Make the balance work

(tominatorx) #81

[quote=“Amerika;135295”]I simply want a person who calls a vote not be able to call a vote again, if it fails, for the duration of the map. Other players on the server can still call for it but not that player. Because many matches these days has one person who will call a shuffle over and over again and then be all upset over balance. And many times it’s somebody spamming near the end of a match they think they are going to lose. You can’t really stop people from calling a vote near the end but there can be a limit placed on the spam.

I wouldn’t mind if SD kept track of vote casting and if you constantly called votes it would put you on a vote CD that persisted through games/sessions.[/quote]

A limit per person wouldn’t be a bad idea. That’s for sure.

But completely removing it like some people are saying would be ridiculous imo. => What would that fix? absolutely nothing.

You want to remove a feature in a game which almost everybody that plays a MP game would want to have. That to me is a clear example of no sense of reality. Ask most MP players if they want to play a game without any form of balancing or options to balance a game and most would turn around.

Oh but why am I even trying to explain that to you. You just think those people are mentally weak… so yeah… a person who has a different opinion gets called mentally weak by you so…

Reality is a lot of people have a different opinion and just saying everyone that doesn’t agree with your statement is a mentally weak person… Is not really an example of someone who is aware that other people can have a different opinion. => no sense of reality…

Of course, you can have your opinion but that doesn’t mean you can name and generalize a group of people who have a different opinion than you.

(RazielWarmonic) #82

Hey guys,

I’m going to be monitoring this thread closely now. The debate is getting a little out of hand attacking each other - This is a warning for all users in here. If this persists, I’m just going to lock the thread, and you’re not too far away from this.

There is currently nothing in the works to change Vote Shuffle, however, we are always open to feedback on how to improve this system. Suggestions and constructive feedback are appreciated, things like “well it sucks because they need to get good and learn l0l” is not good feedback (or a good argument).

Thanks.

(Atagi) #83

Just had a stopwatch match were we had leavers in our team. It was 4v2 and the enemys refused to shuffle. They spawncamped us with auras healtstation. Everyone who joined the game and our team instantly left the game. I called the shuffle a few times but the enemys refused to shuffle and preferred to keep spawncamping us. It was impossible to fight back.

So we had to wait till the timer runs out and we lose the match or leave and lose the time we already played.

Could you fix this problem?

(uWotm8-AU) #84

[quote=“tominatorx;135299”][quote=“Amerika;135295”]I simply want a person who calls a vote not be able to call a vote again, if it fails, for the duration of the map. Other players on the server can still call for it but not that player. Because many matches these days has one person who will call a shuffle over and over again and then be all upset over balance. And many times it’s somebody spamming near the end of a match they think they are going to lose. You can’t really stop people from calling a vote near the end but there can be a limit placed on the spam.

I wouldn’t mind if SD kept track of vote casting and if you constantly called votes it would put you on a vote CD that persisted through games/sessions.[/quote]

A limit per person wouldn’t be a bad idea. That’s for sure.

But completely removing it like some people are saying would be ridiculous imo. => What would that fix? absolutely nothing.

You want to remove a feature in a game which almost everybody that plays a MP game would want to have. That to me is a clear example of no sense of reality. Ask most MP players if they want to play a game without any form of balancing or options to balance a game and most would turn around.

Oh but why am I even trying to explain that to you. You just think those people are mentally weak… so yeah… a person who has a different opinion gets called mentally weak by you so…

Reality is a lot of people have a different opinion and just saying everyone that doesn’t agree with your statement is a mentally weak person… Is not really an example of someone who is aware that other people can have a different opinion. => no sense of reality…

[/quote]

I haven’t called anybody who disagreed with me mentally weak.

If [quote=“uWotm8-AU;135095”]The vote shuffle is only used by mentally weak people who would prefer to be carried rather than even attempt to fight back.[/quote]

So your entire post is based off you putting words into my mouth.

(binderr) #85

[left]Team shuffling should only be available in the fist half of the match in stop watch mode, I know lots of people will spam suffle in the second part of stop watch just because they’re losing, it’s really annoying.
In objective mode, allow shuffle for first few minutes at the start, maybe first 3min. After that, well tough!! >:) [/left]

(tominatorx) #86

[quote=“Atagi;135304”]Just had a stopwatch match were we had leavers in our team. It was 4v2 and the enemys refused to shuffle. They spawncamped us with auras healtstation. Everyone who joined the game and our team instantly left the game. I called the shuffle a few times but the enemys refused to shuffle and preferred to keep spawncamping us. It was impossible to fight back.

So we had to wait till the timer runs out and we lose the match or leave and lose the time we already played.

Could you fix this problem? [/quote]

I would say if a team is with 2 players less than the opposite team => Pause the timer => auto shuffle => even teams again.

That’s the only solution I can think of tbh. :slight_smile:

(tominatorx) #87

Eveyone that uses vote to shuffle that’s a pretty large group. :slight_smile:

Most people don’t want an easy ride, they want a fair fight. Just saying…

And this is the last thing I’ll say because I don’t want to flood this thread with posts.

(uWotm8-AU) #88

[quote=“tominatorx;135312”][quote=“uWotm8-AU;135151”]
while some call the vote shuffle because they’re pathetic.
[/quote]

Eveyone that uses vote to shuffle that’s a pretty large group. :slight_smile:

Most people don’t want an easy ride, they want a fair fight. Just saying…

And this is the last thing I’ll say because I don’t want to flood this thread with posts.[/quote]

And I still haven’t called anybody mentally weak for disagreeing with me.

What exactly are you trying to prove?

(Begin2013) #89

@RazielWarmonic : The feedback is :

  • That’s very disturbing to have to vote 5 times per match. When we play we need some concentration and not to be disturbed by useless vote (as they fail 99% of time).
  • Because we have to press F1 and F2, sometimes it change the loadout at respawn.
  • When we try for example to protect a “generator” during 5 minutes, we don’t want to be shuffle and to have to destroy that same “generator” (for example the doors generators in Trainyard or the tunnel generator in Terminal).
  • There is absolutely no reason to prevent 2 or 3 friends to stack in same team to elaborate team-play strategies (especially in stopwatch).
(bontsa) #90

And feedback from the other end in nutshell:

  • Removing entire function as some of you suggest serves no purpose. As I said before, complete overkill. Like removing head of a person if they have mental illness.
  • Instead it should be tweaked yes, if you solely suggested that it would have railed the entire discussion into other way. Pardon for my part of bringing it into more chaotic routes.
  • For example, limiting the amount of times it can be called per match would be definitely good idea. Nobody likes spam votes no matter what they represent
  • However it should be much more visible when vote is called, so many people miss it and every single unvoted voice seems to be counting towards “No”, so rarely even blatant stomps get unshuffled
  • Number-wise inbalance is completely different thing than skill-induced inbalance. Autobalancing can be put in place to fix first, shuffle is needed to give tools to counter second
  • It’s drive for to get more even games, not mental weakness to call shuffle. Yes, it can be abused and called for wrong/stupid reasons, so can alcohol and it’s still legal substance. All you need to do is to keep voting “No” if it’s voted for no reason.
(Ptiloui) #91

To go further in a hypothetical change in vote shuffle option : Be able to vote shuffle only after X minutes (I’ve sometimes seen vote shuffle called during warmup time :O) and not after mid game. And, why not?, if a shuffle pass, restart the match too ? So we could have a complete balanced match ?
Plus, introduce an auto balancing system when a team has 2+ more players than the other, like in other game. Players recently entered in a game would be automatically side changed this way.

(Begin2013) #92

Ptiloui : I agree with you, if there is shuffle then the match must restart.
And to prevent abuse that vote should be asked maximum one time per match.

coolFortress : The reason it can be removed in my opinion is it cause more troubles than it resolve. That’s why no other game have that kind of vote. And nothing prove the shuffle result will be more balanced as it depends on too many parameters.

(MTLMortis) #93

[quote=“Begin2013;22422”]In most matches some players ask shuffle 3 or 4 times. That’s useless and very annoying. Especially in stopwatch when the vote success at the end of the half time and you are switched to the other team…

That vote must be removed.[/quote]

No.

Actual team balance needs to be implented. It is currently extremely broken. Not even sure that there is any after the past month or so of observation.

(kibloy) #94

In 400+ hours of play time I don’ think I’ve seen more than 5 players initiate a vote to shuffle when they were on the winning team. Tells me enough about people’s motivations to know it’s being abused the majority of the time by people who don’t like losing.

The time people spend crying about balance and level 50s in chat and spamming shuffle votes would be much better spent actually putting up a fight and trying to win. Every time I see a shuffle vote instantly after warmup because the enemy team has a few more high level players, I want to cry.

(sentimentalDime) #95

The real question here is:
Why haven’t Splash Damage fixed the goddamn team balancing? (Or rather, the lack thereof)
I mean, i joined this forum back in july, and even back then there was a big outcry for, but SD hasn’t done a goddamn thing about it.

(Hexwall) #96

I always vote if I think the other team is having a really bad time (being on their shoes many times) and I tell my team not to spawn camp if they are about to do so and I stay out of it.
I HATE being stomped, its not fun and you learn NOTHING, its just frustrating and makes you wanna leave asap.

Thinking new players will only learn if they are faced against lvl 30+ and that shuffle is too coddling is absurd. Following your logic I should leave my 1yo baby in the forest so it learns how to fucking live since kindergarten is too safe.

Honestly, why don’t you just leave? And take your salty with ya thanks

(Guziol) #97

This really shuffles my jimmies.

(Whens_Phoenix) #98

Of the stuff you pointed out the two things I wholeheartedly agree with are:

Votes, especially the shuffle vote is spammed constantly and it gets annoying. I’ve been in a match in which I’ve been shuffeled about 8 times. By that point I bet nobody in the game even cared if they are winning or losing any more.

In Stopwatch mode the second round shouldn’t allow shuffle votes. Defending all the way only to be switched at the last second is just a slap in the face. Dosen’t matter if I get to keep my XP and stuff. I already hated that in Team Fortress 2.

(Detheroc) #99

Hello,
So it really became a thing lately. There is no match I play without a single shuffle vote in it. I understand if it gets shuffled after alot of people left for some reason, but shuffling only because their team is losing is annoying. Especially if the shuffle vote comes through after i worked hard to defend that EV for like 10+ minutes, then i get shuffled to attacker side and just feel horrible because there is no way i can still win. I dont care about Xp, i dont care about Credits, i care about how i feel playing the game. And basically making myself lose by defending the objective is making me mad.

Shuffles should be disabled at around 5 minutes into the game.

(Sithas) #100

The shuffle vote spam should stop, with that said. The average mentality of pub players is to try to get as easy win possible. In the last 5 matches i played, the games were unbalanced(stacking or 4vs6 etc to the point of spawncamping) not once did the shuffle vote pass. Note i only mentioned pubs because i dont play ranked atm.
Keep the shuffle vote but put a limit on it. And please fix the broken balance of this game.