How would FACEIT address competitive issues from the past?

#41

It wasn’t a pause. The game didn’t stop, the match still continued but in the background (in the chat) it said that “insert player name here has disconnected and has 5 minutes to reconnect back or will receive a temporary cooldown”, or something in those lines.

(Teflon Love) #42

Sometimes I wonder if it would be feasible to have a ranked option “I have a life”. When enabled, you end up in a different queue for matches without a temp ban for leavers. Most of the games would probably end as 3 vs 4 but the people in this queue would be fine with it I guess.

It won’t work with DB’s current populace but for games with 10K+ concurrent players this might actually have its audience.

(bgyoshi) #43

It’s funny because disconnects only matter since your rank is based on your wins and losses and not on your personal performance, and people seem hard-pressed to keep it that way.

#44

I don’t think that would work in a competitive environment. You’re matching players and creating games around a calculated “skill” or rank at the start of the match, and adjusting those ranks based on the outcome of the game. If people are able to just drop out when things aren’t going their way, the ranking system starts to fall apart.

In other games with a competitive system, a lot of regular players demanded harsher and harsher punishments for ragequitters and leavers, stating that the high number of games being “ruined” by leavers was discouraging them from playing entirely.

If you’re worried about committing to a system that punishes all leavers indiscriminately, then perhaps casual play is a safer option.

(Teflon Love) #45

The really competitive players never would use the “I have a life” queue, it’s just for the casuals that want to play pseudo competitive without any actual commitment for whatever reasons.

It’s not meant to “work”, it’s there to protect the really competitive players.

It also might be educational for the pseudo competitive players as the constant leaving and non commitment of other players gives them a taste of their own medicine.

(DarkangelUK) #46

You’re basically just asking for CMM to be added back in

(Teflon Love) #47

I’m asking for the pseudo competitive players not to ruin the experience for the competitive players. :wink:

I really don’t know why they play ranked in the first place but I can think of a few things CMM could not deliver compared to ranked:

  • CMM has no extra bling loadouts.
  • CMM has level 3 players. Once you made it to the upper silver levels in ranked, at least Skyhammers knew how to drop ammo and Auras knew how to charge a defib.
  • CMM has no friendly fire and consequently more explosive spam.
(DarkangelUK) #48

I just don’t see why you can’t play a ranked game and not disconnect but still have a life

#61

If I could just politely ask people not to de-rail the conversation and get back on topic, that would be very nice.

Just to remind you, we are discussing how FACEIT will address competitive issues as listed. Any threads of conversation related to this are fair game, but backseat moderating is not okay.

Thanks!

(bgyoshi) #62

I really liked CMM, it was super fun and fixed a lot of problems with competitive, mainly by being a semi-competitive format.

They should really bring it back

Additionally, the recent weapons patches have been really helpful in balancing the game around 5v5 and it will be cool to see what happens to the format when it is re-implemented again.

What are the thoughts on the current Fragger in the new competitive? What about BR/Stark?

(HadronZodiac) #63

When playerbase increases (maybe after 1.0) it will work out tbh

Fragger is… idk, imo the health drop wasnt too necessary, i can understand damage drop tho

BR16, although its more capable of landing shots, it still feels really wonky, the huge delay between shots its just annoying

Stark (imo) is in a bit better place

Back on Topic - So will FACEIT be like ranked quickjoin? Or will it be CMM mechanics again?

#64

I want to jump in here now. I bitch and moan about the removal of Ranked and it’d be stupid for me not to contribute to a topic about competitive improvements. I have always advocated for punishing leavers beyond ‘x’ amount of quits/disconnects/mommamademedothedishes and so on within a certain time frame, I never believed Ranked was as inherently broken or the matchmaking system was as disastrous as many implied, I’m all in favor of certain tournaments or third parties placing restrictions on Mercs or weapons, I vehemently disagree with the notion of adding shiny loadout skins or trinkets as form of incentive for participating in a Ranked environment as I believe it’d cater to an audience who otherwise wouldn’t be playing for the sake of competition, and I definitely do believe ranked progression could be weighted by individual performance (among many other things) rather than just overall wins and losses. That’s the gist of my stance on everything.

Someone care to tell me where we’re at in this thread? What’s the hot topic?

(bgyoshi) #65

If it uses the word ‘competitive’ then it’s fair game. The topic WAS about FACEIT but now it’s more like competitive/CMM

That’s just a comfort thing from the past though. I’m sure newer people don’t have the same kind of gripe about it. To them it’s just part of using the weapon. Now it’s worth it to track enemies like you’re using an AR, I bet you’ll find more success if you started doing that.

And yeah, shiny loadouts for competitive are kinda silly in that they make the mode more about earning shiny things and less about competing. But then again, how else would you reward players for their Ranked participation?

#66

The reward should be the rank earned itself. That alone should be the primary drive for players to participate in it. That said, it’s a double-edged sword and the world ain’t perfect. I’m not blind to that. There weren’t enough players to remove the casuals who just wanted fancy skins. Without that appeal, queue times would’ve been even longer. With reward based incentives existing, you get a mixed bag of players who may not even care about the competitive core of the mode to begin with. Match quality goes down and it increases the amount of quitting.

Sure, we would think that players who just want skins and shiny toys would at least try to win because the Ranked Point payout was higher for victories, but I’ve seen many people back out in a lobby (recognizing names) or quit after an opponent quickly took the first objective because they think they’ve already lost. I swear I’ve seen people say things along the lines of ‘forget this, not worth the time for 10 points’ before quitting all the time.

Thankfully they addressed the lobby quitting by hiding opponent names. I suppose the only win-win in that scenario again, if they insisted on giving handouts and shiny toys for participating, would have been to make ranked progression AND Ranked Point payout based on individual performance. That’d have kept anyone playing to win whether they were in it for the skins or for the competition itself.

Hindsight is 20/20. Hope all of that made sense. Typed from my phone.

(HadronZodiac) #67

Yeah I agree, but still it feels less like a burst rifle and more like a broken auto

(bgyoshi) #68

I wonder how they could incorporate those prizes into a mode like CMM, along the lines of what teflon suggested: A mode that words just like competitive, without stat tracking. You could earn the same Ranked skins and shinies but you aren’t playing in the Ranked queues and ruining the fun for everyone. What’s the incentive to play competitive at that point? Well that’s sort of the point.

People that just want the loot won’t have to go to competitive, and the people that really want to play competitive can still earn the loot from playing it. Now I imagine not too many people will go play the actual competitive mode at that point… but at least the people in the mode really want to be.

I wonder if there’s a way to have a competitive Execution too. I know SD isn’t going to balance around it but it could also just take on a meta of it’s own.

(Teflon Love) #69

The reward I’ve been looking for the most was fun games with pretty even teams where all players try ti fill the role the team needs most, give their best and at least get the basics rights (drop ammo, charge defib when appropriate, plant on sensible spots, solo repair, …). The few games I had were all players were in the lower or mid gold ranks were glorious. Which was about 3% of the games I played.

Anyway, I find Paladin’s approach to obtaining a special ranked skin quite nice: in order to get it you need to reach a rank comparable to DB’s upper silver / lower gold. You can’t buy it in the shop, you can’t just grind it by playing a myriad of ranked matches. You actually need to get somewhat good (but not excessively).

(bgyoshi) #70

That’s pretty good, although you know it’ll mean people whining at the lower levels that they can’t get the better items.

Secondly, it might just shift the problem of quitting early into the gold ranks. As far as I can tell, gold rank is where people started actually playing competitive DB, so you might just turn gold into the new bronze, as people have worked their way up to that tier, and just quit as fast as possible when a game is lost or what have you because they won’t earn enough rank points from losing the match.

I still think shifting the skins to making them earnable in something like CMM would work a little better. Taking the focus of casual play or play for rewards off Ranked will round out the mode a little more fully.

#71

I’m all for them adding various skins and rewards for a separate mode, but I don’t believe they should be the same as what’s earned in a true Ranked setting - if a true Ranked mode should even provide rewards aside from trinkets to represent the rank achieved in the first place. If you could get the exact same skin/reward/whatever from a different mode then it undermines the ‘real’ ones who worked for it. Plus the playerbase can’t survive being split into multiple modes for stuff like this, anyway. I still think the best way to go about this would be to make both Ranked Points (used for skins and rewards) and Ranked progression (leveling up) bound to individual performance. Or at least partially weighted by it. That’s the only way I can see people who just want skins influenced enough to keep trying to do well in a match, even if it seems like their team is going to lose. They’d have no reason to quit because it’s no longer a matter of playing a 20 minute game for a small 10 point payout. Those who are in it to rank up would obviously be giving their best, regardless.

(bgyoshi) #72

What if ranked points were instead awarded based on total active time in a match? How would you even track active time in a match without counting people moving around in spawn or just outside of spawn?