Medic Suggestions


(BAMFana) #201

Medics are way too powerful right now. Every team always plays with 2 or more medics, which is a pretty boring meta. I don’t think nerfing their fighting abilities is the way to go, instead medic abilities should be nerfed. Some ideas below.

Make reviving an ability, with cooldowns. This should be combined with giving each medic a unique revive ability – e.g. merc A revives players at 50 % hp instantly, merc B revives players at 100 % hp after 2 seconds.

Increase Sawbonez medpack cooldown significantly.


(jazevec) #202

I think reviving is too binary. Either you put enough bullets in the body and he dies for good, or you don’t and the patient is almost as good as new. My proposal:

Revive HP depends on body’s remaining HP. If the downed player took 5 bullets and was revived, he comes back with 1 HP.


(Szakalot) #203

[QUOTE=jazevec;531231]I think reviving is too binary. Either you put enough bullets in the body and he dies for good, or you don’t and the patient is almost as good as new. My proposal:

Revive HP depends on body’s remaining HP. If the downed player took 5 bullets and was revived, he comes back with 1 HP.[/QUOTE]

while i agree with the general idea, imo minimum reviving HP should still be at least 30; like help-up. Revive with 1hp sounds really silly, and would be very frustrating to play.

Another possibility is to slow down revived-player’s speed based on how close to gibbed he was before it. with 1hp remaining on the ‘body’ you could have a player moving at walking speed for 2seconds.


(BioSnark) #204

A lot of great suggestions in this thread and I’d be happy to see almost any nerf go through except nerfing medic combat ability.


(Pakaa) #205

IMO suggestions that limit movement in any way should be carefully considered. Such effects are very limited now, I think the exceptions are movement post long jump and sensitivity after Thunders flashbang last he was in… I’d rather keep the snappiness of movement and limit HP recovery instead.


(Szakalot) #206

dunno, imo the fact that the revived person is immediately back in action + revive shield allowing them to get a good position is a bigger deal than whether they have 10,30,50 hp


(jazevec) #207

Hey, wait a second! What if “how gibbed” the coprse was determined the duration of revive shield ?


(Beermachine) #208

Medics are fine the way they are. Fast revives, multiple revives, revive shields (more debateable), gibbing time etc are needed in fast paced objective games to allow the attacking side to reach the objective at something close to full strength, and set up an adequate objective defence when they don’t have the advantage of positioning that the defending side has in every engagement (if organised).

IMO it’s a better way to balance attack vs defence than longer respawn times for defenders or map / spawn point design (which also have there place).

Edit - If everyone shot the medics first like in W:ET then this issue completely disappears, and the SMG is undoubtedly weaker than an M4 etc. Aura’s healing station when armed with a shotty just around a corner might be an issue as there are few direct counters, but the ones that exist are extremely effective so not an issue IMO with a balanced team (and arguably underpowered in comp).


(kenpokiller) #209

Sparks.

I call myself

RAILGUN RAMBOMED

you’ll be crying boyyyssss


(kyuto9) #210

Give medics weapons some spread. The issue with medics in this game (sawbonez and aura) is that they are doing assault class job instead of their own : going frontline, fraggy fragga! The reason is - not even implying autoregen or healstuff - that their weapons are as (if not more) effectiv than aggressiv classes such as phoenix at the time and more recently, skyhammer and fragger. I’ve seen both aura and sawbonez facing 4 players at a time and getting out victorious.

Not only this is unfair comparing to real attack classes, but it makes medics forget about their real purpose : buffin health and reviving.
So here is what i’d do :

  • slower regen
  • less base hp
  • less hp refuel on medkit (25-50%)
  • their weapon should be “finishers” (sufficient to kill already wounded opponents), not as strong as non-support class. Imho a medic should be afraid of confrontation, he just want to run and heal. Killing ennemies should be more an exploit than a habit.
  • So they heal and revive, why not completing their set by replacing their handgun with a seringe that give temporary additionnal hp to teammates? Or adrenaline (hability to sprint and reload/shoot/use item without interruption)?
  • and finally, and i’m afraid it a bit brutal but main objectives interaction should be forbidden to medics to force them to support the other.

I don’t know if everyone see it the way i do, but for me a supportive class is always wanting to avoid gunfight as possible. They work “behind the scene”, but they ARE very important to the team, they should focus on the buffs and defend themselves and objectives, that’s all.
In Brink we had a slim medic in team (when people actually played the game…), and he just buffed, heal and ran away like a pipe rat, but he actually almost never died and was dealing hp and reviving like the postman deals newspaper on his bycicle. Funny thing is that he never had a single frag and still was often in top 3 players. Maybe the heal reward xp should be revised if above list is considered.

In Dirty Bomb, SD seems to want all characters to be offensive, but that’s wrong. Some should be tough, other weak, some should buff, some should tank, some should flee or hide etc. DB is a mess at class roles, everybody can do everything.
Classes must be more contrasted, and some serious sacrifice must be done to make everyone acting as he’s supposed to imo.


(montheponies) #211

[QUOTE=kyuto9;524571]Give medics weapons some spread. The issue with medics in this game (sawbonez and aura) is that they are doing assault class job instead of their own : going frontline, fraggy fragga! The reason is - not even implying autoregen or healstuff - that their weapons are as (if not more) effectiv than aggressiv classes such as phoenix at the time and more recently, skyhammer and fragger. I’ve seen both aura and sawbonez facing 4 players at a time and getting out victorious.

Not only this is unfair comparing to real attack classes, but it makes medics forget about their real purpose : buffin health and reviving.
So here is what i’d do :

  • slower regen
  • less base hp
  • less hp refuel on medkit (25-50%)
  • their weapon should be “finishers” (sufficient to kill already wounded opponents), not as strong as non-support class. Imho a medic should be afraid of confrontation, he just want to run and heal. Killing ennemies should be more an exploit than a habit.
  • So they heal and revive, why not completing their set by replacing their handgun with a seringe that give temporary additionnal hp to teammates? Or adrenaline (hability to sprint and reload/shoot/use item without interruption)?
  • and finally, and i’m afraid it a bit brutal but main objectives interaction should be forbidden to medics to force them to support the other.

I don’t know if everyone see it the way i do, but for me a supportive class is always wanting to avoid gunfight as possible. They work “behind the scene”, but they ARE very important to the team, they should focus on the buffs and defend themselves and objectives, that’s all.
In Brink we had a slim medic in team (when people actually played the game…), and he just buffed, heal and ran away like a pipe rat, but he actually almost never died and was dealing hp and reviving like the postman deals newspaper on his bycicle. Funny thing is that he never had a single frag and still was often in top 3 players. Maybe the heal reward xp should be revised if above list is considered.

In Dirty Bomb, SD seems to want all characters to be offensive, but that’s wrong. Some should be tough, other weak, some should buff, some should tank, some should flee or hide etc. DB is a mess at class roles, everybody can do everything.
Classes must be more contrasted, and some serious sacrifice must be done to make everyone acting as he’s supposed to imo.[/QUOTE]

Think i entirely disagree with your post. Any merc should be effective at killing, I really dont want a TF2 style passive med, that’s some boring **** to play. If you go back to RTCW/W:ET the medic was the assualt class, funnily enough he still is in all the BF series of games.

As it stands Aura has way too powerful healing station, that is just frustrating and cheap and boosts her effectivess in 1v1s. Sawbonez on the other has a relatively weak gun and packs that in only provide a health regen. In no way do I feel threatened by Sawbonez if I’m playing as Skyhammer or Fragger.

Nice revive on a 2yr old thread though (pun intended) :slight_smile:


(Szakalot) #212

[QUOTE=montheponies;524574]Think i entirely disagree with your post. Any merc should be effective at killing, I really dont want a TF2 style passive med, that’s some boring **** to play. If you go back to RTCW/W:ET the medic was the assualt class, funnily enough he still is in all the BF series of games.

As it stands Aura has way too powerful healing station, that is just frustrating and cheap and boosts her effectivess in 1v1s. Sawbonez on the other has a relatively weak gun and packs that in only provide a health regen. In no way do I feel threatened by Sawbonez if I’m playing as Skyhammer or Fragger.

Nice revive on a 2yr old thread though (pun intended) :)[/QUOTE]

What he said.

Also, it is clear that medics are weaker in combat compared to other classes in a straightup 1on1. I’ll take any M4 over any SMG any day.

Regardless, Dirty Bomb is a game with a high reliance on skill; so a disadvantaged Medic with 3-4x times as good aim will still destroy them fraggers. Its fine.


(Chux) #213

Medics are already weak as is both in the HP and weapons department. The only thing needing nerfs is the healt station.


(kyuto9) #214

Didn’t noticed about the topic history, indeed datrevive ^^

I hear what yall tell me, i must say i tried proxy, sawbonez, and aura a few times (like twice each not much), enough to make my skyhammer ratio become ridiculous. So I had either the choice to think “Gee! that’s a character for me!” or “them medics and engi are so op! Let’s not play them infidels and get back to skyhammer”.
I guess i picked second choice. A third choice might occur tho : “i’m so fvcking sh1t with skyhammer”… but shhhhhhhhh u_u
Btw, except my dumbness, i still prefer passiv medics. In TF2 you have good melee weapon and the Uber special attack. Also you gain point from the teammates you are liked to. It has nothing close to do with DB medic, but i think it could share some tf2 ideas somehow to get it entertaining without actually going Search&Destroy mode between coffee and revives.

(The more i think about it, the more the idea of customisable class is giving me boner. If people hate passiv medic, they could as well make an “activ” one, and other could build a fullmedic class not giving a **** to frags, or not much.)

And would this point alone still come across the gamedesign iyo?

“- and finally, and i’m afraid it a bit brutal but main objectives interaction should be forbidden to medics to force them to support the other.”
I like SD games when each class had an objective ability that no other class does have, but i might understand it blocks the game at some point. Still, would forbidding 1 class from objective interaction be this much of a problem?


(Chux) #215

I think hardly anyone would play the medic then. The TF2 style medic should stay in TF2, it works well there but the game mechanics are nothing alike DB. Maybe have a future merc more similar to medigun gameplay but not make all of the medics play completely passive.


(kyuto9) #216

You’re right, it didn’t think about other class synergy tf2 involves with the medic, which is not the case in DB. Well i sure wait for such medic but with not much hope i guess.


(Kendle) #217

Yay for reviving my old thread, just had a quick skim over it and it sure does neatly represent my experience in the Alpha and Beta … endless debate on almost every aspect of the game and what we end up with appears not to bear any relation to what we were talking about.

Hardly played DB lately, but when I have my thoughts are quite simple … There are some Medics, but not enough, they sometimes revive, but usually don’t, some people play the objectives, but most don’t, sometimes you get past the 1st stage but mostly you don’t. It’s not quite mindless TDM, but it is almost.

The kindest thing I can say about the game is it’s not terrible. As a decade long supporter of SD and team-objective games I’d hoped for something better. :frowning:


(matsy) #218

I’m a medic through, and through, and reviving is what I like to do.

I would hate it to be passive.

I would be really interested to see the data on this.

Plotting a graph of average kills per class would be interesting to see.

I think @Kendle has touched on an interesting point of people just want to frag… Unfortunately this has always been present in the series (ET, QW etc.). It isn’t just that stronger players choose to defend and you get camped in your spawn. Players want to practice their 1on1 skill rather than purely objectives or class skills.

Rather than having TDM, I would like to see some smaller CTF style maps (Silly CTF from ET comes to mind) encourage a level of team play of an objective but senseless killing makes sense! These maps could be tugs of war (duel escorts, yay rail gun) or base race esk maps.


(kyuto9) #219

[QUOTE=matsy;524994] Players want to practice their 1on1 skill rather than purely objectives or class skills.
[/QUOTE]

This.
DB has a really specific shooting system. I’ve been playing tons of fps online, and yet it’s the only game i can’t frag properly, so i may, at times, YES wander on 1v1 as medic. I love doing objectiv and class stuff, but since the shooting and damage dealt are not yet fix in this game, it gets on your nerves and sometimes happen you go crusader mode simply because you spot a low hp ennemy : you know that moment when you are all “ogodogodogodogodogod” and you don’t give a falling sh1t to your class because it’s so damn random to take someone down in this game, you want to take your chance on wounded ones almost 80% of the time if not more.
Also if you can’t frag, you can’t defend yourself, and you are partly useless in a fast paced game like this. I got your point, for me people are more “training” than really seeking killpoints, because they are fed up with their butt being raped.

So i guess removing ennemy HP display when you aim at them for medics could partially prevent them to go berzerk. You don’t know if ennemy is full or low hp, you become wise.


(Szakalot) #220

[QUOTE=kyuto9;524996]

So i guess removing ennemy HP display when you aim at them for medics could partially prevent them to go berzerk. You don’t know if ennemy is full or low hp, you become wise.[/QUOTE]

wouldnt mind this at all