How the wrench acts/works

(Anti) #61

[QUOTE=Ashog;447961]Right, but could I ask why is that so?
[/QUOTE]

It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. If the player can plant a 30 second fused C4 randomly in the map the expectation will be that it will be effective i.e. killing passing enemy, blowing up walls or doors etc. It’s not going to do those things though, it wont deform terrain (that’s an expensive system to put together) and the chance it will hit a passing player is low given the player speed and long fuse time.

(Ashog) #62

[QUOTE=Anti;447964]It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. If the player can plant a 30 second fused C4 randomly in the map the expectation will be that it will be effective i.e. killing passing enemy, blowing up walls or doors etc. It’s not going to do those things though, it wont deform terrain (that’s an expensive system to put together) and the chance it will hit a passing player is low given the player speed and long fuse time.[/QUOTE]

But but … it was like that in all games before and noone complained about that?! I mean, the players are not dumbasses (well most of them), they will understand that - so this sounds like too much nubification to me :slight_smile: Or like you guys are scared of something at SD :wink: You should be though, but not due to a bit silly fears of people frustrated by game that they can’t kill people by a dynomight, but by larger, more influential things like having no sdk or custom content, restrained movement, imperfect weapon balance, better map layouts, more maps, etc etc… If you know what I mean, completely sincerely. Dynos placeable anywhere are not goona frustrate, they will cheer people up!

(iwound) #63

[QUOTE=Anti;447951]OK, some of that is the sort thing that we’re worried about. We balance the map and re-spawn times to give one or two disarm attempts, depending on the objective, but then some stacked or jump placed C4 charge adds 10 secs to the disarm process and gives maybe no chance to disarm.
.[/QUOTE]

level designer fixes it. non? restrict obj plants to within defined area. otherwise its a miss.

[QUOTE=Anti;447964]It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. If the player can plant a 30 second fused C4 randomly in the map the expectation will be that it will be effective i.e. killing passing enemy, blowing up walls or doors etc. It’s not going to do those things though, it wont deform terrain (that’s an expensive system to put together) and the chance it will hit a passing player is low given the player speed and long fuse time.[/QUOTE]

if you play the game your going to have a rudimentary understanding of how it works or you learn how it works by trying something out.

[ul]
[li]killing passing enemy - yes we expect it to kill, pretty pointless otherwise. but c4 does kill. [/li][li]blowing up walls or doors etc. - 1st player tries it, then aks why doesnt it do this. 2nd player says it only blows objectives.1st player says thanks and goes on his way a little wiser. afaik it would activate burning cars etc that your introducing. more of this type could be added to embellish the experience. [/li][li]it wont deform terrain - i would hope not, never had it, dont expect it, no-ones asked for. [/li][/ul]

in the end Anti were only telling you what we like. its not a game changer. but its things like this that are fun. please have a fun pass.:slight_smile:

here have a banana. :stroggbanana:

(Nail) #64

nope, it would go like this
“blowing up walls or doors etc. - 1st player tries it, then aks why doesnt it do this. 2nd player says it only blows objectives.1st player says pos game, quits and tells all his buddies to pass, why let you plant c4 and then not have it do squat”

(Humate) #65

Nope it would go like this

1st player says: “how come this game gives me another life, when you already killed me?”
2nd player says: “game mechanics dont actually need to be based on reality”
1st player says: “oh that explains why the game allows coverts to go invisible?”
2nd player says: “yes, and it also explains why you dont die after 2 bullets in the chest”
1st player says: “you know, im really glad we had this chat, all of this would have been really confusing”
2nd player says: “youre welcome champ, anyday!”
1st player says: “ok see you later… oh before I forget, c4 should have its own slot dont you think?”
2nd player says: coughs

(iwound) #66

[QUOTE=Nail;447972]nope, it would go like this
“blowing up walls or doors etc. - 1st player tries it, then aks why doesnt it do this. 2nd player says it only blows objectives.1st player says pos game, quits and tells all his buddies to pass, why let you plant c4 and then not have it do squat”[/QUOTE]

thats fictional. mine was based on a true story. :tongue:
will he also say why doesnt my gun blow up that building and then rage quit.
why doesnt the molotov burn the house down.
why are rats immune from bullets.
why are train drivers still working in a radio-active zone.
why has that fire been burning in that house for 4 months but its still standing.
why doesnt that bell ring.

or … why cant i plant this c4 anywhere?

(warbie) #67

[QUOTE=iwound;447977]thats fictional. mine was based on a true story. :tongue:
will he also say why doesnt my gun blow up that building and then rage quit.
why doesnt the molotov burn the house down.
why are rats immune from bullets.
why are train drivers still working in a radio-active zone.
why has that fire been burning in that house for 4 months but its still standing.
why doesnt that bell ring.

or … why cant i plant this c4 anywhere?[/QUOTE]

:slight_smile:

I don’t buy the consistency argument either, especially when the whole process of when and how you plant seems at such odds with everything else we can do in the game - which is the kind of consistency gamers actually notice. We’re used to stuff that doesn’t blow up with rocket launchers. Planting dynamite in odd places in RTCW and ET was such a rare event in any case.

(Dormamu) #68

If you are worried about misleading, you could change the C4 to a 10 grenade cluster or a grenade bandolier :smiley: no more whine about visual damage :smiley:
I would give it a 4m blast radius, plant in the vicinity of the obj and not in specific places. If the obj is touched by or near the blast then is destroyed, if not the player will need to get closer :smiley:
The fun part about the dynamite planted anywhere on a map was that you where never sure when it will blow, some kind of psychological warfare :smiley:

(sunshinefats) #69

[QUOTE=Anti;447951]OK, some of that is the sort thing that we’re worried about. We balance the map and re-spawn times to give one or two disarm attempts, depending on the objective, but then some stacked or jump placed C4 charge adds 10 secs to the disarm process and gives maybe no chance to disarm.

Sure this is great for the planting team, they knew something the defenders didn’t, they found a hidden jump that was unintended in the maps design, but when an entire match can be lost to something like this it sucks royally for the defenders, just as Breo said.

If you’re simply talking about having more room to plant at locations so you can be smart about where you leave it and where you cover it from then, yes, we’ll be flexible and try to include that, although I wouldn’t call it a trick.

If folks have more examples though then by all means share them.[/QUOTE]

Ok, let’s say that you want to plant on that truck(sorry can’t recall the map name off the top of my head, it’s the one with the unfinished part and the boats grounded boats near where you spawn) objective. A trickplant example would be I jump up on the truck and look up at the dish thingy part and plant there. I’m not doing anything out of the ordinary there, just making it require a little extra effort to get to it and disarm it(just like it took me slightly more effort to put it there). So less a trick plant and more an inconvenient plant. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable compromise, do you?

(AntOO14) #70

[QUOTE=Anti;447964]It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. If the player can plant a 30 second fused C4 randomly in the map the expectation will be that it will be effective i.e. killing passing enemy, blowing up walls or doors etc. It’s not going to do those things though, it wont deform terrain (that’s an expensive system to put together) and the chance it will hit a passing player is low given the player speed and long fuse time.[/QUOTE]

Hmm but these are the small details which makes a game fun/enjoyable, the objective linear do this - do that i’ve seen enough im sorry.
Making a game much played well known and good is not taking a player by the hand and show him what to do.
They must become known with a game and step by step become better in it (lurning curve) this is an important factor.
But hey i can always press F and see :wink:

(BomBaKlaK) #71

Arf … still needed … I want my C4 anywhere like in ETQW or wolf ET dyno !!!

A “F” Key …

(Verticae) #72

[QUOTE=Anti;447964]It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. [/QUOTE]

The Assault Rifle only exists in the game to kill opposing players as well, but that doesn’t mean I walk around with my knife out and wait to press F when I see an opponent, then expect my weapon to switch to the AR and shoot the opponent for me. It’s about having the right tool ready for the right task, whether that task is taking out 4 opponents or planting a charge at the objective.

(Jamieson) #73

A lot has been said so I’ll just say this as simply as possible. What made ET and ETQW great were how varied they were, how many options and choices there were, how many different ways games could play out. It was never boring because every game felt different and exciting and that was also because the learning curve was quite high too, you could invest hours into the game and only be good at one class or a type of vehicle, only to discover you had so much more to learn, and even when you thought you had learned everything someone would do something differently and it was back to square one to see how you could adapt and improve. There was depth to those games and I hope DB replicates that, because while helping new players is a commendable thing, you can hold peoples hands too much and dumb the game down to such an extent that it gets old and boring fast.

(sunshinefats) #74

There have been some very good points raised here already, so I would just like to add this…
I see a lot of talk from devs about good game design, and I respect that line of thought, but consider this:
A poorly designed game that is fun to play will always have a strong following. A well designed game that isn’t fun won’t.

(Hundopercent) #75

I think a better direction is to just put a large ring (on the ground) around the objective where you can plant and let the engi/sold choose where to plant it. He can only toss the dyno in that circle or else he has a red X on his screen. He can also move while planting.

(Kl3ppy) #76

[QUOTE=Anti;447964]It’s misleading to the player.

The item only exists in the game to do objectives, it’s not the character’s ability, he one of those. If the player can plant a 30 second fused C4 randomly in the map the expectation will be that it will be effective i.e. killing passing enemy, blowing up walls or doors etc. It’s not going to do those things though, it wont deform terrain (that’s an expensive system to put together) and the chance it will hit a passing player is low given the player speed and long fuse time.[/QUOTE]

So its also not possible to plant a c4 on the ev to disable it? Or to place a c4 in the path of the ev to damage/disable it? This requieres some skill in timing, if you do it wrong, then nothing happens.
Regarding the destroyable world, SD games arent known for this. Battlefield heavily advertise this so its no downside when the world in DB isnt destroyable.

(RasteRayzeR) #77

Yet it could be a bit more interactive, I know they are working on destroyable elements, but I want everything to puke sparks and explode hard when I fire that big fat machine gun of the soldier. With visual effects of blasts that roxx my ass to hard, I start to puke of joy myself :smiley:

(Bangtastic) #78

let me correct ashogs post:
90 per cent of players are always dumbasses! (tv proves it) if there wouldnt be some restrictions, rules to play by, some would even go full retarded… you know what i mean by full retard…

Every second pub player will go for c4 wait in a corner the whole match and tries to get a multi kill within half an hour, and you insane ppl support that?

tbh planting randomly a 30 second C4, its pretty impossible to time that. no matter how useless it would be, certain players will do it 1000s of hours.
When you already have no respect for the game and the developers as RTCW ET fans, why should have the rest then?

lets introduce some jetpacks, fly to the skybox and plant some c4 there, it must work :p^^

I think there is a reason why its still in counterstrike^^ everybody will see the least issue there.

Cmon lets be serious and reasonable. This is even a worse Idea than all of mine combined.

EDIT: how many times this was brought up? you act like C4 is the only explosive in the game. Some ppl alreadyv complain about sticky bombs…

it breaks my heart when a developer has put thoughts and his reasons in each game element, and you dont even pay attention.

To clarifiy, random C4 plant involves any learn curve effects at all. You plant or dont plant. You might throw it or not. No player input is processed during plant to speed it up or any opportunity is given to be better than others. Regardless how much you plant, variables will always stay the same, input is not changing.
Everything is completely predefined and not depending on a player.

Still you can only blow up the main objective. And your reasons for C4 everywhere does only work with vehicles as the EV. There is not only C4…

(tokamak) #79

You’re basically saying that it would be too much fun as a weapon that it would distract people from playing the game.

(Humate) #80

C4 “Mines”:
C4 has a light, the faster it blinks the closer it is to exploding…
Claiming that people are too stupid to figure that out, is an overstatement and a half.

C4 Trickplanting:
If you really want to avoid this, use the strogg generator objective design from etqw.
Or you could opt for the Wolf09 approach, and only have 1 designated planting spot cough