Medics, Rambo medics and XP whores


(Cryxibus) #41

Here are two weapons that should have been added originally in RTCW.
(I know this may seem a bit off-topic, but people started talking about weapons, so here’s my chance to share two ideas that should have already been in the game.)

MP-44, also known as Sturmgewehr-44 (StG. 44)

Caliber: 7.92x33 mm (7.92mm Kurz)
Action: Gas operated, tilting bolt
Length: 940 mm
Weigth: 5.22 kg
Rate of fire: 500 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds

This weapon, known as a worlds first assault rifle, was developed in Hitlers’ Germany during the World War Two. Initial development took place under the designation of MKb.42 - MachinenKarabine, 1942. The experimental MKb’s were developed by two german companies, Karl Walther (MKb.42(W)) and C.G.Haenel (MKb.42(H)). Both guns were intended as a replacement for submachine guns, bolt action rifles and, partly, light machineguns for front troops. Both guns were designed to fire intermediate (between rifle and pistol) cartridge, and have effective range of 600 meters or so. The 7.92mm Kurz cartridge, developed by Polte company, propelled 8.1 g (125 grains) bullet to rougly 680 meters per second.

After initial trials the MKb.42(H), designed by Hugo Schmeisser, was found superior of two, and further development took place under the name of MP-43 (MachinenPistole, 1943, to avoid Hitlers opposition to made anything but SMGs). Some MP-43s were issued to troops at western front, and field reports were very promising. Final version appeared under the designation of Mp-44, and then Hitler finally approved it, but the new gun received also a new designation - SturmGevehr-44, which stands for no more than “Assult Rifle” in german language. This was pure act of propaganda, but the name stuck not only to that gun, but to the whole new class of automatic weapons, designed to fire intermediate cartridges. Total number of MP-43s, MP-44s and StG.44s produced was about 500 000, and these guns proved itself as wery effective, but not withouth some flaws. After end of the war the direct development of the Stg.44 was stopped, but some remained guns were used by East Germany.
The StG.44 is a gas operated, selective fire weapon. The receiver and trigger housing with pistol grip are made from steel stampings. Trigger housing with pistol grip is hinged to the receiver and folds town for disassembly. Gas drive utilises long piston stroke, and bolt is tipped down to lock into the receiver. Gun is fired from the closed bolt (unlike the early Mkb.42(H) which fired from the open bolt). Also, MP-43 and further versions all were hammer-fired, while MKb.42(H) was striker-fired. Charging handle is attached to the gas piston rod, ejection port has a dust cover. Recoil spring is located inside the wooden butt. Handguard were made of stamping.

By the modern standards, the StG.44 was too heavy, it was not too comfortable to fire from prone positions, the butt attachment was not too strong and could be easily damaged in hands-to-hands combat, but it was the FIRST gun of its class, and it was more effective than SMG.

Game Info
Versus the weapons already used in Wolfenstein, the StG44 should have a similar rate of fire as the MP40 (assuming that it’s slower than the Thompson), similar accuracy as the MP40, and slightly higher penetration power as the MP40. We don’t want this weapon to overpower the MP40 and it won’t because of these reasons:

  1. Only two classes that are able to use this assault rifle are Soldier and Field Ops.
  2. The MP40 has a faster reload rate.

The StG44 has no special abilities for the soldier class or field ops class (unlike the competing BAR). Like the BAR, however, the StG44 is considered as a light weapon and will build light weapon experience points for every kill with it. When an axis soldier reaches level 4 on heavy weapons, he will be able to carry an StG44 with an MP40 as if the StG44 really was a heavy weapon.

M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)

Caliber: .30 (7.62 mm)
Action: Gas cooled, gas operated, magazine fed, shoulder type
Length: 119.4 cm (47 in.)
Weigth: .33 kg (18.5 lbs)
Rate of fire: 550 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 rounds

The initial M1918A1 version of the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was first used in combat by American soldiers during World War I, and many saw service in World War II. The BAR received high praise for its reliability under adverse conditions.

In 1940, the model M1918A2 was adopted. Unlike earlier models, it could only be fired in two automatic modes–slow (300 to 450 rpm) or fast (500 to 650 rpm)–but not in semiautomatic mode. Both versions were widely used in the second world war. The USMC preferred the semiautomatic mode in some tactical situations, and modified most of the M1918A2 guns to include that capability. A buffer spring in the butt greatly reduced recoil, to the advantage both of firing accuracy and shooter endurance.

The M1918A2 also mounted its folding bipod (2.38 pounds!) on a special flash hider near the end of the barrel. Since the bipod could easily be detached in this model, it very frequently was! but not often in defensive positions, where it was very effective. The flash hider, which was the point of attachment for the bipod, was not usually removed. Hiding the flash from enemy troops when firing on them isn’t the purpose of the hider, all automatic weapons are easily visible when fired at night. It blocks the muzzle flash from the vision of the shooter, maintaining his night vision. That’s important!

The Army infantry squad of nine men was tactically organized around a single BAR. The Marine squad of thirteen men was organized around three fire-teams, each organized around a BAR. The much greater fire power of a Marine platoon with its nine BARs over the Army platoon with its four BARs was a great combat advantage.

The BAR was a popular weapon in WWII and Korea, because it was very reliable and offered an excellent combination of rapid fire and penetrating power. The BAR’s only serious drawbacks were its lack of a quick-change barrel (to reduce the chance of overheating), and its weight (BAR, with bipod and a loaded bandoleer, came to about 40 pounds).

Game Info
Versus the weapons already used in Wolfenstein, the BAR should have a similar rate of fire as the FG42, slightly higher accuracy than the Thompson, and similar penetration power as the Thompson. We don’t want this weapon to overpower the Thompson and it won’t because of these reasons:

  1. The Thompson has a larger magazine capacity.
  2. The Thompson has a faster reload rate.
  3. Only two classes that are able to use this assault rifle are Soldier and Field Ops.

The allied soldier will be able to choose a Thompson and a BAR together after he has reached level 4 on Heavy Weapons. The BAR is not considered as a heavy weapon, but a soldier may increase his heavy weapons level while using the BAR only if the soldier lies prone with it. This is because the BAR comes with a tripod (only for the soldier class) and when it is mounted it works like the MG42 does, increasing the accuracy significantly. When the BAR is mounted, the soldier can convert his ammunition into belt-fed mode which takes his initial 20 round magazine and adds it to the other 80 rounds that he is carrying. This process takes about 8 seconds, so a soldier wanting to use the BAR’s special feature may want to stay clear of danger while he is setting up. Even when dismounting his tripod, the conversion will take the same amount of time.

The benefits of this special feature are as follows:

  1. The bar initially carries a 20 round magazine and four other clips, totaling 100 rounds of ammunition. On conversion to belt-fed mode, the ammunition is added together so that the soldier may fire 100 rounds without reloading. The only problem with this is that a field ops cannot give them any more ammunition until the soldier runs out, thus meaning that a soldier carrying a BAR has a maximum ammunition capacity of 100 rounds at all times.
  2. The accuracy of the BAR is improved while in belt-fed mode, but fires at a slower rate than the MG42. Also, in comparison to the MG42, the BAR takes longer to mount because the soldier has to convert to belt-fed mode. The MG42 is much more reliable in overall comparison if a soldier wishes to use a mounted MG.

The BAR, when fired in the standard fire mode, will build experience points for the light weapons category. Also, when a field ops uses a BAR, it will have no special function.


(SubstandardJones) #42

I’m sorry buddy, but to reach level 4 anything, you have to have 140 points in that area.

Now if we do our math correctly (and understand that each revive is worth 4 points) we get a total of 35. How did I do that? Simple. I divided 140, by the number 4.

I’m not entirely sure where you went for schooling in math… but I’m still at a loss at how you got the number 24. Let’s see what number I get when I divide 140 by 24… 5.833 ? So each revive in your game is worth 5.833 points? Which mod you playin? Or what beer you drinkin? :beer: :smiley: :drink:[/quote]

Oh, sorry about that. I forgot that medpacks add into that equation. I just remember checking my revives once when I saw how many I had at level 4, and it was 24. Anyway, the point is that it’s quite simple to get to level 4. Not only do you get the points for reviving, but for just giving out health as well.


(BlackDeath) #43

I’m sorry buddy, but to reach level 4 anything, you have to have 140 points in that area.

Now if we do our math correctly (and understand that each revive is worth 4 points) we get a total of 35. How did I do that? Simple. I divided 140, by the number 4.

I’m not entirely sure where you went for schooling in math… but I’m still at a loss at how you got the number 24. Let’s see what number I get when I divide 140 by 24… 5.833 ? So each revive in your game is worth 5.833 points? Which mod you playin? Or what beer you drinkin? :beer: :smiley: :drink:[/quote]

Oh, sorry about that. I forgot that medpacks add into that equation. I just remember checking my revives once when I saw how many I had at level 4, and it was 24. Anyway, the point is that it’s quite simple to get to level 4. Not only do you get the points for reviving, but for just giving out health as well.[/quote]

Yeah, you kinda need to include that info when posting something like that :slight_smile:

Anyways, Cryxibus, this game wasnt made for top notch realism, it was made for FUN. Im gonna leave it at that. If you want ultra-realistic, go play AA :drink:


(Doc) #44

:clap:


(BlackDeath) #45

:clap:[/quote]

Lol, and an airstrike container replaces their knife :stuck_out_tongue:


(BlackDeath) #46

How many times have you gone Rambo through the Fuel Depot main entrance, killing thirty or forty Axis[/quote]

Umm, well, none, as its pretty hard to kill that many axis with two clips o’ ammo :stuck_out_tongue:


(MuffinMan) #47

this complaint arised from the beginnings of rtcw and still doesn’t die
the people who are saying a medic is too powerful are just frustrated because they get shot by a class which they suppose to be weak, after all medics and field ops are the 2 main classes while all the others are for specialized use, people should get used to it! i play quite as often medic as field ops and always have the same kill/death ratio so for me it’s balanced, reducing a medic to just the gun would result in no medics anymore - few people play medic anyway especially all the noobs play soldier or covert ops, and why is that? because they can’t aim and run out of ammo as a medic!
it takes some skill to be a good medic, you have to think for your teammates, see the grenade coming they don’t see and run to revive, i for my part am one of these suicidal medics who run right into nades, airstrikes or groups of enemies to revive and if i didn’t have the special advantages as a medic i couldn’t help people like that, when you force the medics to be a weaker class you simply won’t get revived that much anymore…

oh and btw - talking about soldiers with mp40 losing a duell against a medic - soldiers with mp40 or thompson should be autokicked anyway like on some OLTL - servers in rtcw!


(Ulysses S. Grant) #48

no offense muffin, but any GOOD medic or field ops should be totally outclassing everybody else. i say to IMPROVE everything else and keep field ops and medics the way they are. why does nobody comment on what i am saying? its pretty obvious that this is the only way to fix everything all good :stuck_out_tongue: Lowering a medic or field ops just makes them not really a medic or a field ops. why do you guys not read the upgrades i say to put into engineers and coverts? People only pick coverts and soldiers because those classes are new and have some cool features. It’s bs when im the best covert, and am in second or third place below a field ops and a medic. Its not that i cant kill them, its just that i want to be able to be in first with either class, coverts (or engineers) CAN NOT be in first when there is a skilled medic around, PERIOD.


(SubstandardJones) #49

There’s also a big difference between RTCW medics and ET medics. No matter how good a player you were in RTCW, you still couldn’t survive a direct grenade throw or a panzerfaust to the face.

A level 4 medic in ET can survive a panzerfaust (This was tested on a shrubmod server, so it may not be true everywhere, I’ll be testing that out later) rocket to the head and still have about 50 health left over, be regenerating, and also be able to give themselves health.

Medics should be harder to kill than most classes. They already have more health and they regenerate. Unfortunately, a level 4 medic so completely outclasses any other class in the game.

So what’s better? Making other classes better, or making medics worse? Frankly, I think making other classes better would be extremely tough to do, and you run the risk of unbalancing the game even further. Most of the classes are balanced with each other.

I like the idea of making Adrenalin cause your accuracy to plummet. It makes you use the adrenalin to stay alive and save others, not to stab yourself in the arm, prime a grenade, and run around the corner to kill seven guys and get barely a scratch on you.

You know how I killed two players using panzerfausts yesterday? I turned on adrenalin and ran at them. They shoot me at point blank range and get vaporized, while I get pushed back about ten feet and lose around 80-100 health.

It sounds like just a random complain of someone who gets killed a lot by medics, but it’s true. Medics are way too powerful in this game. Sure, I could be a medic all the time if I wanted to, but I don’t want to have to be a medic in order to compete with equally or lesser skilled players on the other team who happen to be medics. When I run around using adrenalin and am able to kill others that easily, I feel like I’m cheating.


(Cryxibus) #50

Anyways, Cryxibus, this game wasnt made for top notch realism, it was made for FUN. Im gonna leave it at that. If you want ultra-realistic, go play AA

:???: WTF?!?!?!?! Dude, did you even read my post? It didn’t say ANYTHING about realism issues. :eek2:

No wonder everyone is so confused at these forums, no one pays attention. They just skim and scan. How pathetic. I am appalled. :angry:


(SCDS_reyalP) #51

I’ve been killed many times with a panzerfaust or grenade as a level 4 medic (often right out of spawn). That’s not with adrenalin, but how often do you have time to shoot up before the PF hits you ? And if you abuse adrenalin, you can’t heal your team. Shrub does let your flack jacket carry over, which could explain it…

In the case of non-direct hits, there are a lot of quirks in the explosion physics. In RTCW, a stairstep could save you from dynamite…

ALL the classes (with the possible exception of covops) are overpowered at level 4. The engineers flack jacket gives him at least as much chance to survive explosives as a medic. The LT can call non stop support fire. The PF soldier can fire PFs very quickly and carry an SMG. I played a couple of games where the server admin set everyone to start at level 4. The medics by no means dominated. In fact, it was the LTs and PFs…

I wouldn’t mind seeing the medic toned down a bit (slow their regen or make their max health closer to other players) but I don’t see medics dominating unless they also outskill their opponents.

In any case, this whole discussion is pretty pointless. The chances of splash making gameplay changes at this point vanishingly small.


(MuffinMan) #52

i consider myself as a quite experienced player and although i am constantly reviving and giving med packs or as field ops giving ammo i yet still have at both classes a constant kill-death ratio of 3:1 and i am not a xp-whore but i am at top of the list about every time i play - but!: i am a team player and you can’t get high points (like said by others above) as a medic without helping your team a lot (and same for field ops)!

i’d really like to know what mod you’re playing, at least i get always killed by a panzer in my face, never use adrenaline though but i will test that now

if you are a team player and really want to help your team you shouldn’t be the 5th covert ops or the flamer in fuel dump, like said these are special classes, they have enough power for their special tasks and that’s it, how would you improve a panzer? as long as he doesn’t get an extra gun he never has a chance if he doesn’t hit with his panzer or should he get a constant fire rate of 3 panzers per second??..


(Rippin Kitten) #53

You survive it with adren. It halves all damage you take, which with a medic’s extra heath, bonus from other medics on your team, and the little extra from Battle Sense 3, you can take a panzer hit and still have like half your total HP left over.

Fun thing to do on shrub servers that let the flak jacket carry over. Get Engie 4 then go medic and get that to level 4 as well. Poke yourself with adren, then pull out the knife and go on a stabbing spree. The flak jacket protects you from panzers and grenades, whereas SMGs simply don’t do enough damage to slow you down. Since you get unlimited stamina while doped up, you can zig zag all over the place, running circles around people while you stab.

If the server lets you carry over both, and you get level 4 covert, you can rip through entire groups of bad guys in tight corridors. You just have to poke them once in the back 180 degrees to get the instant kill. With all the chaos and confusion you’re creating (“wtf why doesn’t he die!?!”) this is pretty easy to do.

RK


(system) #54

I find that people who call others xp whores generally tend to be less experienced players that seem to be jealous. What’s it to you that medics might be a bit powerful? What you want to be on in first place all the time and all the medics are stealing your place? GEEZ, they do there job and you do yours and were all happy.


(Kamel) #55

I’m sorry buddy, but to reach level 4 anything, you have to have 140 points in that area.

Now if we do our math correctly (and understand that each revive is worth 4 points) we get a total of 35. How did I do that? Simple. I divided 140, by the number 4.

I’m not entirely sure where you went for schooling in math… but I’m still at a loss at how you got the number 24. Let’s see what number I get when I divide 140 by 24… 5.833 ? So each revive in your game is worth 5.833 points? Which mod you playin? Or what beer you drinkin? :beer: :smiley: :drink:[/quote]

Oh, sorry about that. I forgot that medpacks add into that equation. I just remember checking my revives once when I saw how many I had at level 4, and it was 24. Anyway, the point is that it’s quite simple to get to level 4. Not only do you get the points for reviving, but for just giving out health as well.[/quote]

Yeah, you kinda need to include that info when posting something like that :slight_smile:

Anyways, Cryxibus, this game wasnt made for top notch realism, it was made for FUN. Im gonna leave it at that. If you want ultra-realistic, go play AA :drink:[/quote]

hmmm, i wonder how many of these little quote things you can put inside of each other… lmfao


(DrGonzo) #56

oh, a lot … just look here!! :smiley:


(funkPig) #57

Why? This is my point and perhaps should be moved to a new thread…
Why is the standard soldier such a wimp?


(MuffinMan) #58

because he is of no use for his team, he has to be provided with ammo and health and gives nothing back if he doesn’t at least use one of the soldier only weapons, standard users of that type are and have always been noobs. this is how the game is so why do so many people want to change the classes, if they don’t like the existing classes why don’t they play battlefield or something else…? that is my question…


(Pegger) #59

LMFAO


(Kamel) #60

oh, a lot … just look here!! :D[/quote]

oh jeez, you’re right, lol – i didn’t know it could go out that far omg, lol