[quote=“RazielWarmonic;159570”]I personally miss jump sniping. 
I mean, I was never good at Vassili, but I just like the option of the movement.
Alas, if I had my way, the game would probably be a lazer accuracy gun fest. :U (this is why I am on community and not game design. I would probably suck at it.) [/quote]
I would love that. Heck, doesn’t even have to be lazer accuracy, just sneak in and comment out the code for aimpunch and explosion shakes. I’d be in FPS heaven!
[quote=“Sploosh;159567”]There are plenty of counters to a jumping Vassili. Some examples in particular are Arty’s airstrike or Kira’s laser. Both of which can easily kill or stop a Vassili from taking that same position again. Although good Vassilis can hold down an area, you can just as easily take him out with your nade spam or swift Aura.
It was pointless to nerf Vassili. That just took a huge chunk out of his playstyle and is one step further to making this game an even more linear, generic FPS.
I’ve adapted to this new playstyle, but it’s very boring and just not like it was. At least give Vassili a second ability. [/quote]
What do you do on Underground?
Also, it’s funny you say “linear, generic FPS” while CoD and BF both being linear, generic FPS allow to snipe wile jumping. Even jumping noscopes are possible.
I outlined the pros/cons/uses of jump sniping in a previous thread so I might as well repeat them here. You are easy to flank as your vision is heavily restricted and you’re extremely vulnerable to explosives that can reach. So Fragger nades, Fletcher stickies, Nader nades and even Thunder’s grenade helps his slow ass flank easily. It’s also extremely hard to do consistently in a game as fast as DB. Right now you can only peek and it severely restricts your ability to step out and take a shot because you’ll end up with a player like me on the other side who will burst your head down before you can acquire me and take a shot. Currently, I only have to cover the peek areas where before a bolt-action player had a lot more options to deal with that situation.
Here is an example of what is no longer possible and something many might not have thought of. This is assuming I was a sniper in the situation outlined above. Before the patch I could jump off a wall and take a low percentage shot which would force the guy, who is sitting there with ADS up and ready to drill my head when I peeked, and cause him to retreat a bit or force him into a bad flank. Or at least make them constantly move themselves and their crosshair around. If I force a bad flank I’m prepared with an mp400 because I’ll see him move. In case where I force him to retreat I could either stay where I am at and then peek effectively or I could push him with my mp400 and allowing me to be more mobile. Or, if they were dumb, they would sit in the exact same spot and let me take their head off. This example where all of those options that requires critical thinking on your part, as the sniper, and their part as a player are now gone and dulled.
I know this because I play bolt-action at a high level and I know what kills me and I play against them and I know how to kill them.
It was a hard to use tool that allowed Vas to be more mobile on maps and it helped raise the skill ceiling in DB and it also forced people to learn new strategies to beat a player who could use it effectively. Now sniping is watered down and trivial to play as since your choices are limited and trivial to counter since you don’t have to deal with more than the 1-2 peek options so being anywhere near the actual fighting as a bolt-action is super high risk.
And for anybody trying to make the consistency argument then you need to remember that you can’t fire sniper rifles from the hip with full or even close to full accuracy but you can with every other weapon in the game. Each weapon should be balanced with different mechanics as to give the devs more balance dials and to make the game more interesting and varied. Not a homogenized mess so people can turn off their brains and play better.
From doing comp and scrims against good vaselines, i havent really seen jumpshooping being a problem. It’s kind of one of those gimmicky things that work well in certainnnnnn scenarios, dont see any point in nerfing.
If a vasilly is good enough to get the dank headshots errtime, id rather them shooting from behind a box they have a split second to peek over than instapooping on anyone in their line of sight.
if its about pubs i mean like if sumone is gud dey gunna poop on pub ppl anyways
People here are talking as if Vassili was so overpowered and was a big problem. Like @Dog said, if you came up with a conversation involving things that were annoying and frustrating in Dirty Bomb, jump-sniping Vassilis would most likely not be on the list. Sure as fuck wouldn’t be the number 1 thing. How many times has it happened to you that one Vassili would lock down the whole street on Chapel? I mean seriously. People act like this was happening every single time they played.
I’ve played DB for a long time. I remember in the beginning when I played Vas I thought I was a bad ass until I met one person who schooled the absolute fuck outta me. I mean this guy would jump and snipe me in between my eyes real fast. I was a Quake/Unreal Tournament player but was used to the new generation of games like CoD, CS:GO, Battlefield… etc, so jumping and sniping never really occurred to me until I saw this guy. Name was Hugh Laurie. I was just 0 challenge for this guy. I met him a few months later and at that point, I was as much a challenge to him as he was to me. My point being that I have never met a sniper better or as good as Hugh Laurie within close to 700 hours of game time. I’ve met other guys that were good… but they weren’t as good. They were decent and weren’t as good at jump-sniping. Then people say it happened frequently? That’s bull.
Which is funny because I played against Hugh’s Vas recently (even have it up on YT somewhere) and he didn’t exactly do well. Which had nothing to do with him as a player, he’s damn good. It had everything to do with the limited options Vas has now with a bolt-action requiring him to simply try and avoid people as much as possible as opposed to engage.
Which is to be expected of course with the limitations. I’m just glad I’m not the only one to struggle sometimes.
Ahh, that’s a pity to hear about… I remember we played against him back when we were lil’ noobs and the level of raw skill just blew our minds. Lit a fire under Merciless’ ass and he worked hard to get up there and got really good to compete with MLG snipers like that.
Hugh, Guilte, Aculite, some others… The skill ceiling they’d set was ridiculous. I remember watching vids last year and just being amazed at the handiwork it took.
Then Vassili gets this string of nerfs… the gibbing I could try and understand, especially for the comp scene, but rooting him to the ground in a left-and-right strafe at best cause someone doesn’t like it was overboard. It makes Vas an easy target. It’s boring unvaried gameplay… It still just really burns my biscuits, you know? Especially given the time and effort to master. It was such a rare tactic because of that and hardly a widespread issue because of that. Most don’t even play Vassili at all because he’s so fucking difficult. I know I’ve been trying for months to get better with him. It’s hard, but so much more rewarding/satisfying than most things in DB because of how difficult it is.
I’m just glad to see so many agrees and as always, your very well-worded points because I don’t think this weird and problematic nerf should be ignored.
Personally, even though I’m far from being a good vassili, I’d totally go for a return of the original situation.
Not only because it never did a true difference except in very few situations, where it was still in favor of inventive snipers against close range threats and gave a bit of equity, but also, and mainly for that reason, because it’s just overlapping with too many things already existing in the game. Stacking ideas and mechanics on top of each other rarely ends well in terms of the overall gameplay consistency.
And this, instead of just losing the jumpshot capabilities, made me rather angry, due to the “this is pure nonsense !” feeling. From my point of view, the jumpshotting penalty feels totally out of context here in DB. Bolt action snipers are now badly crippled and forced to stay further than middle range, which does not fit the game, even for mercs like Vassili.
[quote=“Mercy;159597”]
I’m just glad to see so many agrees.[/quote]
Which does not necessarily make it right. Many people agreed with Hitler. And many people agree with Trump. Or the recent ~%25 voters support for the “Nazi”-party in Saxony-Anhalt here in Germany which say refugees should be banned. Just an example.
[quote=“Jostabeere;159601”][quote=“Mercy;159597”]
I’m just glad to see so many agrees.[/quote]
Which does not necessarily make it right. Many people agreed with Hitler. And many people agree with Trump. Or the recent ~%25 voters support for the “Nazi”-party in Saxony-Anhalt here in Germany which say refugees should be banned. Just an example.
[/quote]
Did you seriously just compare some people agreeing about not liking a nerf in a video game to Hitler?
Can you please not @Mercy or anything. Just pretend I don’t exist. Ty.
Hmm… All very good points being made… Honestly if this isn’t fixed with the Aimee update I will be a little mad. I played Vassili since level 5, up until level 15… I switched to Fletcher then (Yep, im an annoying bunny hopping lil bish) Back then i beleive je was 50k credits… Maybe im wrong…
When i was level 5 it was Augest 2015. I loved Vassili. Playing him and doing well made me feel l33t mLg pr0. Now he feels like a chore to play… If this jump sniping gets fixed i might have a better time with Aimee anyway.
[quote=“B. Montiel;159600”]Personally, even though I’m far from being a good vassili, I’d totally go for a return of the original situation.
Not only because it never did a true difference except in very few situations, where it was still in favor of inventive snipers against close range threats and gave a bit of equity, but also, and mainly for that reason, because it’s just overlapping with too many things already existing in the game. Stacking ideas and mechanics on top of each other rarely ends well in terms of the overall gameplay consistency.
And this, instead of just losing the jumpshot capabilities, made me rather angry, due to the “this is pure nonsense !” feeling. From my point of view, the jumpshotting penalty feels totally out of context here in DB. Bolt action snipers are now badly crippled and forced to stay further than middle range, which does not fit the game, even for mercs like Vassili.[/quote]
Completely agree. It was just weird and sort of out of the blue, wasn’t it? It never seemed to be a problem and certainly wasn’t game-breaking. Very rarely did someone complain about it; probably because everyone could jump shoot. It was just part of the territory of the game. If you could accept the lack of physics and logic of a little Proxy being able to jump shoot a shotgun then obviously the same applied to Vassili and no one really seemed to think twice about it.
I wouldn’t have minded them going about it in a different way but rooting him to the ground was just too much. It’s great for everyone else who doesn’t play Vassili, but what about the people who play Vassili? It just seems like an oversight to the actual Vassili players too. That’s why it seems unfair. Cause it is.
I can probably count with both of my hands the times I’ve been killed by jump sniping…and still have fingers left over…heck I may only need one hand…
It’s stupid people are alright with bunny hopping shotguns, that take no skill and relying on luck…but something that takes skill and patience they’re afraid of.
Well you know what…I’ve been killed more by bunny hopping shotgunners, nades bouncing of walls at the right time just when I run in, and stickies flying over walls or bunny hopping Fletcher.
So lets nerf them…first off shot guns should have unnatural unpredictable spread while jumping…second…no more bouncing nades…if they hit something solid…even a wall…they explode…third…lets throw in unpredictable stickies…they can go off in any direction…you want to toss them at the Kira as you’re jumping? “Whoops” instead of down below they went blasting off again! Into the sky…
So if it isn’t fair that Vassili can jump shot then it isn’t fair that these mercs have advantages…lets just take out any skill based abilities we don’t like till the game is watered down and boring for any merc to play!
Why nerf one merc when we can nerf them all?!?
[quote=“Mercy;159609”][quote=“Jostabeere;159601”][quote=“Mercy;159597”]
I’m just glad to see so many agrees.[/quote]
Which does not necessarily make it right. Many people agreed with Hitler. And many people agree with Trump. Or the recent ~%25 voters support for the “Nazi”-party in Saxony-Anhalt here in Germany which say refugees should be banned. Just an example.
[/quote]
Did you seriously just compare some people agreeing about not liking a nerf in a video game to Hitler?
Can you please not @Mercy or anything. Just pretend I don’t exist. Ty.[/quote]
@Mercy
I did. It was a hypothetical comparsion. The same way you compare the sniper rifle to sticky bombs and say “you throw them 50 miles”.
[quote=“Sorotia;159615”]I can probably count with both of my hands the times I’ve been killed by jump sniping…and still have fingers left over…heck I may only need one hand…
It’s stupid people are alright with bunny hopping shotguns, that take no skill and relying on luck…but something that takes skill and patience they’re afraid of.
Well you know what…I’ve been killed more by bunny hopping shotgunners, nades bouncing of walls at the right time just when I run in, and stickies flying over walls or bunny hopping Fletcher.
So lets nerf them…first off shot guns should have unnatural unpredictable spread while jumping…second…no more bouncing nades…if they hit something solid…even a wall…they explode…third…lets throw in unpredictable stickies…they can go off in any direction…you want to toss them at the Kira as you’re jumping? “Whoops” instead of down below they went blasting off again! Into the sky…
So if it isn’t fair that Vassili can jump shot then it isn’t fair that these mercs have advantages…lets just take out any skill based abilities we don’t like till the game is watered down and boring for any merc to play!
Why nerf one merc when we can nerf them all?!?
[/quote]
<3 <3 <3
This is pretty much the exact way @Merciless and I feel, and other sniper-mains we’ve spoken to in-game, the rare few we find who are higher levels and use him. But we don’t want everything to be nerfed (Fletcher however…but that’s another story). We just want Vassili to have the tools necessary to compete in the environment (as you described) that he’s in. If everyone else can do all this stupid shit then Vassili should be able to have what he needs to stay afloat in the clusterfuck.
Right now, rooting him to the ground was just a little too much, seeing as he has nothing else going for him… no real abilities besides a blinky. But I’d be open to other adjustments besides cutting off his legs. That was just overkill to me and it seems unfair cause of… well, all of that that was described.
[quote=“Matuno;159382”]people were doing just that.
[/quote]
Thats like a joke i play since september i have like 680 hours according to steam I played mostly public and I dont remember once being jumpshotted to the point of even being annoyed. So the “it was hard to counter in public and people were doing that” isnt really of any credibility to me. Maybe some people were doing it a lot in higher competitive scene, but hey its competitive you gotta expect people using every aspect of a merc to do shit like that. This was hard to counter. fucking please when someone throw you a cooked grenade that explode right in your face you cant counter it either so what ? Nerf the cooking mechanic ? Thats a fucking joke.
Thats a very easy thing to say when its a merc you dont play and dont like to play against that is getting it.
yeah… I still don’t understand why it was removed. Rewind a second, I understand but I don’t think it is legitimate. Thats what i meant to say. Before the nerf, jump shotting was still pretty hard even if you were a legitimately good sniper with solid aim, now it is nigh impossible. Of all the things that could’ve been changed that was pretty low on the list.
