I don't care what people say - Nader is completely and totally overpowered.

(Pazgabear) #61

Very insightful comment, thank you

(Gi.Am) #62

Stuff[/left][/quote]

The respective enemy is dead but.

If you mindlessly run into a Bushwhacker turret you will die.
If you mindlessly disarm C4 and ignore the stickies around, you will die.
If you mindlessly stand in an artillery strike you will die.
If you mindlessly run over a proximity mine you will die.
If you mindlessly run into a Kira laser you will die.
If you mindlessly turn your back at a downed phoenix you will die.
If you mindlessly run towards or stay at a downed Fragger with a primed nade you will die.

If you mindlessly run towards or stay at a downed Nader you will die.

Simple as that.

As for the respawntimer, this is how it works.
You can’t respawn before the timer you got downed reaches zero (thats the point of reviving, bringing you sooner back into battle).
If you fire martyrdom in that time you stay gibbed till the timer reaches zero (like everyone else). You don’t have to hit respawn, when the timer reached zero. Allowing you to delay incase someone is helping you up, a medic is around and will revive you shortly, you are Phoenix or Nader and you think you can still make a play. But you are simply delaying your rightful respawn. Everybody can do that.
The game will eventually forcefully respawn you (not sure but my guess is when the next respawnwave is up so after 25sec).

(classyRequiem) #63

I really think Nader is needed to counter the gun turrent, healstation and Rhino minigun. If she gets nerfed it’s going to make those more overpowered.

(sinKrin) #64

I’d actually like Nader to get a slight buff to her HP by ~10pts. Other than that I’ve no issues with her.
The martyrdom thing can be annoying but I’ve only even been caught out by my own faults.

(Szakalot) #65

I can definitely confirm that long-jumping away from the martyrdom will leave you unscathed. The only reason I imagine you got hit was lag, which is rarely possible with explosives, but still happens (can happen with Fragger nades as well - you got way out of dodge; but ‘somehow’ nade still gets you)

(turquoiseFisherman) #66

I agree that Nader is broken but it’s mainly her Grenade Launcher that is the issue. She can get way too many grenades off in a row and recovers them far too quickly. Her Versatility is just way too high with the right load-out that she’s almost too boring to use.

(heavyRaven) #67

Damn and I thought people hated rhino, first time in this thread.

(Jojack) #68

Nader should go on free rotation so everyone that’s raging about her being OP can see that she’s not…kinda like people are finding out about Rhino right now.

(Ardez1) #69

She was on rotation before Kira was. Along with Proxy.

(Jojack) #70

That was before open beta though wasnt it?

(scrub_lord) #71

Every time I see a Nader player I just laugh. More often then not, they have terrible aim and resort to jumping around and spamming nades for a 1v1. While it is extremely annoying, it isn’t much of a problem.

I do feel like either the amount of grenades she can carry should be lower or the CD should be longer. Players aren’t really punished enough for wasting her ability.

(efficientDime) #72

My main gripe with Nader is that I have no way to avoid her grenades. Even if they land a few feet away, they still instakill squishies like Aura. She can spam a bunch of grenades over a wide area, and they explode almost immediately, meaning I have no time to react, let alone move away. She can just clear out entire teams all by herself, without ever showing herself.

You have to take cover to avoid being shot by every other hero…but Nader can easily explode anyone in cover with a double-nade, if there’s a wall nearby. It’s a case of, “Fucked if you don, fucked if you don’t”.

Her grenades need to either: A) Have a significantly longer time to explode after hitting the ground, or B) Have a much lower amount carried.

(Disquieted1) #73

[quote=“efficientDime;30833”]My main gripe with Nader is that I have no way to avoid her grenades. Even if they land a few feet away, they still instakill squishies like Aura. She can spam a bunch of grenades over a wide area, and they explode almost immediately, meaning I have no time to react, let alone move away. She can just clear out entire teams all by herself, without ever showing herself.

You have to take cover to avoid being shot by every other hero…but Nader can easily explode anyone in cover with a double-nade, if there’s a wall nearby. It’s a case of, “Fucked if you don, fucked if you don’t”.

Her grenades need to either: A) Have a significantly longer time to explode after hitting the ground, or B) Have a much lower amount carried. [/quote]

+1. Having six grenade rounds is a lot. It has about as much coverage as air strikes. Not only that, Naders have more control over their rounds than air strikes. For that, I think fewer rounds would be better. The timing is fine since there are indicators on the screen on the location of the nades.

I also have to agree with Martyrdom. It’s stupid to not have grenades… yet use one on death.

(Disquieted1) #74

[quote=“efficientDime;30833”]My main gripe with Nader is that I have no way to avoid her grenades. Even if they land a few feet away, they still instakill squishies like Aura. She can spam a bunch of grenades over a wide area, and they explode almost immediately, meaning I have no time to react, let alone move away. She can just clear out entire teams all by herself, without ever showing herself.

You have to take cover to avoid being shot by every other hero…but Nader can easily explode anyone in cover with a double-nade, if there’s a wall nearby. It’s a case of, “Fucked if you don, fucked if you don’t”.

Her grenades need to either: A) Have a significantly longer time to explode after hitting the ground, or B) Have a much lower amount carried. [/quote]

Nader’s grenades give about as much coverage as air strikes. Not only that, Nader has more control over the nades than air strikes. I feel as if Nader should have the “power for control” trade, in which she has less damage or ammo in exchange for control. I don’t think a longer delay is needed for explosion, however, since there are indicators on the screen. Besides, people have a basic knowledge of physics so they know where to run.

About Martyrdom, I need to agree. Not having nades, then using one for Martyrdom is stupid.

(Sinee) #75

I use Nader a lot, and she’s my primary merc besides Vas. I have a very hard time aiming the nades (if I hit someone directly it means I got lucky), so I mostly just use them to flush opposition out of areas. That often gives me splash damage so my team and I have weakened them and take them down easier with my SMG.

But while Nader is obviously my favorite, I do think she needs some balancing, because I can objectively see how unfair she can be. One Nader can sometimes be enough to carry a team. Two? Your a$$ is grass. Hella OP. Not only that, but matches turn into a huge mindless clusterf%ck because of grenade spam. Add Fraggers, artillery, and airstrikes, and it’s just a big ol’ f$@ckfest of explosions.

Cool down should be increased for every nade, or every two nades so it can’t be spammed. That way Nader users would have to use their nades more mindfully/carefully. As much as I love Nader, I love fair and balanced matches way more.

I wouldn’t change anything about Martyrdom, aside from maybe make a slight penalty if you use it. It can be tactical if you suicide bomb a nest of opposition— you can often get more than one kill. But maybe make it so that there’s a suicide penalty that makes it pointless XP wise to kill just one person (ie, the XP you gain from killing that one person is negated because of the XP lost from suicide). So it’d be smarter and more tactical to use martyrdom for suicide bombing nests to take out more than one, instead of just being salty to one person that downed you.

Although, granted, I do have a sadistic little chuckle every time I blow some innocent dude sky high that forgets about Nader’s special ability and wants to finish her off. This is why I say I wouldn’t technically change anything about it because… “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me” rings very true with this merc.

ETA: I do, however, agree with a moderator post on the previous page about martyrdom being unavailable if you’re out of grenades. That just makes sense.

(hiddenPalisade) #76

[quote=“GregHouseMD;25485”]
In the hands of a good player, just about any merc can carry a team to victory.

But, hey. Don’t let facts get in the way of opinions, right?[/quote]

So bushwacker…that just got nerfed…can he carry a team to victory…cause if he can, that enemy team is bloody aweful. the turret tells you where its at…takes awhile to lockon…shoots hundreds of rubber bullets…can get dismantled by 1 ittty bitty little shotgun shell. 2 knifes, 2 sniper shots, or an entire clip of smg. thats the turret…then bw all by his lonesome gets locked entirely to smgs. do the other engi’s get locked to smgs…why not? no explanation. just as there is zero explanation to nerf to kira and bushwacker…but nader, rhino,aura,vasili,airstrike merc…not even a sniff of blancing…i figured th’d have buffed arty…NOPE.

gg i rest my case…lets not “let facts get in the way”

(Merci1ess) #77

[quote=“hiddenSpring;30900”]I use Nader a lot, and she’s my primary merc besides Vas. I have a very hard time aiming the nades (if I hit someone directly it means I got lucky), so I mostly just use them to flush opposition out of areas. That often gives me splash damage so my team and I have weakened them and take them down easier with my SMG.

But while Nader is obviously my favorite, I do think she needs some balancing, because I can objectively see how unfair she can be. One Nader can sometimes be enough to carry a team. Two? Your a$$ is grass. Hella OP. Not only that, but matches turn into a huge mindless clusterf%ck because of grenade spam. Add Fraggers, artillery, and airstrikes, and it’s just a big ol’ f$@ckfest of explosions.[/quote]

Michael Bay would thumbs up your post. I agree with what you said, obviously. Me, being the number 1 victim of Naders spamming their grenades. Awful… just awful. One is bad enough. When you’re up against 2? 3 Naders? Oh my…

(Sinee) #78

[quote=“vastMall;30951”][quote=“hiddenSpring;30900”]I use Nader a lot, and she’s my primary merc besides Vas. I have a very hard time aiming the nades (if I hit someone directly it means I got lucky), so I mostly just use them to flush opposition out of areas. That often gives me splash damage so my team and I have weakened them and take them down easier with my SMG.

But while Nader is obviously my favorite, I do think she needs some balancing, because I can objectively see how unfair she can be. One Nader can sometimes be enough to carry a team. Two? Your a$$ is grass. Hella OP. Not only that, but matches turn into a huge mindless clusterf%ck because of grenade spam. Add Fraggers, artillery, and airstrikes, and it’s just a big ol’ f$@ckfest of explosions.[/quote]

Michael Bay would thumbs up your post. I agree with what you said, obviously. Me, being the number 1 victim of Naders spamming their grenades. Awful… just awful. One is bad enough. When you’re up against 2? 3 Naders? Oh my…
[/quote]

(Temporary) #79

That was before open beta, its mostly the new players complaining.

(Gi.Am) #80

geez this is still going on? Let’s see.
Naders nades are not even close to the airstrike and won’t instakill an Aura unless it is a direct hit. One nade deals 75 damage if you stand on top of it. That is the same damage a Airstrike marker does, the marker not the airstrike which comes on top of it and will kill everyone instantly in a larger area.
Her nades have a fusetime of 1.5 sec since she can’t control the fusetime (unlike fragger) it comes down to distance in close distances you get plenty of time to get away (over a second) on long distances the nades might explode before they reach the target. Inbetween is a sweetspot where they are indeed hard to avoid. However one nade doesn’t kill and their is a slight delay between two so why are you still standing there when you get the first nade warning?

As for Bushwhacker not carring a game dafuq? He is a if not the engineer he will literally carry you to victory by completing everything that counts in this game (objectives). Nader on the otherhand is an Assault she is a damage dealer. Killing people is her job, it is all she is good at, it is the only thing she brings to the team. And unlike Fragger, who is the direct 1 on 1 champ in the game, she trades in your face damage and survivability for more and constant AOE supression. But after her initial spam she will very quickly hit a cooldown ceiling only allowing her to shoot a single Nade every couple of seconds. A Nade that doesn’t kill (unless direct hitting a low HP class but they wont be gibbed) and which damage can be easily negated by any medic class.