How the wrench acts/works

(meat) #41

I bound my primary tool for each class to a button on my mouse, engine gets pliers, medic gets defibs, FOPS gets airstrike marker, covey heartbeat sensor, and soldier gets a flash bang. I show up to disarm c4 I press the button and use mouse 1. Like this a lot more than using the F key. I miss F all the time and end up throwing a grenade when I want to use my pliers.

(Nail) #42

don’t like f key stuff, but agree on C4 only available at predetermined plant areas. It worked in ET because there was no destructible environment, if you could plant anywhere people would bitch “Why can’t I blow up that car/wall/door/window/pipe/etc.” Players would expect damage and burn marks.

(rookie1) #43

F key is my middle wheel mouse button …no problem with it

(Verticae) #44

I have a few issues with the F key, and the first one is definitely a sense of ‘being babied’. I don’t need the game to select a tool and use it for me, I can do it just fine myself. Compare this to a fighting game - a simple combo should be just that, 2 or 3 buttons. Having it on one button would be silly.

I also dislike that it takes away that little bit of needed skill on the timing - to get at the objective right when your tool is ready to use. Right now, there’s that half a second delay before you actually start doing anything because the game has to figure out what to switch to and start the animation. That half a second is plenty of time to catch a sniper bullet with your teeth.

Finally, I miss the added aspect it gives to public gameplay. When you’re not on voicecomms, it’s a little trickier to plan things out - though still somewhat possible. However, if you’re near a plant objective and see a soldier with his C4 pack selected about to go in, you know exactly what’s going to happen and who you need to cover. Subtle cues like that can really help public teamwork.

(Dormamu) #45

I’m not too found about F key, for me is about control, with F you take away the control i have over my actions and replace it with some predefined action/animation.
Also, why do i need to plant the C4 only on the ground? Is their no “glue” in the future to allow a charge to be placed on a wall? :smiley:

(sunshinefats) #46

[QUOTE=Anti;447785]“I want to be able to use abilities where I want”
We don’t currently want you to be able to place C4 anywhere beyond the objective, so this is intentional, not a bug from the F key system.
[/QUOTE]
Please tell me this isn’t the long term plan…
Now you see…this is one of those decisions I just find…questionable. This is a great example of taking a fun feature that was pretty much enjoyed by everyone and taking it away…why? I seriously don’t get decisions like this. Things like this only limit the gameplay potential, which despite what you guys seem to think, is NEVER going to keep players(recent, veteran or otherwise) interested in your game long term. Just to be clear I’m talking about decisions like this one in broad generalization with that last statement, not specifically the c4(that’s just a convenient example since we’re on the subject somewhat). I get that you want to limit some factors during the testing phase, so here’s hoping this decision is just a temporary one.

But on the subject of the c4 and the F key, why can’t we compromise? Why not let us trick plant within the limited objective area. You still can’t plant anywhere, and you still press the F key, but now you could plant in various(e.g. more tricky) spots around the objective’s immediate area by looking with the mouse(assuming said position is within reach of course), thus making it(hopefully) a little harder to find and diffuse the c4. If it takes a couple extra seconds to find and diffuse it, that’s a game changing amount of time in terms of getting or not getting that objective and winning (or losing) the game. Plus it makes the player feel great when they plant in a spot that takes longer to locate and diffuse(especially if it doesn’t get diffused there) and that little feeling of accomplishment goes a long way towards being satisfied with the game as a whole(cause it’s all those little feelings of accomplishment that add up to awesome game experience). At any rate, just trying to offer a helpful/constructive solution idea along with my criticism. like a compliment sandwich…but without enough bread lol :tongue:

(Violator) #47

I’m also not sure about the decision to only allow C4 on the obj, unless its just for this round of testing. It would be nice to at least allow it to be planted on the EV by def - hard to pull off but would totally disable it.

(chippy) #48

Give the soldier the option to equip the C4, hold/release and keep the positions and distances on where it can be planted. I think that would be a fair starting point / middle ground.

(Kl3ppy) #49

Will there be trickplants? Or does this also not fit in the design?

(AntOO14) #50

I don’t think it fits in the engine itself, call idtech3 oldfashion but saying:
it’s bad interface design and a legacy from the old days of FPS games what Anti did i don’t agree.
My guess would be that it isn’t even possible the way it was in idtech3 but correct me if im wrong.

(Kl3ppy) #51

Oh yeah, that could be a reason. Is it possible to have trick jumps/trick plants in the ut engine?

(Humate) #52

From an immersion perspective, its preferable for the arming to work on mouse1.
From a depth perspective, its preferable that C4 sits on its own weapon bank.
There are a few mechanics that can be tied to the latter, which makes the game feel less generic and bland.

(Hundopercent) #53

This may sound lame but it’s true.

Most games we’ve played, which are mostly yours or RTCW, all use the Hold F key to complete objective. When we release the F key we expect a gun to come out not be locked in position and have 0 control of our character.

With the Tap F approach that has been implemented you indirectly doubled the players response time to an engagement. Instead of just lifting your finger and fighting, you have to push down your finger, release, and fight. Though the time is small it’s still more than before.

In addition to all of this, you also removed the creativity a player could bring to a plant site or just in general. No more free planting, no more freedom. It’s like we’re cattle being herded along a tight restrictive path of creative-less poorly designed game mechanics.

Hopefully, my lover, Anti, steps it up to the plate and lays it the **** down in that meeting.

(Hundopercent) #54

Actually, the I think the real issue here is I’m not in on these meetings. Anti, when you have a moment please PM me the conference bridge information. I will lay these people out for you and we can get a superior product in production asap. This is what I do Anti, I lay people out, all day. I’m exceptional at it.

Thanks lover,

<3 strychypie

(Anti) #55

Depends what your definition of trick plants is

(Breo) #56

No trickplants like ETQW pls you can easily screw the defend team with a newbie engineer :eek:

(Kl3ppy) #57

Well, I wasnt good at trickplants in ETQW, but I thought of planting in hights, or crouch jump on the objective and plant on top of the objective (The Ark, last objective). Maybe some other know more trickplant than I do.

(Anti) #58

OK, some of that is the sort thing that we’re worried about. We balance the map and re-spawn times to give one or two disarm attempts, depending on the objective, but then some stacked or jump placed C4 charge adds 10 secs to the disarm process and gives maybe no chance to disarm.

Sure this is great for the planting team, they knew something the defenders didn’t, they found a hidden jump that was unintended in the maps design, but when an entire match can be lost to something like this it sucks royally for the defenders, just as Breo said.

If you’re simply talking about having more room to plant at locations so you can be smart about where you leave it and where you cover it from then, yes, we’ll be flexible and try to include that, although I wouldn’t call it a trick.

If folks have more examples though then by all means share them.

(Rex) #59

[QUOTE=Anti;447951]OK, some of that is the sort thing that we’re worried about. We balance the map and re-spawn times to give one or two disarm attempts, depending on the objective, but then some stacked or jump placed C4 charge adds 10 secs to the disarm process and gives maybe no chance to disarm.

Sure this is great for the planting team, they knew something the defenders didn’t, they found a hidden jump that was unintended in the maps design, but when an entire match can be lost to something like this it sucks royally for the defenders, just as Breo said.

If you’re simply talking about having more room to plant at locations so you can be smart about where you leave it and where you cover it from then, yes, we’ll be flexible and try to include that, although I wouldn’t call it a trick.

If folks have more examples though then by all means share them.[/QUOTE]

Well it’s not only that the defenders have a hard time. No one mentioned yet that such trickplants require a lot of teamwork or trickjumping skills, which is also a high risk for the attackers to perform this. Because it will cost them a lot of time, but later it might pay off. Still it’s a risk which has to be considered before or during the game.

(Ashog) #60

Right, but could I ask why is that so?

I don’t have any issues with Use/F button usage. I don’t feel it’s limiting me much tbh, if at all. However I mostly use the separately bound tools on an x button to preselect them and then press mouse1, like in all previous SD games.

The only thing is when one has it on a thumb button, it’s a bit clumsy and hard to move, because the thumb button is not completely suitable for sustained press while moving the mouse. it’s more for tapping rather than pressing, because of the simultaneous need for moving the whole mouse at times.

I actually think that F button is needed. It is needed for the objective pickups (I strongly feel that non-instantaneous pickup of carriables really helped to balance them out), for carriable transmitting (same thing here too), for turret reclaim and what not. I also hope it will be used for disguising if it ever gets a luck of getting into this game.

Better keep it but fix the issues that it has.