I don't care what people say - Nader is completely and totally overpowered.

(HutchTouch) #1

This one Merc singlehandedly carried her team to victory with an endless barrage of huge aoe huge damage huge range grenades. Her killing potential is fucking absolutely absurd and her special ability makes no sense. She does everything that fragger does - but better. By far the most obnoxious Merc in the game.

(GregHouseMD) #2

Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

In the hands of a good player, just about any merc can carry a team to victory. Nader’s grenades have a pretty small AoE compared to other explosives, and their damage is only 90 on a direct hit. Range? Yeah, they’ve got good range.

As for doing everything Fragger does, but better? Well, let’s see. Fragger’s got more HP and has access to more devastating guns. Fragger’s grenade does considerably more damage, has slightly less range, and a slightly longer CD.

Martyrdom? Martyrdom is really easy to avoid, if you try.

But, hey. Don’t let facts get in the way of opinions, right?

(goodField) #3

That’s great. Its wrong. But you’re entitled to that opinion.

Lets size 'em up.

Fragger:

HP: 150
Speed: 385

Primary:
K-151, M4A1, BR-16

Secondary:
DE. 50, Smjüth & Whetsman

Q: Frag Grenade
Deals 150 damage over an area of 240 units, 3 second fuse (cookable), carries 2, Regenerates at a rate of 1 every 30 seconds.

Nader:

HP: 110
Speed: 450

Primary:
Crotzni, SMG-9, Hochfir SMG,

Secondary:
M9, Selbstadt .40

Q: Grenade Launcher
Deals 75 Damage, over an area of 192 units, 1.4 second fuse (uncookable, can explode if Direct Impacted), carries 5, Regeneratesa at a rate of 1 every 25 seconds.

E: Martyrdom
Deals 150 damage, over an area of 240 units, .9 second fuse, can only be used when incapacitated. Counts as a Melee kill.

So…

Fragger has, more health, better weapons, and a superior killing potential with his Q. He’s slower, and has no E.

Nader has, faster move speed, more charges on her Q, and a Finish-Denier. She has inferior weapons, lower health, and a contextual E ability, as well, requires over a minute and a half to pass before she has full damage potential after expending her reserve.

I use her to carry, because I can reliably peg people with the MGL and I can stay on target against even an Aura/Proxy with the SMG, and a load of people aren’t used to her exploding when they come to finish her off.

But I could do far better with Fragger - expect, I didn’t buy him for a reason. Fast characters are my playstyle in this kind of game. I’ve carried at least 10 Chapel game on Proxy with the Attackers, and done the same on Defenders with Kira.

The point is. Okay, learn to counter her – its really easy, you move away.

(HutchTouch) #4

It’s easy to say that when it’s down on paper but it just doesn’t pan out like that in the heat of a game. I have never, ever EVER seen a fragger do remotely as well as a nader in the 100 or so games I’ve played, I also see people using nader more than fragger, I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

(goodField) #5

It ain’t that way on the US Servers I’ve been playing on. The only time I see someone do better than the Enemy Fragger has been honestly just me on Nader or Proxy. I hardly even see Nader to be completely honest outside of myself. Its mostly just Skyhammer, Fragger, Sawbones, Vasoline.

(Gi.Am) #6

Got nothing to add, but damn goodField where did you get all does stats (especially the range units). Seriously why isn’t that stuff in the weapons spreadsheets already.

On a less serious note 150 damage over 240 units? now I know why I have an easier time getting martyrdom kills than normal ones.

(GregHouseMD) #7

And you’re playing comp, right?

(HutchTouch) #8

And you’re playing comp, right?[/quote]

Both comp and casual.

(GregHouseMD) #9

And you’ve seen Nader dominate in comp?

(goodField) #10

[quote=“Gi.Am;25525”]Got nothing to add, but damn goodField where did you get all does stats (especially the range units). Seriously why isn’t that stuff in the weapons spreadsheets already.

On a less serious note 150 damage over 240 units? now I know why I have an easier time getting martyrdom kills than normal ones. [/quote]

I have my ways~ Still need to double check the damage numbers on Martyr – haven’t fought a RHINO yet.

(Szakalot) #11

[quote=“goodField;25623”][quote=“Gi.Am;25525”]Got nothing to add, but damn goodField where did you get all does stats (especially the range units). Seriously why isn’t that stuff in the weapons spreadsheets already.

On a less serious note 150 damage over 240 units? now I know why I have an easier time getting martyrdom kills than normal ones. [/quote]

I have my ways~ Still need to double check the damage numbers on Martyr – haven’t fought a RHINO yet.[/quote]

you seem to be off.

Grenade launcher def. doesnt have a cooldown of 25sec/nade. Fragger’s nade is 4 sec cook, not 3.

Pretty sure Nader’s speed isnt 450 anymore

(goodField) #12

I’ll check in game tonight and update. Running off of memory – and I’ve not actually played Fragger to a degree in which I know for certain. Going off of time spent fighting him.

(watsyurdeal) #13

You know, most of the time when I get Martyrdom kills, it’s because people insist on trying to knife Nader.

And to that I say it’s your own damn fault, fall for it once, it’s ok, it happens, fall for it a second time, well you’ll get it down next time right?

After that…you’re fucking stupid, sorry, fucking learn from your mistakes first before crying about it. Shit if I gotta put up with that when it comes to Medics you can put up with it when it comes to an ability that only ONE merc has and you have NO excuse to not expect it from her.

(GregHouseMD) #14

I’ve seen some absurd reactions to Martyrdom, man. I really don’t understand why people insist on treating it the way they do, either. It’s like people would rather die to it so they can complain, than learn to avoid it, and I don’t understand why.

It’s literally as simple as: Did Nader just die near you? Run, as fast as you can, away from Nader. No, don’t walk. Run! Away! Away from her, not onto her! Oh, ffff, you blew up. Well, you’ll get it some day.

(HutchTouch) #15

I have, many times.

(HutchTouch) #16

So that entire post is just what you “remember”? Seriously? You posted it like it was statistical facts.

(unbleachedCoconut) #17

Nader is good only versus not experienced players. Good fragger is better at any situation. If you think that Nader is OP, then you really need to watch DirtyCups.

(Kalbuth) #18

Nader nades cannot take you by surprise, but for 1 situation : you are a lightie who got one in the face after turning a corner.
In all other cases, you have everything you need to just get away from the AoE. Unlike Fragger, against whom you die without reaction capability, whatever your Merc (save for Rhino).
And really, in many situation, when Naded, just rush her. Once inside her GL arming range, she’s toast.

She’s the perfect (with Fragger) counter to “nests” with Aura/Rhino/Bushwackers holding chokepoints.

(goodField) #19

So that entire post is just what you “remember”? Seriously? You posted it like it was statistical facts.
[/quote]

If I’m wrong point it out like Szal did. You -can- do your own math you know.

(Szakalot) #20

So that entire post is just what you “remember”? Seriously? You posted it like it was statistical facts.
[/quote]

If I’m wrong point it out like Szal did. You -can- do your own math you know.[/quote]

are you going to give them 'disagree’s as well? : P