Let's talk about the "Change Team" function.

(Noir) #41

I have around 700 hours in game and although I can’t say never witnessed the behavior described by OP, it’s far from being the norm. Some not-so-skilled-high-levels may do it but in average, high levels switch for balance purposes. I often switch to close the gap (when I feel I can balance things)
I don’t mind low levels doing it at it mostly won’t change anything.

I got my ass kicked real hard when I started playing as it was my first fps with no so low TTK involving tracking skills. I put a lot of efforts in this game and I can now pub stomp. Today, I am looking for balanced games. I use the feature you call “exploit” to balance pub games as much as I can. (as it is in my sense the best balancing system (manually switching).

I know I speak for myself but as I said, I have not witnessed much games on which the issue you describe occurs. Also, I really think high skilled players have no interest in stomping new ones. It’s not rewarding at all.

(Jostabeere) #42

[quote=“N8o;205155”]

Always a pleasure to be called out on things I never did
/s[/quote]

I am sure you know pretty well what I’m speaking about. Playing 7vs5 execution with a friend against me and ignoring the balance completely after I asked you to switch teams while proceeding to stomp our whole team with your friend.
Edit: I even found the screenshot of the said game.
https://puu.sh/m5Osc/b7fbac49de.jpg
But you never did that :neutral:

(vSyNd) #43

In my OP examples, I show that anyone with a higher skill level switching teams causes imbalance. This is the nature of higher skilled players switching teams, instead of staying on the teams they were balanced to be on.

[quote=“sandstormMosaic;205226”]I have around 700 hours in game and although I can’t say never witnessed the behavior described by OP, it’s far from being the norm. Some not-so-skilled-high-levels may do it but in average, high levels switch for balance purposes. I often switch to close the gap (when I feel I can balance things)
I don’t mind low levels doing it at it mostly won’t change anything.

I got my ass kicked real hard when I started playing as it was my first fps with no so low TTK involving tracking skills. I put a lot of efforts in this game and I can now pub stomp. Today, I am looking for balanced games. I use the feature you call “exploit” to balance pub games as much as I can. (as it is in my sense the best balancing system (manually switching).

I know I speak for myself but as I said, I have not witnessed much games on which the issue you describe occurs. Also, I really think high skilled players have no interest in stomping new ones. It’s not rewarding at all.
[/quote]

You guys seriously will just think whatever you want about what I said in the OP.

I NEVER SAID HIGH LEVEL or LOW LEVEL PLAYERS!

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/60/609299a1128b20719e1ce667a0b10bd8bd11267167e1ab5fbe3af6fb74cd30f9.jpg

(Madonna_) #44

Jeez, when the only thing we had was the old unbalanced wolfenstein ET we learned to live with it, we grow up against stacking teams and good players, thats why oldschool gamers are more mature and can play better than most newcomers, this ain a game for pussies, if you(people) cant stand some unbalancing i highly suggest you to change game, i am level 56, been around many unbalanced maps still got over it and maybe learned some skills in the process

(Mooks101) #45

I personally dont play/enjoy objective game modes (only for missions). I’m a huge fun of execution mode and i use this feature a lot to balance the teams out. I see a lot of people using this feature in a good way… Let’s say that the attackers are winning 4-0, and occasionally i see someone fairly skilled switch teams. I also see it being exploited, some people just want to be on the winning team, maybe for the daily win exp or the 500 win exp.

I personally like and hope they keep the switch team feature.

(n-x) #46

Nobody is doubting that when a high skilled player is changing team, that it also changes the balance. But you are arguing that this is a kind of exploit, almost every experienced player uses. Even it is not an exploit. And when knowing how to use the switch team button is experienced for you…

You just stated something. Just saying something is no proof that something happens. If you claim something you have to prove it. You have proven nothing. In this thread there have now several players with several 100 hours game time stated, that they hardly have experienced this/ that this is not the norm/ that this is no problem. And you keep saying that this some kind of malicious tactic almost every experienced player is using, even when “experienced” by your definition is “not completely brain dead” . Dont you see how ridiculous that is?

I think, you are not just feeling like taking crazy pills. I think, you are actually taking some.

(vSyNd) #47

Enjoy your dying game then.

(vSyNd) #48

Totally not stacked. You think they will shuffle if we start a vote?

Nope, they wont. They enjoy their stacked teams.

Certainly not stacking here.

Nope, people don’t Exploit at all.

Stack em up!

(MarsRover) #49

Don’t play Stopwatch if you want games as balanced as they can be until CMM arrives.

(vSyNd) #50

I enjoyed CMM, first one I saw them do, but queue times sucked. If they can fix that stuff, things will be all good. I’m a bit skeptical atm.

(Dysfnal) #51

But then I can’t get 18000 score in an objective match pocketing @Xenithos as Phoenix…

On a serious note, I use this if there’s a huge difference in skill between the teams and we have an extra merc, I love good games more than I love stomps. I also love playing against my friends just as much as playing with them

(supergonzo) #52

I don’t get it.
The Sync guys just connecting to the server.
All i see is whine.

(N8o) #53

[quote=“Jostabeere;205241”][quote=“N8o;205155”]

Always a pleasure to be called out on things I never did
/s[/quote]

I am sure you know pretty well what I’m speaking about. Playing 7vs5 execution with a friend against me and ignoring the balance completely after I asked you to switch teams while proceeding to stomp our whole team with your friend.
Edit: I even found the screenshot of the said game.
https://puu.sh/m5Osc/b7fbac49de.jpg
But you never did that :neutral: [/quote]

If I recall correctly, I went Nader that game with nothing but my grenade launcher, then made someone rage, and then the teams were “stacked” after that point.
Smash would have gone the other way if I joined your team.

(The_N00Ba) #54

Luckily I have seen more players switching side to balance games rather than stacking. I switch myself when i can but I always try to keep things fun and entertaining for everyone.

(Xenithos) #55

[spoiler][quote=“scorchingTongs;205102”][quote=“Nail;205101”]it’s not an exploit.[/quote]

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.

So unless the Game’s Designers wanted people to use Team Change in the way many players are doing it… then yes, it IS an Exploit.[/quote][/spoiler]

[quote=“scorchingTongs;205109”]

You didn’t read all of it, I made sure to “Bold” the part that you should have focused on. Not only Bug, but also glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed.

So it’s in there.[/quote]

So I’m gonna help ol’ @Nail out here since he doesn’t like dealing with lunacy. You misunderstood HIM. He probably should have bolded It’s intended and used the word exploit rather than bug, but what he said regardless is the point.
— The Developers intended for Switch/team etc. to EXIST for the purposes of switching to play with friends, and if people use it for other purposes, whatever.
It is NOT an exploit, it is intended, and was created mostly for the purposes it’s being used on.

[spoiler][quote=“Jostabeere;205241”][quote=“N8o;205155”]

Always a pleasure to be called out on things I never did
/s[/quote]

I am sure you know pretty well what I’m speaking about. Playing 7vs5 execution with a friend against me and ignoring the balance completely after I asked you to switch teams while proceeding to stomp our whole team with your friend.
Edit: I even found the screenshot of the said game.
https://puu.sh/m5Osc/b7fbac49de.jpg
But you never did that :neutral: [/spoiler][/quote]

Hey @Jostabeere ?
/s means “Sarcasm to whatever was just said” in Reddit terminology.
I don’t frequent Reddit EVER but that means N80 was being a sarcastic funny ‘jerk’ as usual. You misunderstood him, which your efforts against him just now ended up making you look bad, and him looking even funnier; despite the bad situation.

(Xenithos) #56

[quote=“Dysfnal;205296”]But then I can’t get 18000 score in an objective match pocketing @Xenithos as Phoenix…

On a serious note, I use this if there’s a huge difference in skill between the teams and we have an extra merc, I love good games more than I love stomps. I also love playing against my friends just as much as playing with them[/quote]

Perfectly said @Dysfnal. I use this feature whenever stomps start to occur WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Here’s something to think about OP - Sometimes we can’t switch to better balance things, because people are already filling in the space as ‘joiners’ or the losing side may still have better people.

If my friends are against me, tough for them or for me (I’ve had 4v1s - They ain’t pretty). If they’re with me, then great. I’ve found (for the most part) that the actual reason one team is losing, or things are ‘stacked’ is more reliant in the lack of medics on each side, or the skill in medics.

Most of the other roles become less variant and important the more players there are, and the more frequently teams communicate. Medics are the most important class withholding engies. Sure, some players are so good they automatically stack the game, regardless of amount of foes. See @Amerika or @N8o if you need an example on YouTube. But honestly, medics are the top dogs, take a look at that thought before posting again.

I don’t have my 39k from one objective match as Aura on Terminal picture anymore, but there was no stacking in that game. One team had me, the other team didn’t. That’s why I gained so many points, they kept fragging the people on my HS rather than killing the healstation, and the enemies didn’t have medics.

(vSyNd) #57

End match results. We got the good fillers by the end of the game, luckily. Even with the good players compared to theirs, we ended in a draw.

(vSyNd) #58

I wonder what’s going on with this one?

Let’s watch and find out…

They definitely seem stacked, but I was told not a lot of people do it, so I must be wrong.

Let’s see what happens on the next map… Hmm they are all on a team together again. Weird.

Could it be they are Exploiting the system?

Guess that answers that… People do use the system to exploit… darn, I hate being right.

Things you can see that happened from these images… On the first match they were obviously stacked, we called for shuffle 3 times, every time was denied.

Next map goes into lobby, a few of them leave, the other few stay and end up on a team together, the map starts a few join back… boom they are all on a team.

Players are intentionally using the Change Team feature to gain an advantage on other players. That is an Exploit.

I beg you devs, take that feature out of the game, I mean you’re changing it to CMM eventually anyways, why not give it a shot till then.

Remember…
[i]
Why is this bad?

For some players, they have a good time teaming up and playing together instead of fighting each other, so I can see how that appeals to them, BUT for other player trying out this great new game, they are getting STOMPED by the players doing this Team Stacking.

New players get frustrated that the Team Balancing is crap, they can’t win, and are just getting rolled, so they stop playing this game. Bad reviews of balance and pay 2 win are then placed on the Steam Reviews. (This is bad for your game devs.)

Overall this is terrible for everyone. New players aren’t having fun and leaving the game, Experienced players are losing their community because players are not sticking to the great game, and Devs are losing customers.[/i]

(vSyNd) #59

[quote=“Xenithos;205312”]

— The Developers intended for Switch/team etc. to EXIST for the purposes of switching to play with friends, and if people use it for other purposes, whatever.
It is NOT an exploit, it is intended, and was created mostly for the purposes it’s being used on.[/quote]

Making it hard for me to quote the right things. :smile:

Anyway, are those your own words, or is there a Dev quote somewhere saying that’s their intended use?

I would thin friends that wanna play on a team should play Ranked Matchmaking.

I have been told a few times that if I want balanced teams with no team stacking to go there. I could say the same about the people that want to play together, they should just go to Ranked Matchmaking.

Maybe more players would got to Ranked Matchmaking if there wasn’t any other sure way to get on teams. IDK

[quote=“Xenithos;205313”]

Perfectly said @Dysfnal. I use this feature whenever stomps start to occur WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Here’s something to think about OP - Sometimes we can’t switch to better balance things, because people are already filling in the space as ‘joiners’ or the losing side may still have better people.

If my friends are against me, tough for them or for me (I’ve had 4v1s - They ain’t pretty). If they’re with me, then great. I’ve found (for the most part) that the actual reason one team is losing, or things are ‘stacked’ is more reliant in the lack of medics on each side, or the skill in medics.

Most of the other roles become less variant and important the more players there are, and the more frequently teams communicate. Medics are the most important class withholding engies. Sure, some players are so good they automatically stack the game, regardless of amount of foes. See @Amerika or @N8o if you need an example on YouTube. But honestly, medics are the top dogs, take a look at that thought before posting again.

Snipped awkward gloating [/quote]

Actually you can switch around teams if the game fills up. There is a Shuffle Feature, and I bet if people couldn’t switch teams on the fly, Shuffles would go through more often than they currently do.

Honestly based on how you guys portray the community, MANY players will agree to shuffles, so rebalancing teams is still a feature you wont lose by taking away the Change Team feature. :wink:

I know sometimes balancing is more dependent on team comps, I understand that aspect, but the idea that players with skill will know how to make a good team comp, and that when players stack they also make sure to have a good team comp.

(Jostabeere) #60

[quote=“Xenithos;205312”]
/s means “Sarcasm to whatever was just said” in Reddit terminology.
I don’t frequent Reddit EVER but that means N80 was being a sarcastic funny ‘jerk’ as usual. You misunderstood him, which your efforts against him just now ended up making you look bad, and him looking even funnier; despite the bad situation.[/quote]
Don’t use reddit at all. No idea that “/s” was. And even sarcasm doesn’t change the fact.

@N8o And no. The teams started out as a 5vs7 and noone joined us for the whole game. You won 7:1. And yhou shot me in the face multiple times. With a gun.