Iron Sight - What is it there for?

(Anti) #41

Iron Sights were added to the game for folk who are used to them, i.e. used to weapons where recoil is the primary thing you need to control, not spread. We felt having hip fire spread focused and iron sight recoil focused meant players would be able to play with the guns in a style that suits their past experience.

The issue now is that hip fire has so little spread that it’s too good compared to iron sight, although personally I still find iron sight way better at range (if it should be optimal at anything it’s that!)

We could make hip fire worse to fix this, but I don’t think that’d go down well :smiley:

We could try and improve IS but I don’t think there is actually much remove to move there.

We could remove IS but personally I’d worry about how many people that might put off the game.

I think it’s probably just a case of us continuing to make small tweaks and see how we can make IS more useful without moving hip-fire’s current behavior.

(tokamak) #42

IS isn’t just about range, it’s a further commitment towards a certain angle, it’s you putting weight into a certain direction at the cost of being exposed to everything else. That’s why having a slow switch isn’t the problem but the high recoil still is.

(warbie) #43

That can work both ways. Anyone who tries to play DB like CoD or BF is instantly going to get torn a new one - I suspect the confusion of having iron sights will be counter productive when it comes to easing in new players.

(tokamak) #44

Oh that’s just nonsense. No new player ever gets confused by ironsights. New players know how to use ironsights before they can walk.

(Rex) #45

Yup, this would be the right way to do it. Because at the moment they are pretty much useless.

(warbie) #46

No - I’m coming from the other direction. People who’re used to fps in which iron sights are the most effective way to fight in nearly all situations. The same fps in which firing from the hip is considered for noobs. This exact thing happened with Brink - cries of how crap the iron sights were and how hipfiring should be nerfed were common. Like it or not, vast numbers of fps players these days know no better and when they first start playing DB they will be trying to play it in the same way - and they will get slaughtered.

(tokamak) #47

I guess the idea is that crappy ironsights (and they ARE crappy) are a crutch to help a player towards better hipfire.

Either way the current direction disgusts me.

(Mustang) #48

Reduce (or remove) movement penalty, separate customisible sensitivity, increase visibility with less intrusive IS or give option to pick red-dot/scope on all weapons or r_drawgun 0 or zoom without putting gun to shoulder/cheek.

There is lots that could improve IS before considering removing it.

(warbie) #49

Yeah. A zoom without movement penalty makes more sense. Especially customisable sensitivity (would like this for sniper rifle too).

(Samurai.) #50

[QUOTE=Mustang;447624]Reduce (or remove) movement penalty, separate customisible sensitivity, increase visibility with less intrusive IS or give option to pick red-dot/scope on all weapons or r_drawgun 0 or zoom without putting gun to shoulder/cheek.

There is lots that could improve IS before considering removing it.[/QUOTE]

Just going to +1 this, some nice improvement suggestions there.

(Smooth) #51

In the current version, ironsights have no spread and somewhat reduced recoil but that’s not enough to counter the loss in movement speed. We’ll keep tweaking things like this until we find the balance we desire.

We’d like ironsights to be on a equal footing with hip-fire without becoming a requirement or the de facto choice the majority of the time.

At close range hip-fire will be better and very long range ironsights preferred, however at medium range both modes should be roughly equally viable. The effective range of each mode will vary from weapon to weapon but both modes should always have their place.

Edit 4 Mustang: Sensitivity scale settings and customizable sights are definitely on the list.

(Volcano) #52

[QUOTE=Mustang;447624]
1)Reduce (or remove) movement penalty,
2)separate customisible sensitivity,
3)increase visibility with less intrusive IS or give option to pick red-dot/scope on all weapons
4)r_drawgun 0
5)zoom without putting gun to shoulder/cheek.

There is lots that could improve IS before considering removing it.[/QUOTE]

  1. i think that would cause a lot of players to run around scoped in which shouldn’t be the case
  2. yes that needs to be introduced
  3. aren’t the scopes going to be buyable/unlockable so wont they be on all the rifles anyway? the visibility with the medic and solider 2 rifle really needs to be improved, so far the fops rifle is the best and the engy rifle scope is out by a good 1cm or so
  4. there’s supposed to be a minimal weapon scale command but this would be nice to
(Loffy) #53

Loved the following from W:ET, where I had really nice configs/binds:
Please, if possible, make is so that I can MouseWheelUp to get a FieldOfView-zoom in, a lower sens, as well as a smaller dot. Like an instant FOV-zoom, sens, and dot-size change (no ironsight involved). And then (after fragging that enemy in the distance) I should be able to just MouseWheelDown to instantly get back to my normal FOV-zoom level, sens and dot-size.

(.-COM-.PAIN) #54

Yes, get rid of it and improve “crouch” for less spread and NO recoil. How about getting rid of recoil all together and it would be perfect.

(attack) #55

im still for remove ironsight but can understand the decision to implement it.

(spookify) #56

If I wanted add on and iron sights I will go play COD. That game plays smooth and has good movement. It just has no skill because its based on the the first person to shot or spam…

(Rex) #57

What has this to do with lack of skill or spam? facepalm :rolleyes:

(en2ie) #58

I would rather IS be removed completely - but if they are to remain surely it would be unintuitive to have some weapons that can ADS and some that can’t?

You should consider some form of ingame tutorial (or maybe just a short video) that informs the player where its best to use the ironsights.

(warbie) #59

How would that go? ‘Hi guys, you’re used to iron sights that you can use all the time, but in this game they only work in this situation, and even then you’ll probably get killed by someone moving around quickly’. There was no confusion with TF2, or L4D, and if someone was to play CS for the first time they’d realise within a minute that what they’re used to didn’t apply and that it required a different way of playing.

[QUOTE=Smooth;447627]We’d like ironsights to be on a equal footing with hip-fire without becoming a requirement or the de facto choice the majority of the time.

At close range hip-fire will be better and very long range ironsights preferred, however at medium range both modes should be roughly equally viable. The effective range of each mode will vary from weapon to weapon but both modes should always have their place.[/QUOTE]

I honestly don’t see how that can be done without nerfing movement speed and/or hp. Have you ever tried using iron sights against a target that requires 3 or 4 headshots to kill while it’s quickly strafing left to right and firing at you?

(tokamak) #60

Was not an entirely pointless endeavour in ETQW.