Let's talk about the "Change Team" function.


(vSyNd) #1

When in a match, you can switch teams. By doing this, you can be on the team with the players you want to be with.

This is not too known for all players, most players just kinda stay on whatever team they’re put on, but a lot of more experienced players know that you can switch teams.

So what the experienced players do is… Let the game auto select balanced teams, then when the game starts they switch to whichever side they want to be on, and after they are on a team together, they pub stomp players. They are using the feature to gain the advantage. I would consider that an Exploit.

Why am I telling you this?

I want the devs to fix this problem. The game should auto-balance teams at the beginning of every match, and they should be locked in. The ONLY time it can change is if the Shuffle System is voted and agreed on.

Why is this bad?

For some players, they have a good time teaming up and playing together instead of fighting each other, so I can see how that appeals to them, BUT for other player trying out this great new game, they are getting STOMPED by the players doing this Team Stacking.

New players get frustrated that the Team Balancing is crap, they can’t win, and are just getting rolled, so they stop playing this game. Bad reviews of balance and pay 2 win are then placed on the Steam Reviews. (This is bad for your game devs.)

Overall this is terrible for everyone. New players aren’t having fun and leaving the game, Experienced players are losing their community because players are not sticking to the great game, and Devs are losing customers.

How can this Exploit be fixed?

Don’t let players switch teams. That’s it, easy fix. Put it in the next patch. Wipes hands clean


More details of how and why the feature is broken and can be Exploited.

Let’s talk about a PERFECT WORLD SCENARIO…

In a perfect world, each team would have equal skill distributed between the 2 of them. So let’s create that scenario.

Players will each have a skill level, to keep it simple will we range that skill level from 1-10.

Perfectly Balanced teams

Team 1 - 10, 9, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players) 48 Team Power

Team 2 - 10, 9, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players) 48 Team Power

I’d expect this match to be pretty fair, making for a great game experience.

So how can I exploit this perfect world?

Team 2 has a player drop from the game, unknown reason, and it was one of the 5s.

If any player from Team 1 that is above 5 changes team to Team 2 now, let’s just say the 9 switches, then Team 1 will be down a player, and Team 2 will have a Stacked Team.

The numbers would look like this.

Team 1 - 10, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (7 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 9, 8, 7, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players)

So Team 1 now has about 39 total team power, while Team 2 is sitting at 52 team power.

There is still an available slot for someone to join Team 1, but the random player that joins is like rolling the dice, you are going to get a player level between 1-10, but you don’t know what level, and the game never accounted for this player in its original team balancing at the beginning of the match.

Even if Team 1 gets another 10, their team power is still only at 49 compared to Team 2 at 52 team power.

This is pretty close to being perfectly balanced, but in the end, one team is still Stacked.

Another way this can be done.

The Exploit doesn’t only rely on “if a random player drops” is at the beginning of games, if both teams aren’t completely full yet this can happen…

Team 1 - 10, 9, 5, 2, 2 (5 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 5, 2, 2 (5 Total Players)

So here we have 2 balanced teams that still have 3 slots each before the teams become full.

How can I Exploit this?

The match starts and about 2 minutes into what looks like is going to be a pretty fair and balanced game some random newcomer joins Team 1. Now Team 1 has an extra player, so anyone from Team 1 can join Team 2 if they choose to. Let’s say the 9 from Team 1 decides to switch teams. This is what it looks like after using the “Change Team” feature to stack a team.

Team 1 - 10, 5, 2, 2, ? (5 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 9, 5, 2, 2 (6 Total Players)

Now the teams are stacked. Team 1 has a newcomer with an unknown skill level, that wasn’t balanced by the original match balancing, while Team 2 has an extra player, and that player is a 9. So Team 2’s now has a 37 team score while Team 1 has a score ranging from 20-29, because we don’t really know how good that new player is yet.

With both of the scenarios the game might end up filling out with players, and who knows what kind of player will join your match, and I know there are many other variables, this is a simplified version of what is happening in a majority of matches.

Conclusion

So even with a PERFECT WORLD SCENARIO the Change Team function is an easy way to break the balance of any game. Hence it needs to be removed from the game, and let Shuffle do the work of balancing, along with the original match start team balancing.


TL;DR

People are using the Change Team function to Stack 1 team with good players and pub stomp. AKA Exploiting a game function.


(nokiII) #2

It’s not an exploit. If you want fixed teams with predetermined balance go play ranked.


(TheStrangerous) #3

Sure, there might be those who’d switch to the stomped team, in order to help them out, but that’s a rare occurrence.


(n-x) #4

[quote=“scorchingTongs;32435”]
So what the experienced players do is… Let the game auto select balanced teams, then when the game starts they switch to whichever side they want to be on, and after they are on a team together, they pub stomp players. They are using the feature to gain the advantage. I would consider that an Exploit.
[/quote]

Thats such BS, I cant even…

How do you know that? How? You just pulled that right out of your ass.
There are other explanations for this.

-They want to play with their friend(s) who is/are in the other team
-They want to play as attacker/defender (Objective Mode)
-They change side because the game hardly balance the teams and they want to help the weaker side out.

Most experienced players I know stomped enough noobs and are more interested in balanced games. Sure there are some dickheads, but this explanation for side switching of high level players is just pathetic. Most of the times it’s low level players who immediately start to whine if a 60+ joins the enemy team and are the first to join the enemy team if there is a spot free.


(GatoCommodore) #5

[quote=“scorchingTongs;32435”]When in a match, you can switch teams. By doing this, you can be on the team with the players you want to be with.

This is not too known for all players, most players just kinda stay on whatever team they’re put on, but a lot of more experienced players know that you can switch teams.

So what the experienced players do is… Let the game auto select balanced teams, then when the game starts they switch to whichever side they want to be on, and after they are on a team together, they pub stomp players. They are using the feature to gain the advantage. I would consider that an Exploit.

Why am I telling you this?

I want the devs to fix this problem. The game should auto-balance teams at the beginning of every match, and they should be locked in. The ONLY time it can change is if the Shuffle System is voted and agreed on.

Why is this bad?

For some players, they have a good time teaming up and playing together instead of fighting each other, so I can see how that appeals to them, BUT for other player trying out this great new game, they are getting STOMPED by the players doing this Team Stacking.

New players get frustrated that the Team Balancing is crap, they can’t win, and are just getting rolled, so they stop playing this game. Bad reviews of balance and pay 2 win are then placed on the Steam Reviews. (This is bad for your game devs.)

Overall this is terrible for everyone. New players aren’t having fun and leaving the game, Experienced players are losing their community because players are not sticking to the great game, and Devs are losing customers.

How can this Exploit be fixed?

Don’t let players switch teams. That’s it, easy fix. Put it in the next patch. Wipes hands clean


More details of how and why the feature is broken and can be Exploited.

Let’s talk about a PERFECT WORLD SCENARIO…

In a perfect world, each team would have equal skill distributed between the 2 of them. So let’s create that scenario.

Players will each have a skill level, to keep it simple will we range that skill level from 1-10.

Perfectly Balanced teams

Team 1 - 10, 9, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players) 48 Team Power

Team 2 - 10, 9, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players) 48 Team Power

I’d expect this match to be pretty fair, making for a great game experience.

So how can I exploit this perfect world?

Team 2 has a player drop from the game, unknown reason, and it was one of the 5s.

If any player from Team 1 that is above 5 changes team to Team 2 now, let’s just say the 9 switches, then Team 1 will be down a player, and Team 2 will have a Stacked Team.

The numbers would look like this.

Team 1 - 10, 8, 7, 5, 5, 2, 2 (7 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 9, 8, 7, 5, 2, 2 (8 Total Players)

So Team 1 now has about 39 total team power, while Team 2 is sitting at 52 team power.

There is still an available slot for someone to join Team 1, but the random player that joins is like rolling the dice, you are going to get a player level between 1-10, but you don’t know what level, and the game never accounted for this player in its original team balancing at the beginning of the match.

Even if Team 1 gets another 10, their team power is still only at 49 compared to Team 2 at 52 team power.

This is pretty close to being perfectly balanced, but in the end, one team is still Stacked.

Another way this can be done.

The Exploit doesn’t only rely on “if a random player drops” is at the beginning of games, if both teams aren’t completely full yet this can happen…

Team 1 - 10, 9, 5, 2, 2 (5 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 5, 2, 2 (5 Total Players)

So here we have 2 balanced teams that still have 3 slots each before the teams become full.

How can I Exploit this?

The match starts and about 2 minutes into what looks like is going to be a pretty fair and balanced game some random newcomer joins Team 1. Now Team 1 has an extra player, so anyone from Team 1 can join Team 2 if they choose to. Let’s say the 9 from Team 1 decides to switch teams. This is what it looks like after using the “Change Team” feature to stack a team.

Team 1 - 10, 5, 2, 2, ? (5 Total Players)

Team 2 - 10, 9, 9, 5, 2, 2 (6 Total Players)

Now the teams are stacked. Team 1 has a newcomer with an unknown skill level, that wasn’t balanced by the original match balancing, while Team 2 has an extra player, and that player is a 9. So Team 2’s now has a 37 team score while Team 1 has a score ranging from 20-29, because we don’t really know how good that new player is yet.

With both of the scenarios the game might end up filling out with players, and who knows what kind of player will join your match, and I know there are many other variables, this is a simplified version of what is happening in a majority of matches.

Conclusion

So even with a PERFECT WORLD SCENARIO the Change Team function is an easy way to break the balance of any game. Hence it needs to be removed from the game, and let Shuffle do the work of balancing, along with the original match start team balancing.


TL;DR

People are using the Change Team function to Stack 1 team with good players and pub stomp. AKA Exploiting a game function.[/quote]

even in Triple A games there is no such thing as balance.
you should realize, its not the game that makes the match balanced.
its you.


(vSyNd) #6

[quote=“sweetColumn;205068”]

even in Triple A games there is no such thing as balance.
you should realize, its not the game that makes the match balanced.
its you.[/quote]

Do you really have to quote the WHOLE post…


(vSyNd) #7

Ranked play queue times are a joke, I wish it was a valid option, cause then I would.


(vSyNd) #8

I didn’t pull it out of anywhere.

All you have to do is keep an eye out for this happening, and you’ll see it’s on more than 1/2 the games.

I can agree that some players do it for the right reasons, but the majority of players don’t.


I don’t understand why people are defending this Exploit… it has been and is going to kill the game.


(n-x) #9

How many hours do you have in-game?


(vSyNd) #10

Why change your original post? It’s spot on… A lot of players do this. You don’t have to conform, you can change the way things are.


(TheStrangerous) #11

Why change your original post? It’s spot on… A lot of players do this. You don’t have to conform, you can change the way things are.[/quote]

I realized that some players join, and other leave at any time. So apparently even taking away team change won’t help.

Pubs are unorganized chaos. shrugs


(n-x) #12

[quote=“scorchingTongs;205082”]

I didn’t pull it out of anywhere.

All you have to do is keep an eye out for this happening, and you’ll see it’s on more than 1/2 the games.

I can agree that some players do it for the right reasons, but the majority of players don’t.


I don’t understand why people are defending this Exploit… it has been and is going to kill the game.[/quote]

How you know that some players do it for the right reasons, but the majority of players dont. You just claim something. Have you talked to them: Did they say: “Now we are going to stack to stomp newbs!”?

Really in 1/2 of the games you have played you have seen experienced players change sides to stack to stomp? Half? Because from my experience high level players tend to switch to a lower team if that would balance the match. Of course, they wont if they end in a complete sub level 10 team and would leave a 20+ team for it.

And the question about your in-game time was no joke. I would really like to know, how much time you have actually spend in-game to make such claims.


(vSyNd) #13

[quote=“TheStrangerous;205092”]I realized that some players join, and other leave at any time. So apparently even taking away team change won’t help.

Pubs are unorganized chaos. shrugs[/quote]

There isn’t a way to perfectly fix things, I agree.

As far as I can tell Pubs are the only playable types of games. Ranked queue times are unplayable IMO. That’s a whole other topic though, so I digress.


I brought the topic up in hopes that it gets fixed, SOON. If it doesn’t get fixed soon, I’ll grow tired of watching people Exploit the system and leave.

I’m sure some people don’t care that it’s in the game, but I’ve given my piece about why it fundamentally is bad for the game, and I’ll make sure to spread the word about it’s design flaws so if they don’t fix it, it will ruin the game. Either way I guess I’ll live.


(vSyNd) #14

[quote=“Kelben;205095”]How you know that some players do it for the right reasons, but the majority of players dont. You just claim something. Have you talked to them: Did they say: “Now we are going to stack to stomp newbs!”?

Really in 1/2 of the games you have played you have seen experienced players change sides to stack to stomp? Half? Because from my experience high level players tend to switch to a lower team if that would balance the match. Of course, they wont if they end in a complete sub level 10 team and would leave a 20+ team for it.

And the question about your in-game time was no joke. I would really like to know, how much time you have actually spend in-game to make such claims.[/quote]

ye yea, my statitics aren’t 100% perfect, oh well, you get the point I’m trying to make.

Also, if I do it in 100% of the games I play, then technically the % is higher based on what I’ve seen. LUL… Don’t worry, I’ll just watch others do it.


(Nail) #15

it’s not an exploit.


(vSyNd) #16

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.


So unless the Game’s Designers wanted people to use Team Change in the way many players are doing it… then yes, it IS an Exploit.


(Nail) #17

it’s intended, it’s not a bug


(Jostabeere) #18

You have no idea. I came around so many games where people stacked teams with clanmates to win. People like @N8o did this all the time to stomp uneven teams.
Every “experienced” player would have no issue to play against his friend/s for a match when the balance would be restored. Sadly, the majority in this game doesn’t give half a steaming crap about balance and want a quick win.
And in my 700 hours I only came around two guys on a really high level who cared for balance. @LifeupOmega and ragnak.
Most high levels in pub don’t give half a crap either.


(vSyNd) #19

You didn’t read all of it, I made sure to “Bold” the part that you should have focused on. Not only Bug, but also glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed.

So it’s in there.


(n-x) #20

[quote=“Jostabeere;205105”]

You have no idea. I came around so many games where people stacked teams with clanmates to win. People like @N8o did this all the time to stomp uneven teams.
Every “experienced” player would have no issue to play against his friend/s for a match when the balance would be restored. Sadly, the majority in this game doesn’t give half a steaming crap about balance and want a quick win.
And in my 700 hours I only came around two guys on a really high level who cared for balance. @LifeupOmega and ragnak.
Most high levels in pub don’t give half a crap either.[/quote]

You are mixing 2 things together.

Yes, people are trying to get on the same team with their clan mates and yes there are douchebags who do that to pub stomp. But there are also people who just want to play with their friends / team mates. Giving half a crap about balance is not the same as purposely switching sides to stomp the weaker team.

OP claims that experienced players change sides to pub stomp. That this happens half of his games. Think about the games you had in your 700 hours. Did in half of those games people stack. And I am not talking about team mates. I am talking about one random high lvl player sees that he has the chance of teaming up with another random high lvl player on the other team. Half of your games. You played 350 hours against stacked teams…

Furthermore all this about team stacking how it is killing the game one day after the casual match making test…