I was really looking forward to HL2…that fool backed it up a long time. What is he going to do with it now? He only got a third of the source so its pretty much useless.
-Abraxas
HL2 Source code Leak
Abraxas
(Abraxas)
#102
I actually found someone post the source. I reported him and hopefully it will help. I dont think he was the one who stole it though.
-Abraxas
Diabolikul
(Diabolikul)
#103
Um, hello? Vivendi Universal is a French Company. Vivendi Universal owns Half Life 2. Vivendi Universal made the official “decision” to delay. Vivendi Universal, being located in France, will give their first sound byte to a French Paper. This is not at all the suspicious part.
Like I just posted a minute ago: the suspicious thing is that their product wasn’t going to be ready anyway, and now they’re coming out and saying “oh damn, we got hacked… guess we’ll have to delay half life’s release.”[/quote]
Umm… rgoer, I’ve followed everything you’ve said till here and agreed with it. But, in this you are wrong.
Hello… Vivendi does not OWN Valve OR HalfLife 2… Duh… Vivendi is a software publisher. All they are is a means for Valve to get it’s product to the markeplace, and nothing more. They don’t own Valve, write it’s code or have ANY ownership interest in Valve or Half Life 2 other than the exclusive right to publish that game. VU “signed” Valve in much the way you would sign a music artist. You sign them for the rights to publish their music, but you do NOT own them. Same thing here. VU has the exclusive right to publish Valve’s software, for which a hefty “production advance” is usually given up front.
Inasmuch, VU would really have ZERO say in when the game came out. Valve can deliver it tomorrow and VU would have to put it out. Save for a contractual obligation for Valve to supply a finished product by say… December of 2004, Valve can deliver anytime prior to that and VU can’t do a damned thing about it. They may WANT the game for the holidays but if the original contract gave Valve more time, then Valve can take all the time they like. Likewise, if a finished product were delivered in July, VU would have to release it unless they had a good reason NOT to. Valve isn’t going to submit in June and wait until December before their royalties come in. Believe that. The game finishes and it goes gold ASAP… that’s usually in the contract.
Music works the same, so does literature. You have a deadline and you can deliver anytime prior to that date. I will say that, within reason, the publisher can deny your submission. IE: it ain’t what you promised. SO you can’t take the initial advance and give them pong2003 in return and hope they’ll be happy. VU paid for certain promises and they expect Valve to deliver reasonably on them. The only time VU could DELAY the release date is if the submitted game did not live up to the contractual obligation. In this case, game developers are usually very specific about what content is provided, a general idea of the story line and what the physics will be like. And VU must have a valid reason to officially delay the release in order to do so, otherwise they must release upon submission by Valve. This is called “going gold”… that’s when the pressings begin.
If this has been covered already, my apologies, I am only just now reading the thread.
But to clarify, VU doesn’t own Valve and really can’t say whether the game is delayed or not, NOR is that decision theirs to make. Whether or not someone at Valve told VU that there would be a delay and VU is merely relaying that information remains to be seen as there has been no official word by Valve on a delay to April. It’s all merely speculation at this point. However, last time VU said something like this, it turned out to be correct… sooo… there ya go.
rgoer
(rgoer)
#104
I wasn’t trying to imply that Valve itself was a subsidiary of VU, but are you sure you’ve got that straight about VU not getting the final say as to when the game is released? I was under the impression that that was what being the game’s publisher was all about–that the publisher, being the party that actually sells the game, sets the dates. I mean, not that it would do them any good to set the date some time before the developer’s product is ready, but I thought the date-setting power rested in the hands of the publisher nonetheless. I also agree that you wouldn’t normally see a publisher delaying the release of a ready-for-sale product–hence my suspicion as to the “unreadyness” of HL2.
I see what you’re saying, though, but I think there is a bit more politics at play here. If Valve comes out and makes a press release saying “we’ve got to delay,” it shows the world that their product wasn’t ready to begin with. If VU makes the announcement, though, it appears to be your normal, everyday beaurocratic BS in motion.
Diabolikul
(Diabolikul)
#105
Bah… stupid forums erased my message. BLECH…
VU may have a SLIGHT say in when the product is officially released, but it would be only by a few weeks variance. In these types of contracts a period for release is usually specified. Certainly Valve would not agree to having a release delayed for months after a completed product was delivered. And probably VU wouldn’t go for that either, as a matter of business they need to recover (we call it “recoup” in the music biz) that initial advance as quickly as possible. So they’d likely release right away too. Nevermind the whole argument that a finished product is already old as soon as it’s finished and sitting in a warehouse waiting for some arbitrary release date just makes the product older… every day… There are a ton of business theories in work here, return on investment and capital cost recovery (getting back that initial development advance) being the largest two.
I agree, something else is amiss, something political perhaps. It would be in Valve and VU’s best interest to release immediately following a completed product. Having established the fiscal urgency and the fact that Valve controls the release date, the only plausible solution is that Valve backed it up… why? we may never know. But for sure this was Valve’s decision… On the flip side, if the product was finished, VU would probably insist that it go to market. So, you can glean from all this that the product is not finished.
Something else to think about is that HL2 itself MAY be finished. I know that Steam is having some problems and what with the release of source code which may include the Steam code, the real issue here may well be that Steam isn’t ready to go live on such a large scale as releasing HL2 would require. I find that to be a much more likely scenario that “Valve is lying to the gamers - HL2 is nowhere near completion”. It’s probably finished, but now they have a problem with Steam. Remember, Steam is designed to update the game constantly - daily if necessary - but requires sensitive data to be sitting on a server somewhere (credit cards, addresses, etc.). If Steam is compromised by this hack, then HL2 is certainly not coming out until those concerns are addressed.
Conspiracy theories abound, but in my experience the problems are usually so simple that what we are speculating on is way off the mark.
By the way, I’m about half way through the article “In The Beginning…” that you posted. A good read so far, thanks for sharing!
Abraxas
(Abraxas)
#106
The way you guys are talking, sounds like ur trying to say this is an avertisement scheme for valve. They probably did get a lot of publicity for this.
-Abraxas
rgoer
(rgoer)
#107
Since it isn’t a clear instance of premeditated marketing, “ad-hoc publicity stunt” might be more applicable than “advertising”–but yeah, it can’t be denied they are milking this shit for all it’s worth.
_O_SMYLER
([=O=]SMYLER)
#108
Believe me Half Life 2 doesn’t need any publicity and the content of what was leaked “I am led to believe” ( 
) does not do any justice to what will most likely be released in the final product.
“I am led to believe” that there is no enemy AI available in the code as such, merely an enemy will point in your direction when approached. I am also “led to believe” that when attacked an enemy will go into a predetermined “search” mode and run around as if you weren’t there.
In short “I am led to believe” that what has been leaked is a load of engine (which works quite well) with a heap of unfinished maps that are as yet unlinked to form a whole and next to no enemy AI is to be seen.
Well, so some guy down the pub told me and he would know, 'cos his uncle’s cousin’s best friends girlfriend or something knew a guy who had it but took it off his hard drive as it was taking up about 1.3GB.
chavo_one
(chavo_one)
#109
This is what I have heard as well, however I draw a different conclusion than you. I think that Valve is in a world of trouble right now. I believe the leak was the latest code that they had a month ago, and that’s why the game won’t be out any sooner than April.
I think that the AI in the demo at e3 was scripted, even though they hyped up the AI as NOT being scripted. I’ve heard multiple reports that the door in the demo that gets kicked in will get kicked in regardless of whether there is a soldier there or not.
rgoer
(rgoer)
#110
I have heard this same thing–that a lot of the supposedly unscripted events (be they AI, environmental, or even physics-engine related) from the e3 demos were, in fact, scripted. While that’s kind of disappointing (from a “gee, I really hope they weren’t lying about that, because that would suck” standpoint), I can’t say that anything about this whole shakedown has made me any less hyped about playing Half Life 2. I wasn’t really expecting it to come out before Doom III anyway, so I’m not really all that disappointed by this “oh shucks, it’s April now” shit.
_O_SMYLER
([=O=]SMYLER)
#111
I “may or may not” check on that today and see what it “leads me to believe”. If thats the case as well maybe the shots through the window, wonder what happens if someone was to shoot that soldier first.
I am “led to believe” for a FACT that the zombies do NOT move towards you whenever you are doing the rotating blade thing though. They “may or may not” do a small “search” when smacked or shot and then stop.
I’d hate to be a solicitor at law.
_O_SMYLER
([=O=]SMYLER)
#112
Someone told me just now that whenever all the soldiers are taken down there are no shots through the window. Can’t remember the guys name though.
amazinglarry
(amazinglarry)
#113
LoL Smyler you’re a riot! :blah:
But back to Diabolikul there for a second…
I know most music publisher’s actually push back the release date for many artists and the artist can’t say shit.
Happened to many bands that I enjoy listening to… and if the music industry works anyway like the game industry, then VU can definetly push back a release date. 
Diabolikul
(Diabolikul)
#115
It’s actually a bit more complicated in music. Publishers are not record companies or distributors, necessarily. They could be, but not necessarily. In music, you have far more parties involved than in games. The artist, producer, publisher, record company and distributor are usually separate entities. Often the record company is owned by the distributor, but not always. So, in your case it wouldn’t be a publisher, it’d be the record company. Publishers keep track of copyrights, record companies are responsible for content and distributors get your product to market. Of the 3, only 1 could possibly delay a release, and that is the record company (the distibutor MIGHT delay, but not by choice, maybe because there was a shortage of blank CDs to burn, but they can’t just delay for no reason). But, you have to ask why. Most album releases are delayed because of content. Not enough “hits”, the album doesn’t “flow”, some of the tracks just suck (yes, many track just plain suck!). A record company can send you back to the studio for a lot of reasons. But, I’ve never heard a record company with a finished, perfect album delay a release for 6 months. Maybe a few weeks or a month to coincide with a special event, or a movie premier where your song is featured or something like that, but never “just because”.
With games, it’s much simpler. You have a developer and you have a publisher/distributor. The developer is responsible for content, the publisher/distributor administers the copyrights AND gets the product to market. Dual role… but game sales are far, far less than record sales, so you can consolidate some of that (remember, in music the artist gets paid everytime a song gets played on the radio, or a club or anywhere else, so there’s a lot of work involved in tracking royalties and copyrights. In games it just gets sold once and the developer gets paid on the sale one single time… not 15 million times). In the case of games, it’s far less subjective than music. Music sounds different to everyone, and if a record exec doesn’t like what he hears, he can send you back to the studio until he DOES here what he likes. With games, you don’t have that much room. What shows up on that screen IS what it IS. There is no room for subjective opinion. You shoot a guy and he either dies or the games is screwed up!! Know what I mean?
I actually dabbled in music for a few years and worked some projects. I still own a record company, a little bitty home brew type deal that hasn’t gone anywhere. Music I know something about. Games, I know only a little about. So don’t quote me on the game stuff. But on the music stuff I’m pretty solid. Have a good sized bookshelf full of music industry books, contracts and other stuff over here.
Either way, the principle of recovering your investment is pretty universal. And both Valve and VU ultimate want a holiday release. Which brings us back full circle: the game just isn’t ready yet. That’s really the only logical conclusion.
I still think Steam has something to do with this though, and not necessarily HL2. If Steam is screwed, so is HL2.
Grimmy_EFG
(Grimmy_EFG)
#117
On the halflife2.net forums Gabe has implied that the 3rd of the source rumour is bollocks… He also stated in his original post that the entire source tree was copied. I’m too lazy to find links atm, but its not hard to find (i think they are linked on the front page of the site).
Grimmy_EFG
(Grimmy_EFG)
#118
I “may or may not” check on that today and see what it “leads me to believe”. If thats the case as well maybe the shots through the window, wonder what happens if someone was to shoot that soldier first.
I am “led to believe” for a FACT that the zombies do NOT move towards you whenever you are doing the rotating blade thing though. They “may or may not” do a small “search” when smacked or shot and then stop.
I’d hate to be a solicitor at law.[/quote]
Remember this is a leaked beta not the final build… Its very plausible that certain bits of the AI were not ready intime for E3 so they were scripted to make it look like it was the AI for the presentations.
I know if I am writing software and have to give an early demo to a client, I make it appear like it is doing what it is supposed to. This is obviously rectified before the final product is released. This is common practice in the software industry.
People need to stop speculating what the final game will be like based on a stolen beta IMO.
chavo_one
(chavo_one)
#119
Fair enough, but I believe that scripting the AI at E3 was risky, foolish business. The level of AI intelligence shown at E3 was unlike anything seen before. Valve is attempting some cutting-edge stuff.
So what happens if they can’t get it right in the end?! The game never gets released? Or they release it in a state unequal to the “faked” demo at E3? And don’t blindly say that Valve can do it. Anyone remember a thing called Enemy Territory Single Player?!
BTW, faking a demo for a customer is called “vaporware” for a reason.
Machine_for_to_kill
(Machine for to kill)
#120
poor valve…they got to hear it from everyone these days…all they wanted to do was make a simple game. A game about a man …and a woman … and an experiment that goes horribly wrong and unleashes waves after waves of aliens into the world…