Jumpshooting... again.

[Runeforce1]

Nah. As the silent majority, I am not really a fan. Thx though.

[Sinee]

yeah… I still don’t understand why it was removed. Rewind a second, I understand but I don’t think it is legitimate. Thats what i meant to say. Before the nerf, jump shotting was still pretty hard even if you were a legitimately good sniper with solid aim, now it is nigh impossible. Of all the things that could’ve been changed that was pretty low on the list.

Well first, the devs… Smooth and Exedore made it obvious they don’t like it. And we weren’t given much else to go on. But then they said it was because it was hard to counter because you don’t see it coming.

“Hard to counter because you don’t see it coming” doesn’t hold much water in a game like Dirty Bomb where “hard to counter because you don’t see it coming” things are pretty much the norm. But whatever. It’s a better reason than “We don’t like it so fuck you.” Not by much, though.

[MTLMortis]

Can someone get me a ohboyherewegoagain.jpg

ask and ye shall receive.

p.s. I’ll reiterate again. If they want to revert the entire jump aim rng nerf for all mercs I would have no problem with it. Reverting a jump based penalty for only a certain class would be utter bullshit.

[Sinee]

To continue on my point about the devs saying a jumping Vassili was “hard to counter because you don’t see it coming”… Just a few examples, feel free to add on.

Things in DB that are hard to counter because you don’t see them coming:

1. Phantom sitting motionless and invisible in a corner
2. Aura/Proxy rounding a corner and panic tapping a shotty in your face
3. Kira dropping a laser on your head
4. Getting stuck by Fletcher
5. A nade being tossed at you from outside your field of vision
6. Martyrdom
7. Red Eye shooting you from smoke…isn’t the point to not see it coming?
8. Mines around the corner
9. Mines near you shot by a nearby Proxy
10. Mines period…isn’t the whole point to catch you by surprise?
11. Turret in a fuck ass location
12. Catching the invisible edge of an airstrike when you weren’t there for the marker toss
13. Panic-thrown molotovs to the face

All of these are hard to counter and take a lot less brain-power than sniping, but they can be countered, with better awareness, tactical playing, thinking…

But Vassili jumping against a wall is too much and can’t be countered? Come the fuck on. A jumping Vassili may have been difficult, but he could be countered just like all of these, with better awareness, tactical playing, common fucking sense…

DB is difficult. It’s also cheap. But that’s part of the territory and I don’t want these things removed no more than anyone else. I just don’t get why Vassili was apparently a problem compared to everything else. Him being mobile was more than fair enough given what he has going for him and the environment he’s in.

[Amerika]

[quote=“blonk;159557”]Can someone get me a ohboyherewegoagain.jpg

ask and ye shall receive.

p.s. I’ll reiterate again. If they want to revert the entire jump aim rng nerf for all mercs I would have no problem with it. Reverting a jump based penalty for only a certain class would be utter bullshit.[/quote]

Hey, I’d be all for that. Because barely anything was changed with most guns. But bolt-actions got completely neutered and a playstyle entirely removed from the game. BTW, bolt-action rifles aren’t a class or a specific merc. Depending on Aimee’s loadout dictates how big of a problem this is for her too. That’s just a nitpck though.

A bolt-action can’t hipfire accurately like every other gun in the game. But due to your response it means you’d be all for it. Correct?

[MTLMortis]

A bolt-action can’t hipfire accurately like every other gun in the game. But due to your response it means you’d be all for it. Correct?

No, because they aren’t the same thing at all. Movement (jumping/world physics) isn’t weapon stats/handling. They are completely separate categories.

Unless you want to remove bullet damage drop off for all guns not just bolt-actions. Then sure.

[Rjsto]

[quote=“Amerika;159648”]A bolt-action can’t hipfire accurately like every other gun in the game. But due to your response it means you’d be all for it. Correct?

No, because they aren’t the same thing at all. Movement (jumping/world physics) isn’t weapon stats/handling. They are completely separate categories.

Unless you want to remove bullet damage drop off for all guns not just bolt-actions. Then sure.[/quote]

I think jumpsniping would go into the weapon handling category though, if they really had to be categorized like that. You ARE handling the gun quite a bit when you are shooting it, mid air no less. Or same way, hipfiring could go into movement category since you are slowed down quite a bit when you ads

[MTLMortis]

I think jumpsniping would go into the weapon handling category though, if they really had to be categorized like that. You ARE handling the gun quite a bit when you are shooting it, mid air no less. Or same way, hipfiring could go into movement category since you are slowed down quite a bit when you ads

It doesn’t.

Weapon stats are things like rate of fire, damage per bullet, damage drop off, hip fire vs ads accuracy, recoil and bullet spread.

Those are the weapon stats when standing still firing the weapon.

Movement adds to all of those stats with jumping applying the highest negative to the relevant stats.

The two are related but not the same thing at all.

To clarify:

They aren’t assigning a stat for accuracy while jumping to every weapon. They are assigning a negative to bullet aim while jumping that is uniformly applied across all weapons.

[Jostabeere]

2. Kira dropping a laser on your head
3. Getting stuck by Fletcher
4. Martyrdom
5. Red Eye shooting you from smoke…isn’t the point to not see it coming?
6. Mines around the corner
7. Mines near you shot by a nearby Proxy
8. Mines period…isn’t the whole point to catch you by surprise?
9. Turret in a fuck ass location

Here we go again.
None of them are frustating hard to counter.
These particular ones are easy to counter.

1. You see the marker on the ground. If you miss a red light in you, well, that’s bad luck
2. Kill FLetcher, bomb falls off
3. Simply don’t go near the nader/longjump away since the nade need some seconds to go off.
4. Avoid smoke. That easy. It will go away in some seconds. If you see smoke and you’re spotted, jump away.
   5., 6., 7. Even though I hate mines, people always say they’re beeping and have a red ring around them.
5. The turret makes noise. Hearable from…I believe approx. 10 meters.
   The other ones are harder, and may end up in your death, but can’t be done permanent or for a long period of time.
   Even though I heavily disagree with reverting the nerf to the point as it was before, I would not mind it return, but with other restrictions for a Vassili like high sight sway while midair or something similar.

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“RazielWarmonic;159570”]I personally miss jump sniping.

I mean, I was never good at Vassili, but I just like the option of the movement.

Alas, if I had my way, the game would probably be a lazer accuracy gun fest. :U (this is why I am on community and not game design. I would probably suck at it.) [/quote]

[Matuno1]

[quote=“Jesus;159627”][quote=“Matuno;159382”]people were doing just that.
[/quote]

Thats like a joke i play since september i have like 680 hours according to steam I played mostly public and I dont remember once being jumpshotted to the point of even being annoyed. So the “it was hard to counter in public and people were doing that” isnt really of any credibility to me. Maybe some people were doing it a lot in higher competitive scene, but hey its competitive you gotta expect people using every aspect of a merc to do shit like that. This was hard to counter. fucking please when someone throw you a cooked grenade that explode right in your face you cant counter it either so what ? Nerf the cooking mechanic ? Thats a fucking joke.

This game isn’t built around you.

Thats a very easy thing to say when its a merc you dont play and dont like to play against that is getting it.[/quote]

Oh please. I’m a fairly good player and nearing lvl 70. On a good day, I’m an absolute twitch beast with Vassili. I’ve been on the right side of the scope more often than on the wrong side. Much as I enjoyed having the “option” to jumpsnipe, I don’t miss it at all and I, for one, see why it needed to go.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Amerika;159648”]A bolt-action can’t hipfire accurately like every other gun in the game. But due to your response it means you’d be all for it. Correct?

No, because they aren’t the same thing at all. Movement (jumping/world physics) isn’t weapon stats/handling. They are completely separate categories.

Unless you want to remove bullet damage drop off for all guns not just bolt-actions. Then sure.[/quote]

How weapons work while jumping, on the ground, iron-sights up and shot from the hip are all part of balancing weapons. You’re cherry picking.

[Ritobasu]

On an unrelated note, please remove the jump shooting penalty from Rhino’s minigun too

[Merci1ess]

[quote=“Matuno;159661”][quote=“Jesus;159627”][quote=“Matuno;159382”]people were doing just that.
[/quote]

Thats like a joke i play since september i have like 680 hours according to steam I played mostly public and I dont remember once being jumpshotted to the point of even being annoyed. So the “it was hard to counter in public and people were doing that” isnt really of any credibility to me. Maybe some people were doing it a lot in higher competitive scene, but hey its competitive you gotta expect people using every aspect of a merc to do shit like that. This was hard to counter. fucking please when someone throw you a cooked grenade that explode right in your face you cant counter it either so what ? Nerf the cooking mechanic ? Thats a fucking joke.

This game isn’t built around you.

Thats a very easy thing to say when its a merc you dont play and dont like to play against that is getting it.[/quote]

Oh please. I’m a fairly good player and nearing lvl 70. On a good day, I’m an absolute twitch beast with Vassili. I’ve been on the right side of the scope more often than on the wrong side. Much as I enjoyed having the “option” to jumpsnipe, I don’t miss it at all and I, for one, see why it needed to go.[/quote]

I’m 24 years old, never studied in medical school but… I cured cancer. See what I did there?

I’m not saying you’re full of shit. Maybe you are good with him but I think the reason why you’re indifferent is probably because you don’t main him. I main Vassili. I’m good with Fragger… I’m good with Arty, I’m good with Phoenix. If they get nerfed I can careless, I don’t use them as much as I use my main merc. Sure I will point out if I feel as if it feels right or wrong… But at the end of the day it doesn’t affect me.

http://puu.sh/nKc7i/40fd48d5dd.jpg

[Sinee]

Oh please. I’m a fairly good player and nearing lvl 70. On a good day, I’m an absolute twitch beast with Vassili. I’ve been on the right side of the scope more often than on the wrong side. Much as I enjoyed having the “option” to jumpsnipe, I don’t miss it at all and I, for one, see why it needed to go.

Ok. What’re your stats on Vassili/bolt action? Time, kills… Just curious. I can’t imagine how anyone who mains him or at least usually has him in their loadout would ever see how this was a good idea. But hey, maybe I’m wrong.

[BerylRdm]

So, if that’s the issue maybe all of you record whole match as Vassili and then compare your stats and only then discuss. If that’s important.

[Sinee]

It wasn’t really important, although it is important for someone to actually use him some before they start acting like they know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Matuno started gloating everywhere so, I’m just curious what he’s working with personally. Not really pertinent to the conversation, just idle curiosity.

[Dufayne]

You know, considering this game is in Beta, SD seemed too focused on small nuances of specific mercs rather than gaping problems needing fixed. I mean, as a recon I too am I’m thrown off by snipers with the shooting reflexes of Mercy considering I’m an b- on shooter skills… But skills and challenge are the ‘supposed’ definition of the game. I often give props to opponents who master harder classes, and considering the number of lvl4 snipers in pubs, I appreciate a good sniper. Also, once it’s run into in a game, anyone with sense will jump and strafe more. Just as they will look around corners for mines when a proxy is on the field.

What is so irksome is the need for SD to add this nerf when larger problems need fixed. I mean, since the subject of things you can’t expect in a game are raised…I Shouldn’t expect to be spawn camped from behind when I enter a game…that is both frustrating AND skilled…Yet where is the fix for this problem? But to answer that is a whole different subject.

My point is, for being a Beta, SD should be focusing on larger exploitive issues over smaller nuances that literally limit skill level. When it comes to getting this game to become more popular, newbies aren’t as turned off about the occasional aggro sniper as they are about constant matchmaking issues or other problem areas. SD needs to due away with these skill limiting nerfs and focus on the bigger problems at hand.

[Jostabeere]

kills

[Matuno1]

[quote=“Mercy;159686”]It wasn’t really important, although it is important for someone to actually use him some before they start acting like they know what the fuck they’re talking about.

Matuno started gloating everywhere so, I’m just curious what he’s working with personally. Not really pertinent to the conversation, just idle curiosity.[/quote]
“Everywhere”.
No, jackass, I was responding to Jesus who was implying that it’s “Thats a very easy thing to say when its a merc you dont play and dont like to play against that is getting it.”. I’ve spoken out against mercs that I’ve loved playing because I actually give two shits about the overall game experience and enjoyability for all.

I’m on a measle 17:25 hours with 22,585 kills, which is close to @Merciless (3.03 kills per minute versus 3.12 for him). I don’t get to play him very often because I’m not interested in being the third sniper on the team, though it doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy playing him.

When I do play Vassili, I don’t camp a corner (heck, don’t think you can even kill much like that). I play him in that very same mobile role that you’re so eager to claim he is no longer capable of. On the frontline, flanking defenders.

EDIT:

I main Vassili.

And here’s the problem that makes you so narrowsighted. If you don’t know what life is like OUTSIDE the scope, how can you claim to understand the balance of things?
Also, though some mercs may be more favourable for you, you really shouldn’t have a “main”.