all the special abilities like stationary gun, mines, grenades & grenades launchers and all the other things which will be released.

If the spammy part of this game will get to big / to important for win the matches, sooner or later I will loose the fun of the game and will quit it (;

I think limiting every merc in MM to 1 per team is a good start. Maybe later on when some hundreds MM’s or cups are played the as OP identified special abbilities should be nerfed. At the moment or by public play its not really possible to fint out what is OP cause the skill of all the players are so different and a good player can be OP with nearly every merc.

Hopefully this game will not end like another TF2 (:

(Zenity) #86

[quote=“satisfyingCove;18410”]@snowMonkey & @Zenity

There must be a bug! I saw the Nader introductury video and also everone seems to agree that if shot at someone from too close the lac-40 will drop to the floor and have a delay. This is however not the case! And that is what I call a no skill kill. When a Nader oneshots me from a distance with a lac-40, yeah that’s skill, but when it happens at a distance where a shotgun would be the most efficient tool, then that’s a bug.

I have yet to recieve a direct close quarters nader grenade that wouldn’t immediately exlopde as advertised. I guess I’m off to the bug reporting forums…[/quote]

I’ve played Nader long enough to know that it works as advertised, the grenades are completely useless in close combat. I also never encountered a Nader blowing me up from close range. Frankly I think that your problem must be lying elsewhere.

(watsyurdeal) #87

[quote=“Zenity;18420”]

I’ve played Nader long enough to know that it works as advertised, the grenades are completely useless in close combat. I also never encountered a Nader blowing me up from close range. Frankly I think that your problem must be lying elsewhere.[/quote]

Perfectly fine with me since the Crotizini is awesome :slight_smile:

(Szakalot) #88

@Zenity @snowMonkey @satisfyingCove @majesticClue
so to clear out some of the ‘facts’ that have been mentioned so far.

  • direct hit deals 90-95hp damage. It kills Proxy in one hit as well (not just Aura). It should be 80hp damage from the explosion, plus 10-15hp ‘blunt’ damage of the projectile hitting your face
  • there is a minimum distance the nade has to fly before becoming primed and exploding on impact. If you are to close to your enemy, the direct hit will deal the ‘blunt’ damage, but the nade will bounce off and explode after the fuse expires. The distance isnt that large, but its significant if the nader is being charged/ambushed
  • close combat is where the nader is the strongest! However, she needs the enemy confined to a choke, as otherwise dodging nades becomes too easy. If you engage nader in close combat either get close enough for nades to be unviable, or gain some distance/open area to be able to dodge the nades
(Lumi) #89

@Szakalot

Unfortunately right now the distance the nades need to fly to be primed is almost non-existant.

Also, now that I really think about it, why do the lac-40s explode on direct impact with a person but ricochet when hitting a wall? It should be either or. Not just using whatever goes towards the naders favor.

Although Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2’s grenade launcher was OP it was at least consistent. If close it wouldn’t explode on impact, be it an enemy or a wall. While on distance it would always explode on contact.

Right now the lac-40’s alway ricochet of walls and they only explode on contact when direct hitting enemies past a certain distance cap. In my opinion should be all or nothing…

(Szakalot) #90

who cares about realism? it allows nader to fill in more than one role

(Lumi) #91

So according to your logic it would make perfect sense if Aura’s station would electrocute enemies, paralizing them and inflicting damage. I’m sure if we pull our heads together we can come up with plenty of different ways to make all other mercs have more than one role in the most overpowered way possible! Let’s all take a seet and have a go at it, shall we?

(Szakalot) #92

??

Its a matter of design/gameplay decision, not what ‘makes sense’. A merc with a red-alert style tesla turret would be fun to use for sure!

Are you saying nader is overpowered? why? cause she can spam a few nades?

Nader would be simply unviable if her nades did not deal direct damage, you would need at least twice as fast rate of fire, for her to retain any kind of usefulness, as most players know how to move away from red flashy eggz of deathz

(GregHouseMD) #93

Well, that’s ironic, coming from you. I mean, you seem to be under the impression that explosives are overpowered by default. Oddly enough missing the fact that there’s a merc currently in the game whose destructive potential is far higher than Nader’s.

Nevermind that, though. Discussion’s been thoroughly derailed, and I think that’s my cue to leave.

EDIT: It appears Nader has been buffed already. I’m not sure. I died to Martyrdom just now - after gibbing an opponent. If the grenade sticks around now, awesome!

(Lumi) #94

@snowMonkey
the grenade vanishing after gibbing has always been a bug and not intended. They increased martyrdom grenade fuse by 0.2 seconds though.

@Szakalot

I don’t mind the grenades exploding o ninpact, but right now it happens at a very close range. Ends up being the same as a shotgun. Would have prefered it remained specifically for further away. Anyway with the buff now they seem to want Nader to become more of a DPS dealing machine, rather than support for Aura station removal…

(GregHouseMD) #95

Buffs all around, it seems. More grenades ( 4 to 5 ), more HP( ?100 - 110? ).

(Zenity) #96

Longer fuse though, the fuse is already the main reason why her grenades are as frightening as a panda pup.

Keep in mind that she is a pure assault, she gets ALL her XP from killing enemies, without actually having any serious combat prowess. Her grenades need to have a meaningful impact on the game, or else she is a dead weight.

Regarding realistic physics, if you want realism, I would suggest that grenades drop at players’ feet instead of bouncing away from them if directly hit in close combat. Right now aiming at enemies in close combat is a bad idea because of the bounce, if grenades would stay put instead, this would become a bit more interesting.

The update is looking pretty good so far, I’ll try her out again and see how it goes.

(GregHouseMD) #97

I don’t know, longer fuse seems good. It means martyrdom because more useful as area denial.

(Szakalot) #98

Thank you for the ‘seem’ as I definitely do not think that. Indeed, fragger’s nades have been OP for a while, and Ive stated that since their change, back in November I believe. Fortunately the present fly-speed nerf should put it in the right spot.

EDIT: It appears Nader has been buffed already. I’m not sure. I died to Martyrdom just now - after gibbing an opponent. If the grenade sticks around now, awesome!

here is the rundown of the recent changes to nader:

Increased health to 110hp (from 100)

This is to help her better fulfill her role of clearing out defensive positions which often requires her to expose herself to incoming fire

Reduced movement speed by ~2.5%

Matching / compensating for the slight increase in health

Increased maximum Grenade Launcher Nade count to 5 (from 4) and reduced cooldown time per Nade to 7s (from 8)

These changes are to partially compensate for the two below, but also makes her a little more effective at clearing out defences

Reduced velocity of grenade launcher projectiles by ~30%

Grenade Launcher 'Nades maintain a similar trajectory but now travel slower, giving victims a little more time to react

Increased grenade launcher grenade fuse time to 1.7s (from 1.4s)

This is to compensate for the slower travel time, still giving them a similar overall range

Martyrdom can no-longer be cancelled by gibbing Nader before it detonates

Previously Martyrdom became largely useless at close range and was not immediately obvious or easily explained

Martyrdom detonation time increased to 0.9s (from 0.7s)

To give players a little more time to escape since they can no longer cancel it by gibbing Nader

I havent played the patch yet, my impressions are:

  • it will be easier for new players to use Nader against other new players (more nades, shorter cooldown - more nade spam)
  • Nader will be much harder to use against good players (slower fly speed, even longer fuse)
  • Nader got pushed more towards the AoE denial, rather than direct combat nades-to-the-facezz merc
  • martyrdom got buffed overall (you cant try to gib with the knife anymore, but it will be easier to get away from downed naders - overall this change will make martyrdom more useful, esp. against better players (it was pretty useless against most good players))
(GregHouseMD) #99

@Szakalot
I wasn’t referring to you. You’re generally right about most things. :slight_smile:

(watsyurdeal) #100

Seems like to me I oughta give Nader a good shake, seems like she’d be better for me than Fragger.

He’s bulky and everything sure, but I like speed, and having just enough to get around and rush the hell out of people.