Mouse acceleration at Dirty Bomb

(Ghosthree3) #41

I’m not saying you can’t play without it, because you absolutely can. Some of the best aimers in the world don’t use it. Some of them do. To say it interferes with muscle memory is actually hilarious to me though. To me muscle memory being both speed and distance makes a lot more sense than training it to ignore speed.

When you throw a ball does it go the same distance every time no matter how fast you throw it as long as you start and end the throwing action at the same points? No. Moving faster makes the ball go further.

(Jurmabones) #42

Moving your mouse faster also makes your cursor move faster, even with accel off. The thing is that the rate of increase in cursor/crosshair movement directly corresponds to the rate of increase in your mouse movement. With accel off, you are making it so your cursor directly reflects the exact movement of your mouse/hand. It’s obvious your “muscle memory” will take to that much better than having accel on.

(Ghosthree3) #43

No. No it doesn’t. That’s what accel is. With all accel properly turned off your cursor will move the same distance on the screen if you move the mouse 10cm at 1m/s or 1km/s.

(Jurmabones) #44

I’m sorry to say this but you’re extremely confused. Speed=/=acceleration. Acceleration is an increase to the rate at which speed is gained (or velocity to be precise, but this isn’t a physics class so we won’t be nitpicky about speed vs. velocity because we both know precisely what we are talking about at this point).

For example: I move my mouse at a rate of 1 inch per second. My dpi is set up so that for every 1 inch my hand/mouse moves, the cursor moves 1 inch. If I double the velocity of my hand movement to two inches per second, my cursor will move two inches per second. Moving my mouse faster also makes my cursor move faster.

Do you understand?

(Ghosthree3) #45

I have absolutely no confusion on the matter at all. By acceleration I am referring to what the computer is doing, not the user. You literally said this,

Which is just wrong.

You may have meant “Moving your mouse further also makes your cursor faster” which is true.

(Jurmabones) #46

Actually you are wrong. I’m sorry to hear you can’t comprehend extremely basic concepts. Until you can do that you should really stop arguing in such topics.

(Ghosthree3) #47

“Lol I’m right and you’re wrong and so anything you say is simply not worth reading.”

Go fuck yourself. I can’t believe I wasted my time debating with one of you types. To me you’re basically screaming the Earth is flat, covering your ears and yelling loudly whenever someone tries to talk to you.

I’m done, I shall not now nor ever respond to you again in this thread, thanks for letting me know what kind of person you are.

(Jurmabones) #48

You’re literally arguing that if I move my hand/mouse faster my cursor will continue to move at the same rate.

There’s a reason you’re upset, name-calling and making ironic and exaggerated similes. It’s because you’re wrong and your ego is wounded.

If I had known you were so fragile I wouldn’t have pointed out something embarrassingly obvious to you. Hopefully you won’t be so rude to people trying to help you grasp basic concepts in the future.

Take care.

(N8o) #49

Calm it down there people. You’re arguing an opinion. Not a fact of science. It’s okayy… Shhhhhh

(Ghosthree3) #50

You know, I was wrong, I was wrong to ever say I’d never talk back. I simply can’t do it and I’ll never do it again.

As long as you move the same distance both times then your cursor will move the same distance regardless of how fast you move the mouse. That’s the whole point of not having acceleration.

Having the cursor move faster when your mouse moves faster is the entire point of acceleration. If you don’t understand that you don’t know what mouse acceleration actually is. It seems like you are very for mouse acceleration.

Actually the cursor moving further when the mouse moves faster is a fact of mouse acceleration. This is not about whether acceleration is better or not, I would never try and tell someone it absolutely is better for everyone. It depends on the person.

This is about him saying that without acceleration the mouse will move further when you the mouse moves faster. Which is just wrong, because that’s the entire point.

(Jurmabones) #51

I understand that. But distance isn’t the same thing as speed, just like speed isn’t the same thing as acceleration. So the statement “If I move my mouse faster, my cursor moves faster” is absolutely true.

If I double the rate at which my hand/mouse moves (if I accelerate my own movement) then my mouse will follow suit because I have no software that adds extra, artificial acceleration.

Have you calmed down enough to not curse at me and actually digest what I am saying? Do you see why you were wrong?

Also:

I never said this. Seriously, learn to read through a post before mashing out your reply to it.

(Ghosthree3) #52

[quote=“Jurmabones;70697”]I understand that. But distance isn’t the same thing as speed, just like speed isn’t the same thing as acceleration. So the statement “If I move my mouse faster, my cursor moves faster” is absolutely true.

If I double the rate at which my hand/mouse moves (if I accelerate my own movement) then my mouse will follow suit because I have no software that adds extra, artificial acceleration.[/quote]
Well no shit? That’s basic physics, the mouse doesn’t have a fixed speed that it moves at regardless of input. Why would you even bring that up? I don’t begin to see the relevance to a discussion about mouse acceleration.

If that’s what you meant the whole time then yeah, of course you’re right. I assumed you were talking about distance because there’s simply no reason for you to bring that up.

Mouse acceleration is about cursor distance travelled being relative to mouse travel speed.

(Jurmabones) #53

[quote=“Ghosthree3;70698”][quote=“Jurmabones;70697”]I understand that. But distance isn’t the same thing as speed, just like speed isn’t the same thing as acceleration. So the statement “If I move my mouse faster, my cursor moves faster” is absolutely true.

If I double the rate at which my hand/mouse moves (if I accelerate my own movement) then my mouse will follow suit because I have no software that adds extra, artificial acceleration.[/quote]
Well no shit? That’s basic physics, the mouse doesn’t have a fixed speed that it moves at regardless of input. Why would you even bring that up? I don’t begin to see the relevance to a discussion about mouse acceleration.

If that’s what you meant the whole time then yeah, of course you’re right. I assumed you were talking about distance because there’s simply no reason for you to bring that up.[/quote]

Quit back tracking. You straight up said the statement “If I move my mouse faster my cursor will move faster” is wrong/false.

(Gi.Am) #54

Go tell that to every Quake pro. I’m sure they could use your insight to up their game.[/quote]
Please don’t argue this.

Mouse accel is impractical, period.

It completely interferes and messes with your brains ability to learn and develop muscle memory when aiming. After long periods of time you can learn to play with mouse accel but without it, it’s way faster to learn and you are way more consistent.

[/quote]

Interesting, got any scientific papers on this?

I mean sure, not having to train your brain/muscles to also account for speed differences is propably easier to pick up. But I kinda doubt that adjusting to accel takes much longer than a month tops (tho, without proper studies, it is just a hunch based on every other kind of training).

However, I think the benefit of accel. is pretty clear.
With no accel. You use one single sensitivity. For alot of players and games that is just fine. You experiment till you find that perfect sens. Under which you perform best and thats it. No accel. will be better in that case, since it needs less control, and easily allows you to get reproducable results independent of the speed of your movement.

Accel seems to be great tho if you feel that there is no golden sensitivity setting, if you constantly transition between situations where lower sens. would be better and those where high sens would be benefitial.
Sure you could setup a dpi switch and in situations that have a clear transition (like sniping) that would work great aswell. But if you need situational on the fly change I can see the use of accel.

(Ghosthree3) #55

I’m not back tracking shit. My stance has always been that mouse accel is increased cursor distance covered over faster mouse distance covered. If I said that it’s because I interpreted what you said as distance because there is no reason to bring up the fact that your cursor moves faster when you move your mouse faster without accel. Because it’s also true with accel. It has no relevance to the discussion at all, next time you write something like that I guess I’ll just ignore it instead.

(Jurmabones) #56

I am obviously arguing what I believe based on what I’ve experienced. Please cut the crap about facts/science and everything else. I’m not telling anyone they haven’t had their own experiences or don’t think what they think. I’m telling people what I think. This became an unusually touchy subject for some mouse accel users so I felt like I had to throw in this “disclaimer.”

To my mind, your own body has natural acceleration. When a situation arises where you need to move faster, your hand will naturally move faster. The rate increase in your own movement is already acceleration and it is translated directly and naturally into your cursor movement when you have all mouse acceleration off. With acceleration on this is not the case.

What specific increase in time would a particular individual take to learn aiming without mouse accel compared to with mouse accel? No one in this thread could realistically tell you. Everyone has their own notion to being adapted to something, or what can be considered proficiency.

The degree to which we would have to monitor and quantify everything we do just to come up with a completely fact-based answer is impractical on so many levels. Of course everything we’re arguing is more or less backed by anecdotes and individual perceptions, that’s inevitable.

The point is, it’s obvious to many people from personal experience it takes longer to adjust to using mouse acceleration than to not using it. Can we “factually” back this up completely following the scientific method and with completely documented evidence? NO! Neither can people who claim accel is just as easy to learn, so stop bring up this facts plz nonsense.

From my own experience, when I was much, much younger and not knowledgeable about things like dpi, mouse acceleration, competitive communities in video games, etc., I used accel. Why? I didn’t know it was there. I just figured a mouse is a mouse. That crap is default on most operating systems and in most games. You have to know about its existence in the first place to be able to disable it.

The day I learned about mouse accel and turned it off is the day I became good at video games on the PC. It took me years and years to be mediocre at PC games from using accel but it only took me a week or so to fully adjust to having zero mouse acceleration and see a substantial improvement to my mechanical skill in games.

Even now I can dramatically change my DPI or in-game sensitivity and adjust to it within 20 or 30 minutes of playing just because I am not using mouse accel. (Just the other night I went from 18 sensitivity and 1800 dpi to 6 sensitivity and 1000 dpi and was matching my typical performance after a couple rounds of playing.) I remember “back in the day” when I used accel that changing sensitivity in the game would ensure I was bad for at least a week.

I know everyone is different so perhaps I am just lucky… but can anyone with mouse acceleration turned on honestly say they could do something like go from 18 sens/1800 dpi to 6 sens/1000 dpi and still play as well within 30 minutes? Because I would like to see that. Cutting your in-game sensitivity by 67% and your dpi by 45% at the same time and playing just as well as before within 30 minutes.

(Ghosthree3) #57

That’s probably true, that doesn’t mean the end result is bad.

And you should, default accel - especially the type Windows implements - is terrible. Most games do not get it right.

And that’s fine, but like you said, anecdotal.

This is also the case with properly implemented accel actually. One player I know of is able to do so in mere seconds with accel.

This guy does it in this video from 16:40 to 19:20 with 3 different sensitivities, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmY1OTacEzA
Hoped you like seeing it.

You are very welcome to your own opinions, I have no issue with that.

(Jurmabones) #58

I’m not back tracking shit. My stance has always been that mouse accel is increased cursor distance covered over faster mouse distance covered. If I said that it’s because I interpreted what you said as distance because there is no reason to bring up the fact that your cursor moves faster when you move your mouse faster without accel. Because it’s also true with accel. It has no relevance to the discussion at all, next time you write something like that I guess I’ll just ignore it instead.[/quote]

Quit trying to flame me. Quit trying to blame me for your own behavior and poorly conceived replies. You’re continually misusing words or making nonsensical phrases (faster mouse distance covered–seriously?) but you keep harassing me for this “misunderstanding” between us even though it’s painfully obvious that you’re the only one struggling to communicate properly.

You keep half-admitting you misread/misinterpreted what I said yet you try to pretend it’s my fault despite the fact that I am being very clear and precise with my language. I would appreciate it if you could do the same (be precise with your language) instead of harassing me every time you post.

Again, YOU misread what I said. YOU are the one who keeps using words improperly. Quit being so rude to me just because of the whole speed=/=accel thing. Time to move on, you’ve been rude ever since and I did nothing to deserve it. Just apologize and grow up. Sheesh.

[quote=“Ghosthree3;70709”]This guy does it in this video from 16:40 to 19:20 with 3 different sensitivities, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmY1OTacEzA
Hoped you like seeing it.[/quote]
I’m sorry but he only made minor adjustments to his accel settings and was shooting bots with extremely slow and predictable movement and his aim was poor regardless. He didn’t chop in-game settings and mouse dpi simultaneously and then demonstrate proficiency in high-level human gameplay.

Footage of someone being a bad shot with accel then being a bad shot when using marginally altered accel isn’t very convincing. I appreciate your enthusiam for mouse accel by linking the video you did, but the video doesn’t demonstrate anything meaningful.

(Ghosthree3) #59

He didn’t actually change his accel settings at all. He dropped the base sensitivity he was using by almost double - 0.4 scaling to 0.25 - over the course of that segment in the video.

If you want to ignore all evidence so as not to shatter your perceptions that’s fine. But don’t say you were never offered any.

Yes, that’s the whole point of acceleration, more distance is covered on the screen when you move the mouse faster. And yes I did notice how you typed it back in such a way that looks weird despite the fact I clearly never said it in that way.

Here I was thinking based on your last post that you were going to commit to reasonable discussion. I was wrong.

(Jurmabones) #60

He never adjusted anything inside the game itself, and in whatever GUI he was using (for some custom mouse driver?) his sensitivity remained at 1 the entire video.

[quote=“Ghosthree3;70732”]
If you want to ignore all evidence so as not to shatter your perceptions that’s fine. But don’t say you were never offered any.[/quote] You’re actually in complete denial of reality just to argue with me and not have to make yourself consider how good or bad mouse accel is.

Really?

[quote=“Ghosthree3;70709”]
I’m not back tracking shit. My stance has always been that mouse accel is increased cursor distance covered over faster mouse distance covered. If I said that it’s because I interpreted what you said as distance because there is no reason to bring up the fact that your cursor moves faster when you move your mouse faster without accel. Because it’s also true with accel. It has no relevance to the discussion at all, next time you write something like that I guess I’ll just ignore it instead.[/quote]
You actually said that exactly, as you can see for yourself.

Who are you to remark on “reasonable discussion”?

[quote=“Ghosthree3;70709”]
Go @$!# yourself. I can’t believe I wasted my time debating with one of you types. To me you’re basically screaming the Earth is flat, covering your ears and yelling loudly whenever someone tries to talk to you.

I’m done, I shall not now nor ever respond to you again in this thread, thanks for letting me know what kind of person you are.[/quote]

You’ve been acting extremely immature since I pointed out you were confusing speed and acceleration. Time to stop being a rude brat and accept responsibility for everything you’ve been saying. Or do everyone, especially yourself, a big favor and actually stop replying to me, since you’re obviously incapable of fully comprehending correct English and can’t write in it either.