Is Nexon actually banning anyone right now?

(KUST__LunarTM) #121

[quote=“Jostabeere;209889”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;209820”]Expecting anti cheat to stop every single hack is like expecting the police to stop every single crime before it happens.

cough cough Winter Soldier cough cough[/quote]

I am playing a different online shooter that had multiple free and vip hacks. The devs bought BattleEye, and in one day the anticheat broke the neck of all hack for this game. Now it’s hack-free.
Just some random trivia. But such cases actually exist.[/quote]

That reminds me of an incident on Combat Arms years ago. Long ago, Combat Arms had a very old anti cheat that didn’t work all that well. One of the biggest hacks on the market for it was by a group/company/whatever called Black Cipher.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I think Combat Arms may have bought Black Cipher to instead write anti-cheat for them, because one day instead of the normal anti-cheat they had, it loaded up with an anti-cheat system from Black Cipher. From there on out, the amount of hackers in the the game dropped ridiculously significantly.

Since that day, I have rarely ever seen hackers in game. There are a few cheeky ones here and there, but they don’t last long before the anti-cheat updates and shuts them down.

(GatoCommodore) #122

@Amerika can we vote to add Weekly security patch?

or such thing already exsist?

(Ardez1) #123

[quote=“sweetColumn;210340”]@Amerika can we vote to add Weekly security patch?

or such thing already exsist?
[/quote]

NGS is updated on the server. When NGS is updated you don’t download anything and NGS doesn’t require a program change to detect new cheats. It is similar to how anti-virus works minus heuristics. You identify a ‘bad’ process or exe and when NGS detects it then it gets shut down. A lot of effort goes into determing what is ‘good’ and what is ‘bad’. The problem is if Nexon mis-identifies something as bad there could be a ton of false flags. They have to be 100% certain before adding anything to the list. That means research and data collection out the wazoo.

So weekly updates? Nothing would be public. Besides, why warn cheaters every time NGS gets an item added to the list. :slight_smile: Catch 'em red handed.

AFAIK. This is mostly speculation.

(Amerika) #124

[quote=“KUST__LunarTM;210324”][quote=“Jostabeere;209889”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;209820”]Expecting anti cheat to stop every single hack is like expecting the police to stop every single crime before it happens.

cough cough Winter Soldier cough cough[/quote]

I am playing a different online shooter that had multiple free and vip hacks. The devs bought BattleEye, and in one day the anticheat broke the neck of all hack for this game. Now it’s hack-free.
Just some random trivia. But such cases actually exist.[/quote]

That reminds me of an incident on Combat Arms years ago. Long ago, Combat Arms had a very old anti cheat that didn’t work all that well. One of the biggest hacks on the market for it was by a group/company/whatever called Black Cipher.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I think Combat Arms may have bought Black Cipher to instead write anti-cheat for them, because one day instead of the normal anti-cheat they had, it loaded up with an anti-cheat system from Black Cipher. From there on out, the amount of hackers in the the game dropped ridiculously significantly.

Since that day, I have rarely ever seen hackers in game. There are a few cheeky ones here and there, but they don’t last long before the anti-cheat updates and shuts them down.[/quote]

NGS, aka Nexon Game Security that DB uses, was Black Cipher.

[quote=“sweetColumn;210340”]@Amerika can we vote to add Weekly security patch?

or such thing already exsist?
[/quote]

NGS updates independently of the game. It updates pretty frequently. The issue is that there is no magic wand to simply stop cheating. The cheats have to be released and be found or at least some part of them be released and easily be detected, within the limits of the law (cyber-security laws and personal privacy are huge issues on the internet that also, incidentally, extremely limit many anti-cheat solutions).

I’ve posted in the past, quite a few times, on how layering anti-cheat solutions is the best thing and I went into details about what DB offers and what is possible for it to offer and compared it to what a best case scenario solution is. DB is far from perfect when it comes to a full AC suite that is best case. But it does a hell of a lot better job than most games.

(GatoCommodore) #125

does anti cheat systems ruining performance?

(KUST__LunarTM) #126

[quote=“Amerika;210405”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;210324”][quote=“Jostabeere;209889”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;209820”]Expecting anti cheat to stop every single hack is like expecting the police to stop every single crime before it happens.

cough cough Winter Soldier cough cough[/quote]

I am playing a different online shooter that had multiple free and vip hacks. The devs bought BattleEye, and in one day the anticheat broke the neck of all hack for this game. Now it’s hack-free.
Just some random trivia. But such cases actually exist.[/quote]

That reminds me of an incident on Combat Arms years ago. Long ago, Combat Arms had a very old anti cheat that didn’t work all that well. One of the biggest hacks on the market for it was by a group/company/whatever called Black Cipher.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I think Combat Arms may have bought Black Cipher to instead write anti-cheat for them, because one day instead of the normal anti-cheat they had, it loaded up with an anti-cheat system from Black Cipher. From there on out, the amount of hackers in the the game dropped ridiculously significantly.

Since that day, I have rarely ever seen hackers in game. There are a few cheeky ones here and there, but they don’t last long before the anti-cheat updates and shuts them down.[/quote]

NGS, aka Nexon Game Security that DB uses, was Black Cipher.
[/quote]

Just to clarify, there were (as far as I’m aware of) three named anti-cheats that Nexon used, the first being the one before Black Cipher that I cannot remember the name for, then we had Black Cipher, and then NGS which is built off BC. Or is NGS literally just BC renamed?

(Xenithos) #127

[quote=“KUST__LunarTM;210324”][quote=“Jostabeere;209889”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;209820”]Expecting anti cheat to stop every single hack is like expecting the police to stop every single crime before it happens.

cough cough Winter Soldier cough cough[/quote]

I am playing a different online shooter that had multiple free and vip hacks. The devs bought BattleEye, and in one day the anticheat broke the neck of all hack for this game. Now it’s hack-free.
Just some random trivia. But such cases actually exist.[/quote]

That reminds me of an incident on Combat Arms years ago. Long ago, Combat Arms had a very old anti cheat that didn’t work all that well. One of the biggest hacks on the market for it was by a group/company/whatever called Black Cipher.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I think Combat Arms may have bought Black Cipher to instead write anti-cheat for them, because one day instead of the normal anti-cheat they had, it loaded up with an anti-cheat system from Black Cipher. From there on out, the amount of hackers in the the game dropped ridiculously significantly.

Since that day, I have rarely ever seen hackers in game. There are a few cheeky ones here and there, but they don’t last long before the anti-cheat updates and shuts them down.[/quote]

Actually, that’s probably what Josta was referring to. Even if he wasn’t I lived through that hacker shutdown… It was impressive to say the least.

I mean, CA had so many hackers that you were almost guaranteed to run into one on a daily basis. I don’t know if they actually bought the company to make anti-cheat for them, but I do know that whatever they did worked. If I remember correctly, that was sometime after the second anniversary…

I’m 90% positive that Black Cipher was put into the game twice actually… Once, and all hackers were gone for a week roughly, and then it was causing issues… So they removed it and added it back in later.

(Ardez1) #128

[quote=“KUST__LunarTM;210425”][quote=“Amerika;210405”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;210324”][quote=“Jostabeere;209889”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;209820”]Expecting anti cheat to stop every single hack is like expecting the police to stop every single crime before it happens.

cough cough Winter Soldier cough cough[/quote]

I am playing a different online shooter that had multiple free and vip hacks. The devs bought BattleEye, and in one day the anticheat broke the neck of all hack for this game. Now it’s hack-free.
Just some random trivia. But such cases actually exist.[/quote]

That reminds me of an incident on Combat Arms years ago. Long ago, Combat Arms had a very old anti cheat that didn’t work all that well. One of the biggest hacks on the market for it was by a group/company/whatever called Black Cipher.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but I think Combat Arms may have bought Black Cipher to instead write anti-cheat for them, because one day instead of the normal anti-cheat they had, it loaded up with an anti-cheat system from Black Cipher. From there on out, the amount of hackers in the the game dropped ridiculously significantly.

Since that day, I have rarely ever seen hackers in game. There are a few cheeky ones here and there, but they don’t last long before the anti-cheat updates and shuts them down.[/quote]

NGS, aka Nexon Game Security that DB uses, was Black Cipher.
[/quote]

Just to clarify, there were (as far as I’m aware of) three named anti-cheats that Nexon used, the first being the one before Black Cipher that I cannot remember the name for, then we had Black Cipher, and then NGS which is built off BC. Or is NGS literally just BC renamed?[/quote]

AFAIK, the core of NGS is Black Cipher, but a lot of work was put into it to make it the NGS that you see today.

(Donbot) #129

Just out of curiosity. If a hacker goes unreported, does Dirty Bomb even have a system to identify suspicious play and ban them? I feel like a lot of people either don’t report or just don’t bother.

(K1X455) #130

Ask yourself this: What do you get for reporting a cheater? I’ve done it so many times, and they come back… with more finesse. I even got a funny story of one. I’ll keep him in my STEAM friends for a while because I want to monitor his “game play activities” cause he’s been reported by so many other players, including me, and he’s still playing.

(Jostabeere) #131

[quote=“K1X455;210855”]

Ask yourself this: What do you get for reporting a cheater? I’ve done it so many times, and they come back… with more finesse. I even got a funny story of one. I’ll keep him in my STEAM friends for a while because I want to monitor his “game play activities” cause he’s been reported by so many other players, including me, and he’s still playing.[/quote]

Last cheater I even spent time on reporting took 3 people and him streaming with hack on before he got banned. For some reason a video of him wallhacking and prefiring corners wasn’t enough. Gave up after that.

(The_N00Ba) #132

Honestly I don’t think 1 video is enough to build a case unless it is a confession video or a video from the cheater themselves. Maybe 100 videos from a hundred different sources but I don’t see that many people doing that.

(doxjq) #133

One video is more than enough if they’re blatantly hacking with their aimbot on maximum settings lol.

(K1X455) #134

What makes me wonder about NGS is how much human intervention is required that it takes time to effect an action (ASS U Ming a ban action is done). What discourages me is repeat offenders… and now the most frustrating is the high level ones (above lvl20) who think their discrete hacking will prevent them from playing again. Consider a lvl160+ wallhacking, 107 applying trigger/snap lock aiming bots.

(Jostabeere) #135

I think a video that shows a player playing Vasili and prefiring corners where enemies come out half a sec later without the heartbeat sensor multiple times and straigtout trying to wallbang people he doesn’t see is proof enough of a cheater. Good thing the spec showed enemy names behind walls. He wasn’t my first report, and people got banned for far less. Yet I had to convince Radrodo for a while and it took 2 more people and himself to finally get him banned.
I have no idea if the fact that he spent around ~300$ on this game before and during his cheater rampage was somehow an important point.

(The_N00Ba) #136

That’s the thing I think. Unless the cheater themselves records themselves cheating, I believe most video are really nothing more than circumstantial evidence.

I say this because I think for most of these video if you took it to court many defense lawyers could just destroy the case easily. That’s just me of course.

I don’t think one video is enough. Many need to be collected so there is redundancy so even a defense lawyer has a hard time building a case against it. And building a case takes time. Sadly not every one has the patience for that.

I do think if people really want the cheaters gone more evidence needs to be collected though. Working together to collect evidence might not be a bad idea either.

I think it is important to build a solid case. It should also not be assumed people will see what you see in one video, which is again why I suggest gathering several.

Just some thoughts though. :slight_smile:

(doxjq) #137

Sadly I want to know the same thing @Jostabeere. I’ve noticed a trend in new accounts using default cards being banned instantly, and people hacking who have spent money on cosmetics and trinkets taking much, much longer (some still haven’t been banned)

If anyone is going to argue “maybe they are not hacking” you’re just plain wrong. I know people who openly admitted they were using aimbots a while ago, who no longer use them though, and they were reported multiple times when they were using them. The common link between these two people? They’d both spent money on the game, and quite a bit of money, so it’s always made me wonder.

(Jostabeere) #138

@Dox If it’s the case and Nexon or SD are actually hypothetically taking longer to ban paying people than freeloaders, they will either deny or never admitt it.

(prismaticDinosaur) #139

Whatever SD/Nexon do or not do, they need to ramp up their effords. The amount of cheaters increased significantly in the last week or so, it feels like this is getting out of hand.
Might be subjective ofc, but i’ve seen a lot of them in the last couple days, more than in my whole playtime so far.

(doxjq) #140

[quote=“prismaticDinosaur;210972”]Whatever SD/Nexon do or not do, they need to ramp up their effords. The amount of cheaters increased significantly in the last week or so, it feels like this is getting out of hand.
Might be subjective ofc, but i’ve seen a lot of them in the last couple days, more than in my whole playtime so far.[/quote]

Quite right. We’re seeing an unusual amount of cheaters as well, mostly with 400ms pings so probably from Russia or something.

Although I’m amazed how many new players I’ve seen this week as well who aren’t hacking. Me and my team mate were playing earlier and couldn’t believe how many level 1’s we saw yesterday and today.