Infantry Physics: Trickjumping and Ragdoll

(I3LiP) #1

A whole lot has been said about the vehicle physics of ET:QW and it sounds (and looks) like its going to be complete awesomeness.

However we’ve seen relatively little about the physics governing our bipedal virtual counterparts. Really I just want to open up a discussion concerning what you think will be possible and what you would like to see.

Firstly it’s been mentioned a number of times that people will be able to take Huskeys out and over special vehicle trickjumps. However a large part of ET movement was based around trickjumping: as in, fuel dump jump, oasis wall, strafe jumping bunny hop etc etc. I know for a fact that the DooM 3 Engine which ET:QW is built natively supports the same physics flaws that allow for trickjumping. However it would be interesting to know whether these have been disabled/overcome or infact catered for in ET:QW.

Obviously it would still be fun to trickjump with infantry for a lark, but then it does ruin general gameplay when you come up against a bunnyhopping wanker on speed.

Secondly the way in which players die is oft debated: Will we retain the fall over backwards animations for everything/ only when shot/ new better animations/ ragdoll physics or a hybrid system. I know again that the DooM 3 Engine supports ragdolls in a much more subtle way than the later BF games, however will this be changed/removed for ET:QW.

From the video’s we’ve seen so far it would appear that there are no ragdoll physics on player deaths (even for one soldier being blown up by a goliath). Regardless many sources have claimed that ragdoll IS included in the game, including this article from back at the beginning of 2006:

http://www.telefragged.com/index.php3?file=previews/etquakewars/index2

What form do you think infantry deaths should take. Do you think network speed is a deciding factor, or do you feel the immersion quality is more important? What would you settle for? And what would be completely innappropriate?

Sorry to bring this subject up again, I’m just wondering what the general consensus is in the community these days.

(Don’t hurt me too much)

(ayatollah) #2

If you think about it player must always fall on their back, this allows the defib to be used. The only way ragdoll could be implemented would be if the player was gibbed when killed and not exploded. If you catch my drift?! (Well done if you do, I’m not sure I do!)

(Loffy) #3

Good questions. Looking forward to the discussion. I know alot of forum people are trickjumpers. I want to toss in: What are the possible negative aspects of having rag doll physics?
//Loffy

(I3LiP) #4

What if the player dies on a small ledge above the medic? Does this mean he will slide off? Will he ragdoll off? Or will it be able to use the defibs from beneath the wounded character?

It would make sense to be able to drag/turn over wounded people either way.

Edit: @Loffy

The two downsides to ragdoll are really that:

a) it can look unrealistic at times, for instance someone going completely limp from being shot in the leg. Though the DooM 3 Ragdolls seem to be better at compensating for this.
b) It needs to send the data of what the ragdoll does to the server and back to other players increasing the network load (or something, I’m not a techhead)

Oh and of course the mentioned problems with reviving.

(ayatollah) #5

I think the death animations and revivals will be pretty similar to W:ET, I don’t see any other way for them to do it…except dragging and turning over, etc. but that would be too time-consuming during battle. I like to bounce over, click and bounce away!

As for trickjumping/bunnyhopping/etc. They will be in, I am sure, but trickjumps will be more trial and error and guessing. Rather than SD having laid out specific places for people to trickjump, there will just be the places that people find through chance themselves.

(rebb) #6

Personally i like Ragdoll Systems a lot, they allow for some “hilarious” Moments sometimes. Well made Death-Animations are nice of course, and have their own character to them, but they tend to “break” when someone dies near a ledge and ends up sticking out over it, or clipping into geometry.

Now BF2 has defibrillators too and they still go for the Ragdoll Effect. While it might be realistic that a defibrillator only works properly on the chest, i don’t think it would be the main reason to not go for Ragdolls.

One Reason against them might be that they could potentially cause a bit of a performance hit, when a lot of them have to be calculated at the same time.

(I3LiP) #7

In all honesty, if BF2142 can manage it with its shit networking code. It should be a doddle for everyone else, especially splash damage.

Of course though, its not the only consideration.

(kamikazee) #8

That’s because Doom 3 only uses ragdolls for dead bodies, alive creatures just play a pain animation.
It is for this reason that you can’t make enemies fly away in a realistic way when an explosion occurs.
Of course, this could have been changed by now, but maybe it isn’t.

As for TJ: it was an aproximation error in the code causing TJ effects. Since Doom 3 is largely rebuilt from scratch, the risk exists that it won’t be possible.
However, there is a fair chance that they recreated the flaw and/or tweaked it. I’m sure it will work differently, so let’s just wait to see how you can use it.

(SCDS_reyalP) #9

Err, “Trick Jumping” isn’t a specific feature or flaw. Q3 trickjumpers use various artifacts of the physics system to do their jumps. Pretty much any FPS physics model will have corner cases you can (ab)use to do interesting stuff, unless special effort is made to prevent it. IMO, most of those that do try to prevent it usually end up feeling like crap.

Heck, even perfect physics has trickjumping… see skateboarding, surfing, parkour…

(SniperSteve) #10

Trickjumping is fun. So is strafejumping.

(GlobalWar) #11

I like ragdoll it just looks more natural and i dont see the why i cant defib someone when he is lying facer down. maybe the new defibs used in Quake Wars are also able to revive someone this way :slight_smile:

(MadDogX) #12

When I played ETQW at the GC in Leipzig, there were only standard “fall on your back” death animations as far as I recall. Also the defibrilator didn’t have an animation at the time - you just crouched next to a fallen team mate and when you clicked he would jump up again.

I would personally like to see a kind of combination of ragdoll efect and animations: say, someone is shot and falls over close to a ledge, against a wall or on his face - once the character has “ragdolled” into a stable position he will try to roll himself on his back, so that the standard “injured” animation can be played (you know, where it looks like he’s trying to do sit-ups).

Then the reviving animation shouldn’t be like in BF2142 where you can just stand near a fallen comrade and defib any part of his body simply by stretching out your arm and shouting “clear”. It just feels so unrealistic.

The paddles should actually be pressed onto the special depressions on the soldier’s chest. That means the medic would have to be moved into a certain position, not allowed to move etc.

Obviously this is all very, very hard to do from a coding and animation point of view, so I won’t complain if it isn’t that sophisticated.

(ayatollah) #13

Not that difficult to program in, imo. But what you don’t want as a medic is to have to hit specific parts of bodies, or wait for a period while reviving. The medic in W:ET is perfect, you can bounce in, click and bounce out. The more time wasted the less frantic the action is.

(Dazzamac) #14

Indeed, many times the medic is in cover, body is in the open with 6 guns pointing at him. If I had to stop and revive him I’d be dead too so I wouldn’t bother. But as I can sprint straight past him into cover again before they get a shot off, I’m happy to do it. I know its more realistic the other way but it detracts from the gameplay. Besides if we wanted realism you’d have no revives and no respawn, everyone dies on the first run and the match is over.

(madness) #15

That would make every Medic in the game just ignore injured teammates and not even try to revive anyone…

(BondyBoy007) #16

I’m with dazza on this one, sod pretty animations - I want frantic revive action ala RTCW or ET

(Vengeance) #17

to be honest i think revive is perfectly fine how it is in RTCW and ET, and really dosnt need changing. i almost can foresee the million threads complaining if it was changed to something else :slight_smile:

(kamikazee) #18

Hey, at least we would have something to talk about! :smiley:

(madness) #19

Yeah…I’m gonna miss the syringe too :frowning:

(sddo) #20

i think the syringe is still there for the stroggies. =)