Medic Suggestions

[Kendle]

So my suggestion is to go back to four packs an drop the regen nonsense.

I think that would be worth testing again. Now the Medic has an inferior gun what’s the reason for leaving him with nerfed packs? The Medic has received one nerf too many IMO, we’ve gone from rambo Medics to no Medics (obviously not quite, but it seems like it sometimes).

[Ruben0s]

I like the idea of tokamak. Would be the perfect solution for me. One medic that can frag and revive, but no selfheal. And one that is a bit weaker in combat, but stronger in the healing department. That would add way more depth and tactics in team games. I would play both classes and think that this is a better solution than what we hqve right now.

[prophett]

So my suggestion is to go back to four packs an drop the regen nonsense.

Would love to test this - I believe I may have missed it the first time around.

[INF3RN0]

Okay well then it clears it up that this just comes down to personal perspective so I’ll just leave one last bit. From my perspective I feel like I wouldn’t be gimping my team role with a different means of self-healing compared to how it functions now, but I could understand others feeling differently. After all the ‘combat medic’ I proposed would require a lot of aim practice to be efficient, but from my point of view a strong fragger could accomplish more with it in both combat and support- just with much less room for mistakes. If you can consistently win engagements without the need to self heal due to more dependable weaponry, then the need for self heal becomes void. While self packing at the cost of weaker weaponry caters to the wider audience, I’d prefer a means of better fragging and sacrifice my direct self heal for better team heals/revives because I could make ends meet. It would simply play to a different set of strengths where in direct self healing would become replaced with indirect self healing. If there was no means of gaining health back via these means in the moment, I’d either just deal with it or respawn. Sometimes I want there to be a risk factor involved in actions even if it causes occasional ‘frustration’. Unless I’m always making perfectly executed decisions and aiming at 100% then I pin the frustration on my own negligence.

The main selling point of a non-self healing medic for me aside from the weaponry, would be the return of uninterrupted med packs. My play style is to provide both supportive and combative assistance to the team, but it comes down to what I think will help most to achieve the win. I’m more of the person to go for kills rather than sitting behind another player and continuously packing/reviving, and instead do all my healing/reviving between engagements. I could still see a support player taking full advantage of the indirect healing mechanic I mentioned- in fact it would probably be more appealing than the current medic. The only risk factor is that if there’s no one around to rebound a self-heal off of your screwed, but to me that is deserved. Your at the same rambo efficiency as any other class, but when your working closely with your teammates you become more capable at sustaining momentum as is the medic’s role.

So tldr; It is my belief that this type of medic loadout would indeed be more popular than people here predict and I blame the addiction to direct self-heal play styles to be the main reason why we take different sides on the issue. Would it be a waste of time? I don’t think so, but we’d never know unless we tried so meh.

[Volcano]

@prophett
i think it was around the time that players dropped a universal ammo pack when they died so the players sustained themselves way to easily

[INF3RN0]

I think that would be worth testing again. Now the Medic has an inferior gun what’s the reason for leaving him with nerfed packs? The Medic has received one nerf too many IMO, we’ve gone from rambo Medics to no Medics (obviously not quite, but it seems like it sometimes).

Medic is still an effective class as it stands currently. Every time I’ve played a draft there is a saturation of medics, and when played well they make a lot of difference. They just aren’t used in pub because in that environment people are more obsessed with what class will get them the most frags solo and not what will help the team best. I’d go as far as to claim that at least 2 medics is ideal currently, though perhaps you wouldn’t need them at all if you were to perfectly out shoot them every time before they could exercise their tools, but that is highly unrealistic in an even match up. This is a good thing.

[INF3RN0]

Not to get off topic, but just to add to this… there’s a lot of conceptions that some classes are more worthless than they really are imo. This is partly because those claims are based off of pubs or imba scrims. If I were planning to play this game competitively I’d definitely always have 2 medics and 1 fops to start at minimum. This would be simply because of the impact of their supportive abilities (FOPS b/c you burn through ammo so quickly). The soldier/recon would be entirely situational in terms of how much fragging they could accomplish over another class. Aside from the c4 objs, these classes do nothing significant other than fragging. Engineer is the one class that I feel unsure of. It’s an effective camper when working closely with its tools, but I dislike camping so maybe that’s just me. If there wasn’t an engi obj I don’t think I’d ever run one because at that point it would only be there to frag, and in a more limited means. When it comes to EV objs I strongly feel that 2 FOPS and a soldier is ideal. This is because most people tend to run around fragging instead of focusing the EV down, which is key because it’s a race against time with the EV.

[Kendle]

I could still see a support player taking full advantage of the indirect healing mechanic I mentioned- in fact it would probably be more appealing than the current medic. The only risk factor is that if there’s no one around to rebound a self-heal off of your screwed, but to me that is deserved.

I think the indirect healing method would happen less, and be more frustrating, than you envisage. As it is now I find a large proportion of the packs I drop go un-used. There are many reasons for this of course. As I can’t see a team-mates health anymore I don’t know if he needs a pack, I tend to drop them if I see someone under fire and assume he’s been hit and needs it. But I also see packs being ignored, and of course there’s the scenario where a team-mate dies before he can get to the pack and benefit from it’s effect (because it’s not a med pack anymore, it’s a regen pack and it doesn’t work when taking damage).

I think reverting to the instant heal pack is a must if this combat Medic ever sees the light of day, but even then I can see game-changing scenarios where the Medic fails to activate the controls or escort the EV because he was damaged and had no team-mates to heal. The concept only really works if you assume objectives can only ever be completed by 2 or more people acting together. Of course team-work is what we all want, but there are also occasions where you need someone to step up and get the job done even if they’re on their own, and at that point the non-self-healing Medic, unlike everyone else, has a class ability he can’t use to help him do that.

It is my belief that this type of medic loadout would indeed be more popular than people here predict and I blame the addiction to direct self-heal play styles to be the main reason why we take different sides on the issue. Would it be a waste of time? I don’t think so, but we’d never know unless we tried so meh.

I don’t see it as an addiction to self-heal, I see self-heal as a necessary aspect of the Medic role (and I played support Medic almost exclusively for 4 years in RTCW and ET). However you’re right in that it’s a difference in play-style, and the only way to know for sure is to have the choice. I think it’d be a waste of SD’s time, but it’s their time to waste if that’s what they want to do. If I were them though I’d want to do it for the right reasons, not just to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist.

[tokamak]

If both the support and combat medic where distinct, fleshed out and well-balanced I’d require a coin flip every time I started a match in order to decide which one I’d play this time. And yes, other classes would pale in comparison. They would be completely lame and would need changing in turn because they too would need to cease being grunts with guns and a gimmick.

This is a unique opportunity. No other class can have two such extreme characters juxtaposed like this. Yet. We first need to see how far these two can be taken to the extreme before the other existing characters can be created or new ones can be invented.

It’s the combat and support medic that will determine the depth of the rest of the game.

@Kendle, the problem is that you keep maintaining that both decent combat power AND direct self-healing are “essential” parts of being a medic. They’re not. At least not both at the same time. The only thing this combination is essential for is K/D padding and nothing else. A medic doesn’t need both aspects in order to perform his role. The medic only needs either one of them and players need to chose.

The only players that will be turned off by branching off the current medic into two specialists are the KD’ers.

And you know what?

That would mean mission accomplished. This was the goal all along.

[Kendle]

@Kendle, the problem is that you keep maintaining that both decent combat power AND direct self-healing are “essential” parts of being a medic.

No I don’t.

Generally I’m not replying to you tokamak because I’d rather not debate the game with someone who doesn’t play it, but if you’re going to mis-represent my position I must.

I do not maintain the Medic must have both decent combat ability and self-heal, and have said so consistently, especially in just the last few pages of this thread if you care to read what I’ve posted.

[prophett]

[QUOTE=Volcano;456703]@prophett
i think it was around the time that players dropped a universal ammo pack when they died so the players sustained themselves way to easily[/QUOTE]

Yeah, before my time here.

[tokamak]

I do not maintain the Medic must have both decent combat ability and self-heal, and have said so consistently, especially in just the last few pages of this thread if you care to read what I’ve posted.

I really didn’t gather anything else from your posts other than clinging on to the best means to pad K/D. Sure you don’t state it explicitly, but then again, you’re way too intelligent to say that out loud.

I don’t want to mispresent your views however, so if you’re able to put your position very briefly and unambiguously then here’s your chance.

[spookify]

Do something with the Medic. I always ran out of ammo in 2 fights and there was no point to revive people.

Hey here’s an idea. Upon fixing spawn shield or whatever, how about you get one clip of ammo per Revive? And OR upon revive with a small shield the medic gets a 25% health pack chunk. This would allow medics to jump into a fire fight at half health instead of being tentative. Most of the time I revive at full HP.

Get rid of health regen!!

[Kendle]

I really didn’t gather anything else from your posts other than clinging on to the best means to pad K/D. Sure you don’t state it explicitly, but then again, you’re way too intelligent to say that out loud.

Really? Just on the previous page of this thread for a start :-

A Medic with self-heal and a gun as good as F/Ops is not viable, for all the reasons we’ve already stated. Self-heal must come at the cost of weaker weaponry …

I don’t want to mispresent your views however, so if you’re able to put your position very briefly and unambiguously then here’s your chance.

No thanks, already have done, at length, try reading other people’s posts for a change.

[tokamak]

Of the two characters Inferno and I are proposing, one of them contains a direct self-heal with weakened weaponry. I’m not really sure what you’re disagreeing on right now.

try reading other people’s posts for a change.

Couldn’t suppress a chuckle there.

[Kendle]

tokamak, I only responded to correct a factually incorrect statement you made about me.

I happily discuss this subject with Inferno because I respect him. I might not agree with him but at least he plays the game, is quite good at it, and from what I’ve seen is a pretty good Medic into the bargain, when he plays that class. None of those things appear to apply to you, so forgive me if I decline to discuss this matter with you.

Post false information and I’ll respond, other than that have a nice day

[tokamak]

It’s fine. Inferno frequently expresses my thoughts better than I do so I trust you two will get to the bottom of this. Eventually.

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;456702]The main selling point of a non-self healing medic for me aside from the weaponry, would be the return of uninterrupted med packs.
[/QUOTE]

That’s another thing that dawned on me. Currently the healing is limited in such a way that eventually you simply run out of packs. That means that there’s a hard limit on the amount of damage each side can deal to each other before the shoot-out is over.

Take the average damage per second that each team deals, add the max amount of healing the medic can do, and there you have the maximum amount of time most fights will last.

I don’t want that.

I don’t want a predictable time in which most fights will be played out. I want a huge standard deviation in the length of the fights.

If the current medic is being swapped for mr combat guy and mr support guy, who both are able to have a vast supply of heal packs without being a broken class, then you enable fights to last way longer. The upper limit is removed.

As a consequence, we will end up with a strongly contested frontline that will be pushed back and forth while two teams trying to best the opposing force by relying on each other. Longer ETQW-like fights, more mind-games, more people trying their hardest to probe for weak spots in the line.

All in all DB will be MORE hectic and LESS fractured. Players will feel more in control and strategy starts to matter.

---

And on the combat medic being unable to regain health without his team. Yes. That’s the whole point. If he can’t abide sticking to his team as a frigging medic then he really should reconsider his career.

[BomBaKlaK]

Hope some little medic weapon buff, or fall-off adjustment in the next build !
Nerfing is not the solution

[rookie1]

Hurry the revive protection, i think it was Bomba i revived 4-5 time in a row in Camden

[Protekt1]

Allow players to drag incapped players to safe spots to be revived