K/D Ratio

(*Grim*) #41

[quote=“CLS;105155”]
I don’t see how this is relevant at all. You are not constantly planting an EMP charge or repairing an EV, nor are you giving health pack or reviving. In between, you are actually contributing to the team by killing people preventing you from moving further into the map. Hiding behind the fact that it is a team based objectif oriented game for your poor K/D ratio as a medic is just the wrong way to see it. Quick heads-up for you, you are actually contributing even more if your ratio is positive, it matters, as I said above, it is all about balance.[/quote]

First, i said my K/D tanks as a medic because i get less kills, i’m not just focused on killing but also healing, reviving ect… that doesn’t mean it goes negative. Second there’s is no hiding here, and while someone’s performance ratio of kills/death May indicate skill level, you do not need a K/D stat displayed during gameplay to accomplish it. it’s a stat based solely on an individual’s kills and death on top of the score that already includes kills and much more.

What does a player gain from having that stat shown? Well the answer is bragging rights, and that’s great except when the K/D becomes the focus on a player’s mind.

(happyVeneer) #42

While slightly off-topic, I thought about this because of what I read here, so: wouldn’t it be nice to have the shooter-type mercs (main purpose: killing enemies) gain more exp for kills than the non-shooter-types? After all, it’s much harder for them to get exp with the other tasks, as they’re too slow at it, but most of the other merc types are quite good at killing enemies (don’t get me started on the medic-types, which are way too good at killing).

In fact, maybe all mercs should get more exp for tasks that they are meant for, so Proxy would get more exp for defusing and such, while medics get more exp for healing and reviving. It would make people play more to the role they’re meant to, possibly reducing the number of players that only play medics to be able to heal themselves (often in the middle of a close combat :confused: ) even though they just want to get into the thick of the fighting.

When assuming a similar level of play, any medic or engineer getting more kills than the shooter-types just indicate a bad game balance.

(MissMurder) #43

We leave it out most of the time because we do want players to focus on working as a team and completing the objectives. I know everyone knows that already- just sayin :slight_smile:

(DaxerGT) #44

[quote=“happyVeneer;105221”]In fact, maybe all mercs should get more exp for tasks that they are meant for, so Proxy would get more exp for defusing and such, while medics get more exp for healing and reviving. It would make people play more to the role they’re meant to, possibly reducing the number of players that only play medics to be able to heal themselves (often in the middle of a close combat :confused: ) even though they just want to get into the thick of the fighting.

When assuming a similar level of play, any medic or engineer getting more kills than the shooter-types just indicate a bad game balance.[/quote]

Maybe stand alone topic this because it’s a PRO idea. Want to make grinding those dailies better, then give pub players a reason to play something other than that cobalt player they have 500 hours logged on…

(torsoreaper) #45

[quote=“CLS;105155”]
Don’t over-simplify what I said, it deserves your point. Rushing for the EV while in a cross fire is just wrong, again, don’t hide behind the fact that this is an objective game for poor play style. Obviously, it’s a matter of context, so rushing to finish that 1% totally makes sense but in general, you want to time your rush.[/quote]

It’s a fallacy that the first 1% or last 1% is worth more or less. For example, a basketball match might come down to the last 3 point shot but the actual truth is that if someone made 3 points earlier the game, the outcome would be the same.

(Fuze) #46

Thing is, certain assaulters are only good at killing and nothing else. Case and point, Phantom (which I showed the results of on page 1). At least with Fragger, you can easily damage the EV, keep the enemy at bay or defend objectives from defuse rushers with your grenade.

(*Grim*) #47

Thing is, certain assaulters are only good at killing and nothing else. Case and point, Phantom (which I showed the results of on page 1). At least with Fragger, you can easily damage the EV, keep the enemy at bay or defend objectives from defuse rushers with your grenade.[/quote]

We already have a score that incorporates everything including kills, we don’t need one just for kills.This is not a deathmatch game. What if we had a Reviving and Deaths stats for medics, thats basicly what your saying. One score is all we need.

(Fuze) #48

Thing is, certain assaulters are only good at killing and nothing else. Case and point, Phantom (which I showed the results of on page 1). At least with Fragger, you can easily damage the EV, keep the enemy at bay or defend objectives from defuse rushers with your grenade.[/quote]

We already have a score that incorporates everything including kills, we don’t need one just for kills.This is not a deathmatch game. What if we had a Reviving and Deaths stats for medics, thats basicly what your saying. One score is all we need. [/quote]

Problem: Certain mercs can ONLY kill. They don’t have a support skill and they aren’t specialists. Now then, kills don’t give jack for score, so if you’re playing an assault, your only means to place well is to kill a crud-ton of people. Even then, it’s hard to place well and you end up looking useless in the scoreboard until the end of the match when everyone realizes you’ve massacred everything and aren’t as useless as your score implies. Assaults have to work for a decent score while other mercs can just deploy, pick up, deploy, pick up, deploy, pick up etc etc their abilities for a laughably easy score farm. Does that mean they are doing their job and helping out the team? Heck no… You can just sit at spawn and get, say, 10 score per second just by spamming certain merc abilities. Most merc abilities can be exploited in this way, save for a few assaults. In other words, score in an unreliable and heavily exploitable number while k/d is the only true measure of a persons skill and usefulness in a match.

(*Grim*) #49

Thing is, certain assaulters are only good at killing and nothing else. Case and point, Phantom (which I showed the results of on page 1). At least with Fragger, you can easily damage the EV, keep the enemy at bay or defend objectives from defuse rushers with your grenade.[/quote]

We already have a score that incorporates everything including kills, we don’t need one just for kills.This is not a deathmatch game. What if we had a Reviving and Deaths stats for medics, thats basicly what your saying. One score is all we need. [/quote]

Problem: Certain mercs can ONLY kill. They don’t have a support skill and they aren’t specialists. Now then, kills don’t give jack for score, so if you’re playing an assault, your only means to place well is to kill a crud-ton of people. Even then, it’s hard to place well and you end up looking useless in the scoreboard until the end of the match when everyone realizes you’ve massacred everything and aren’t as useless as your score implies. Assaults have to work for a decent score while other mercs can just deploy, pick up, deploy, pick up, deploy, pick up etc etc their abilities for a laughably easy score farm. Does that mean they are doing their job and helping out the team? Heck no… You can just sit at spawn and get, say, 10 score per second just by spamming certain merc abilities. Most merc abilities can be exploited in this way, save for a few assaults. In other words, score in an unreliable and heavily exploitable number while k/d is the only true measure of a persons skill and usefulness in a match.[/quote]

I think you’re doing something wrong if you believe this

(SereneFlight) #50

The problem is that at the end of the match you’ll get to see your kills, deaths and kdr so personally I don’t think that really holds the water.
Besides, even if kills, deaths and kdr wouldn’t be shown anywhere, people who play the game like it was TDM would still play it like it was TDM.

(retief) #51

I like to see my k/d after a match purely to see how effective I’ve been in fights. That said, I’d love to see everyone’s xp breakdown (combat/game mode/support), and I see little reason to show other people’s k/d.

If you keep your playstyle constant, k/d is a useful metric. This is why I like to see my k/d – when I have a good k/d as sparks, that usually means that I was winning fights. A bad k/d generally means that I was missing shots or getting picked. However, k/d can vary greatly depending on playstyle and merc choice, so other people’s k/d isn’t that helpful.

(Litego) #52

K/D is given to you on the profile page. It might not be calculated for you, but you get the kills and the deaths, you can figure out the K/D yourself.

I agree that we should have stats like Support XP and Gamemode XP on the scoreboard (and on the profile page), but K/D is a valuable stat and I don’t see why we can’t have both.

[quote=“torsoreaper;104995”]As far as rushing in “like a moron”, if someone puts 25% onto the defuse and dies are they a moron? If someone puts 25% on the EV and dies are they a moron? Even if they put 5% on, at least they’re contributing. Someone sitting back trying to rack up a 5:1 K/D is not helping because we could make a team where everyone just hangs back and snipes and we all end with 5:1 K/D’s and we lose. let me repeat that, we lose. K/D isn’t an objective in any game mode I know of.

[/quote]
If someone charge in alone and put 5% on it, yes they are a moron! The not so stupid thing to do would have been to pull back and wait for his team to get there. A move that not only gives him a better chance at putting 100% on it, but also increases his K/D. So which is better? 5% contribution + 1 death or 100% contribution and 0 deaths?

(Drac0rion) #53

I like having the K/D myself, since when I notice that I have been the only engineer on my team who has done the EV repairs and got the EV past the barricade, even though we have 3 other Flethers and he isn’t even in the free rotation! That’s the point when you decide to pick up Phantom/Nader/Fragger and just enjoy the massacre while quietly crying inside that you couldn’t carry the game… :’(
at least I got the K/D to comfort me at the end of the game…

(Sussepus) #54

The problem is that at the end of the match you’ll get to see your kills, deaths and kdr so personally I don’t think that really holds the water.
Besides, even if kills, deaths and kdr wouldn’t be shown anywhere, people who play the game like it was TDM would still play it like it was TDM.[/quote]

not entirely true. many people goes tdm simply because they know kd is shown to the rest of the server. i have talked to people even admitting doing it for that reason alone.
this isnt a DB thing either. in any fps game you will see the same. KD = more people goes tdm. happens in every game where KD is an important part of the scorebard.
even just remove the D part actually helps a lot in terms of making more people playing the objective.

Just to make one thing clear. Im talking about kd showing on the scoreboard everyone sees.
On the personal stat page after a round then kd indeed should be shown along with more details about other means to win like revives, assists, ammo given, objectives attacked/defended etc.
But on the scoreboard everyone can see, score alone is enough.
theres no reason to highlight kd over other stats like revives or objectives attacked/defended.

(Samniss_Arandeen) #55

It’s the reason I see Proxies hiding from the objective when there are no enemies. Gotta keep that positive K/D yo.

We should never ever see K/D ratios. Just the amount of kills with each weapon and each Merc, and deaths by each weapon with each Merc.

(Amerika) #56

[quote=“Litego;105784”]K/D is given to you on the profile page. It might not be calculated for you, but you get the kills and the deaths, you can figure out the K/D yourself.

I agree that we should have stats like Support XP and Gamemode XP on the scoreboard (and on the profile page), but K/D is a valuable stat and I don’t see why we can’t have both.

[quote=“torsoreaper;104995”]As far as rushing in “like a moron”, if someone puts 25% onto the defuse and dies are they a moron? If someone puts 25% on the EV and dies are they a moron? Even if they put 5% on, at least they’re contributing. Someone sitting back trying to rack up a 5:1 K/D is not helping because we could make a team where everyone just hangs back and snipes and we all end with 5:1 K/D’s and we lose. let me repeat that, we lose. K/D isn’t an objective in any game mode I know of.

[/quote]
If someone charge in alone and put 5% on it, yes they are a moron! The not so stupid thing to do would have been to pull back and wait for his team to get there. A move that not only gives him a better chance at putting 100% on it, but also increases his K/D. So which is better? 5% contribution + 1 death or 100% contribution and 0 deaths?[/quote]

@Litego You can actually pull death information easier and also get your lifetime badges by using these console command - https://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/3rfwv4/how_to_see_your_total_deaths_and_total_badges/

(torsoreaper) #57

[quote=“Litego;105784”]
If someone charge in alone and put 5% on it, yes they are a moron! The not so stupid thing to do would have been to pull back and wait for his team to get there. A move that not only gives him a better chance at putting 100% on it, but also increases his K/D. So which is better? 5% contribution + 1 death or 100% contribution and 0 deaths?[/quote]

Maybe this is a circular argument but half the team caring about their K/D means that people wait for their team to run halfway to the EV and hide behind barrels plinking away and hiding when they get to 90% health while the people actually trying to repair the objective get slaughtered because there’s no cover fire.

The best teams I’ve been on are teams where mechanics are willing to die to repair the ev and people who aren’t mechanics are willing to die to protect the mechanics. The easiest wins I’ve had are when the other team plays the game like TDM and all we have to do as defenders is wait them out.

(fubar) #58

I love these type of discussions. It’s always the same, “I’m a bad player and my score reflects that, because I haven’t managed to get a single objective done - all the while I can’t seem to kill anyone either, must be because of all these other players, in my team, that I’m suffering.”

Doing objectives already gets rewarded way more than kills do anyway, so does supporting. If you’re still stuck at the bottom of the SCORE board, you’re doing it wrong. If all of you truly, truly are these “super objective minded players” that you claim to be, you’d be having no issues surpassing all these CoD kids that hunt for frags.

No one gives a shit about K/D, just like no one gives a shit about the idiot constantly rushing to the E.V and getting full every spawn because he doesn’t understand the basics of the game, but tries to justify it by “being an objective player”.
There’s a time for kills and there’s a time for objectives. You’re never going to win a game by solely going for the one or the other. The scoreboard already reflects this and your contribution to the game appropriately, why do you care? Are you really this worried about what others may think of your kill to death ratio? Do you genuinely get butthurt when the game tells you, that you’re “bad”, because it shows you your negative K/D?

Stop caring. The only thing you need to care about is whether you won or lost the game.

That being said, I still want more stats. :frowning:

ie http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/18233/sick6-newbs-feedback-post-v2/p1 : [quote=‘fubar’]
On the fly accessible stats is a thing I’m missing, coming from Quake/ET/RtCW this is definitely one of the many things I want to see in this game.
I genuinely don’t give a rats ass about those after game reports many games seem provide these days. (ie. Battlereports in the BF series, what’s up with that? Pointless to look at, doesn’t provide any useful information at all and inaccessible DURING the game).
Such as ET’s implementation of /scores, /weaponstats , /topshots would be highly favorable.
Weaponstats and Scores are great, gives me everything I need, accuracy, hits/bullets fired, kills/deaths, damage dealt and received, it’s definitely something I reckon a lot of players wouldn’t mind seeing.
More importantly, definitely not something I reckon takes a lot of extra coding? Those should be there already, in a sense or another. Keeping track of them or outputting them to file shouldn’t be too difficult of a task.
People generally love looking at their stats and scores, even if they don’t really resemble the game much, but it adds an extra layer, really.
And you can always add “Global” or “Lifetime” stats to your community site/user profiles later on if that’s something you guys had in mind. But the reality is, people care more on a “per game basis”, from what I’ve noticed.

Examples of the above:

Client Stats.log output
GamesTV console.log parser
Community console.log parser
RtCW console.log parser

If there should be any interest, I do have the source for some of these parsers. Feel free to pm and ask.

/scores & /weaponstats (used as bind in below example) console output in ET:

http://i.imgur.com/pdiN2pu.png

http://i.imgur.com/MsZHge8.png

SD Pls :([/quote]

(Litego) #59

Well, if your team is talking it slow you should wait for an opening, someone gets a kill or two, opening up the objective for capture. You can not just charge in there and expect people to have your back. You’re a stationary target that everyone on the opposite team WILL focus on, doesn’t matter if they have your back or not, they can not prevent everyone from killing you.

And no one will go hide and wait for regen at 90% HP. But charging in at 20% is a worse idea in most cases then just hanging back and waiting for regen. If you’re at 20% you can try and do damage and be a presence/annoyance, but in a as safe way as possible, don’t take risks that is likely to kill you because it will damage the team. When you’re dead you’re not contributing, so yeah, K/D does matter for objective games.

The best teams I’ve been on are teams where mechanics are willing to die to repair the ev and people who aren’t mechanics are willing to die to protect the mechanics. The easiest wins I’ve had are when the other team plays the game like TDM and all we have to do as defenders is wait them out.

No, as @fubar said, the best teams have a good mix of both. You can not win by only TDMing, and you can not win by only doing the objective. You need both, and you need to learn to balance them. But regardless of what you do, you ain’t doing shit when you’re dead.

(Daergar) #60

If k/d does not matter, why is my level shown to everyone, all the time? It leads to a long, already covered multiple times, list of unnecessary problems.

Far more than any ego boosting or ego bruising stemming from seeing a high K low D ratio (the horror).

And to anyone who claims that k/d ratio does not matter in execution, well, feel free to not be on my team. :wink: